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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWoman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trumps Motorcade
The picture, snapped by a White House photographer traveling with the president as he left his golf course in Sterling, Va., went viral almost immediately. News outlets picked up the story when it appeared in a White House pool report. Late-night talk show hosts told jokes about the encounter and people on social media began hailing the unidentified woman as a she-ro, using the hashtag #Her2020.
The womans name is Juli Briskman. Her employer, government contractor Akima LLC, wasnt so happy about the photo. They fired her over it.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/woman-flips-off-donald-trump-fired_us_59fe0ab4e4b0c9652fffa484?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004
Zoonart
(11,747 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)VA is a right to work state, I think.
That being said - good for her!
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)that support them. That is usually addressed by state law. The issue you're referring to is "at will" employment, which is the national understanding of employment without contracts.
we can do it
(12,116 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)comes to the terms of employment, I suppose you could argue what you're saying. But the two phrases describe different things and to conflate the two is lazy and incorrect.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)But the fact remains, she most likely will not have a case.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,855 posts)Under the doctrine of employment at will the employer can literally say: I am firing you because I want to. There is no reason.
There is no recourse unless they break some other law, such as discrimination based on race, disability, age, etc.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)idahoblue
(377 posts)Employees can be fired for any reason or no reason. I have known people to be fired because they didn't fit in with the culture.
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)I hate that they get to enjoy the benefits, but don't have to join and pay dues. Why is it that way? Same with teachers here in Michigan. If they don't want to join, why aren't they on their own? That sucks big time.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... "social media policies" are lenient for conservatives who run afoul of the rules, but strictly enforced for liberals. I think she's got a case that should be pursued.
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jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I run a small business, and I am not required to continue to employ someone who I find out is a Nazi.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)But I don't get the disconnect at DU between "Hey, great, some asshole Nazi lost his job" and "Oh, awful, someone with whose politics I agree lost their job".
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/more-nazis-are-getting-identified-and-fired-after-charlottesville_us_599477dbe4b0eef7ad2c0318
At least four people have lost their jobs and several more are under scrutiny following the violent white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend.
MichMan
(11,778 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Duck Show Dude? Fire his ass!
flygal
(3,231 posts)her male co-worker used the pic and called her a fucking libtard and he was reprimanded, deleted the pic and that was that.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)She actually has no one to blame but herself.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)This drives me nuts every time I see it.
The bill of rights is a limit on the government, not you, or your employer, or Bob down the street.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Really they are that upset about that?
BigmanPigman
(51,430 posts)have her on their staff. There is the double standard based on gender AGAIN. She was fired while a male coworker did worse and kept his job. The employer is most likely a fan of the moron in chief.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)...Once potential employers can google your name and find your identity attached to something controversial, many will weigh if hiring you is going to be worth the headache; the boycotts, harassment, etc. that doing so will bring to them.
Might be easier to simply move on to the next applicant; the one that didn't flip off the President of the United States and post the image to their Facebook account.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It seems more like a flash in the pan that everyone will forget after a few days. What about getting the job done?
I'm glad I'm self employed. FFS, how is it productive for a company to pay people to snoop on Facebook?
roamer65
(36,739 posts)Any good employment attorney would have a field day with it.
Any good employment attorney would probably tell her she doesn't have a case.
Employment in Virginia, as in virtually all states, is at-will, meaning that an employer can fire an employee for any reason, or for no reason at all, unless there is a contract term limiting the employer's termination rights, which is rare.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)And so it doesn't go out of context, this would not be a discriminatory reason.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,855 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What really strikes me here is that there is usually rejoicing here at DU when someone is fired after having been outed as a Nazi, etc..
"Political belief" is not some sort of protected status in employment law. Of course, an employer can fire anyone who is not a contracted employee for any reason or no reason, provided it is not a prohibited reason.
geardaddy
(24,924 posts)So many people think it is.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)California, Colorado, New York, North Dakota and Louisiana.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,681 posts)At will state or not - this is a job for the ACLU.
onecent
(6,096 posts)No one's arrested me yet.
SCREW him and all his family@!!
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I applaud her.
On a different note, I do wonder how anyone could be allowed to be alongside a presidential motorcade. I thought they clear the roads of everyone.
onecent
(6,096 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)What a country.
onecent
(6,096 posts)MyOwnPeace
(16,887 posts)somebody would fire the man who made fun of a disabled journalist - oh, wait, THAT'S OUR PRESIDENT!
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-s-worst-offense-mocking-disabled-reporter-poll-finds-n627736
I guess that's not showing "disrespect"...............
riversedge
(69,708 posts)get the red out
(13,458 posts)Makes me ill that employers will fire a person for opinions they express on their own damn time.
phylny
(8,352 posts)Done.
HelenWheels
(2,284 posts)spanone
(135,627 posts)she wasn't at work
she wasn't representing her company
she was expressing her personal political views
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)exist in every state with only small exceptions relating to contracts, appear to apply in this case.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,267 posts)geardaddy
(24,924 posts)but that she can't be arrested for her speech.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)The bill of rights is about a limit ON GOVERNMENT.
(emphasis added)
*sigh* If there's one thing I wish I could get across to the people of DU, it's probably this.
I wish there were a $500 tax credit available for people to take (and pass) an online civics class.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)that apply to them when they work. Read your employee handbook and understand state and federal laws.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,773 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts).. let's say you have a business, and you find out one of your employees was in nazi regalia carrying a swastika and goose stepping while shouting racial slurs. You find this out when his picture and name appear on the front page of a national newspaper.
Are you really telling me that you'd endorse a system that makes you keep employing him, even as you face boycotts, hate mail, crank calls, etc?
Really?
Or would it only magically apply to positions that you hold?
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,773 posts)... leading to the bad will for the company.
But yeah, at that point, in the scenario you provide, I think the ball would be in the employee's court as to why they should not be let go.
And much depends too on the severity of the incident.
Further, the company's policies would have to be enforced evenhandedly. Without male privilege.
Finally, the two situations are not comparable: a finger versus shouted nazi racist slurs.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)You know you'd fire him. As I expected, a 'but, but, but that's diiiiiferent!' response.
Both are protected 'speech'. (Protected from government interference, as the first amendment only applies to the govt.)
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,773 posts)Reread the part where I say that the employee essentially would be fired and have to make a plea to stay on. "ball in their court".
Of course your hypothetical extreme case is different from the actual mild case in front of us.
But at this point further argument from you would seem to stem from a desire to argue since it is likely we both would have kept the woman on (like the man was kept on after his more overt offense linking Akima to "libtards" slur) and likely we would both fire or "let go" the nazi.
Baitball Blogger
(46,570 posts)redwitch
(14,932 posts)And first amendment on the back. I would buy several.
True Dough
(17,090 posts)But she would need the permission for commercial use of the photo. That could be a deal-breaker, unfortunately.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,773 posts)Male colleague made ugly political commentary ("libtards", etc.) in a way that linked it to the company name. He was allowed to erase the post and keep his job.
The woman, Juli Briskman, did not associate the company or company name in any way with her facebook post. She was fired.
Akima LLC aligned itself with Republicon Presidential politics.
Alignment of companies with government politics is a hallmark of fascism.
Firing some for political views & not others is a hallmark of fascism.
riversedge
(69,708 posts)Seems the guys can do it but not the gals.
....Briskman, who worked in marketing and communications at Akima for just over six months, said she emphasized to the executives that she wasnt on the job when the incident happened and that her social media pages dont mention her employer. They told her that because Akima was a government contractor, the photo could hurt their business, she said.
Virginia is an employment-at-will state, meaning employers can fire people anytime and for any reason. But Briskman said whats been particularly infuriating is that a male colleague kept his job after recently posting lewd comments on his Facebook page that featured Akima LLC as his cover photo. She said this colleague was reprimanded for calling someone a fucking Libtard asshole on Facebook, but was allowed to delete the post and keep his job.
How is that any less obscene than me flipping off the president? she asked. How is that fair?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)He didn't. (At the time.)
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)That would at least be fair
True Dough
(17,090 posts)scoops her up based on her tenacity and opposition to a fascist!
JDC
(10,081 posts)turbinetree
(24,631 posts)according to the FEC filings it was for $100.00, but still they gave $100.00 dollars.
http://docquery.fec.gov/pres/2016/30G/C00580100/A_EMPLOYER_C00580100.html
This is what the sexual predator said and did on a tape........................
Your double standard should be called out, you donated to a man that said and did this to a woman......................as some conquest of a joke, bravado or some malignant accomplishment...............
So what is your profile there Akima LLC, I mean what is your Business Ethics and Code of Conduct ---------------supporting a sexual predator of women...................you gave him and his organization $100.00 to condone his actions, while he was out in public, after all $100.00 is nothing when it comes to woman, and there rights to be protected ----------right
So now---------Akima, you have been granted judge , jury and executioner for actions while someone is in public , why didn't you hold those same "values" to a asshole that bragged about attacking women, so she expressed her personnel values
If I see the asshole in public and give him the big finger and big shout out to go fuck himself, do you think I should lose my benefits?
mn9driver
(4,412 posts)That is all.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,384 posts)The support people get, the connections, the romances that are born from it. I've had a lot of very positive but that's also because I put positive into it, not negative.
progressoid
(49,824 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)that's how it usually works
ffr
(22,644 posts)Deplorable behavior on their behalf.
Boycott.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Or occupation - whatever she does, there are likely more employers that would hire her because of her action.
Gothmog
(143,998 posts)This lady needs to find another job