What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer.

[Cattledog]

When the world looks at the United States, it sees a land of exceptions: a time-tested if noisy democracy, a crusader in foreign policy, an exporter of beloved music and film.

But there is one quirk that consistently puzzles America’s fans and critics alike. Why, they ask, does it experience so many mass shootings?

Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.

These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

Read the article at:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

[exboyfil]

1. No. It is taking prayer out

Of school.silly.

[malaise]

2. Duh!

The more guns, the more deaths by guns

[EX500rider]

4. Actually the facts don't really support that argument:

[Cattledog]

5. Did you not see the words "Mass shootings"?

You really need to read the entire article.

"Adjusted for population, only Yemen has a higher rate of mass shootings among countries with more than 10 million people.Yemen has the world’s second-highest rate of gun ownership after the United States."

[EX500rider]

8. The words i responded to were:

"The more guns, the more deaths by guns"

Don't see the words "mass shooting" in that sentence.

[brush]

13. It's obviously implied. The OP is on mass killings.

[Cattledog]

16. "GunFacts" is a major NRA propaganda site, so I take their stats with a grain of salt.

[EX500rider]

23. It's easy enough to cross reference..

.....gun ownership by country Vs homicide rates per country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

[AllyCat]

33. But then one has to look at who wrote the Wikipedia article.

That could be anyone.

[EX500rider]

34. The graft I posted has the source material listed in the footnotes.

And the Wiki pages also list the source. Kinda hard to fudge the data when you do that and not be noticed.
What is exactly is the argument here, that the US has less firearms then they say or more homicides?

[Crunchy Frog]

22. In developed industrialized countries with more or less stable governments

That correlation would appear to hold.

[EX500rider]

25. Doesn't seem so to me:

US homicide rate per 100,000:4.8
European homicide rate per 100,00:3

Yet the US gun ownership is much greater per capita.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Can you cherry pick a few EU states that have a lower rate? Yes but you can do that for the US also, Maine's rate is 1.7 and is bigger then Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state

[GeoWilliam750]

30. Your data of 3 homicides per 100,000 for Europe

Only works because you include Russia, which has a murder rate of 11.31 and a large population. It accounts for two thirds of the murders in what is nominally referred to as "Europe".

Several former Soviet states also have rates above 2 per 100,000 (with only Lithuania higher than the US). Outside of these, there are two countries, Albania (2.28) and Montenegro (2.72), with rates of greater than 2 per 100,000. Then there are only two more above 1.6/100,000 - Belgium (1.98) and Bulgaria (1.80).

The countries that make up the bulk of European population generally have rates below 1/100,000, less than a fifth of the US.

0.85 Germany
0.66 Spain
0.92 UK
0.78 Italy
0.74 Poland
0.51 Austria
0.69 Switzerland
0.85 Greece

1.58 France - The violent place in (non-former Soviet) Europe, less than a third of the homicide rate of the US.

[brush]

9. Yep, can't get any simpler than that.

[BigmanPigman]

3. American men love their guns, that is the answer.

[aikoaiko]

6. Except that gun ownership rates among Americans are historically low.

Yes, we have a lot of guns in our society, but they are in the hands of fewer and fewer Americans.

Only about 30-35% of households nationally have firearms according to self-reports (granted which may be due to underreporting).

Almost all of these mass shooters are using only 1 - 3 guns to commit their crimes (the LV shooting is a notable exception). Having 10, 30, 100 ARs isn't relevant to mass shootings.

If its true that mass shootings are increasing and gun ownership rates are decreasing, then the NYT is full of shit.

Something else is going on.

[brush]

11. IMO nothing else is going on. Those who get/have access to guns are the demographic segment...

from which the mass killers come.

Guns get used by those who have them. Here it's often for mass killings.

[aikoaiko]

14. So you're saying that a type of person who didn't own guns in the past are now buying guns...

...and that's why we've seen a so many mass killings?

Other than the fact they end up killing more than 4 people at a time, what else defines them that didn't exist in the past?

Actually, guns are rarely used for mass killings, but most mass killers use guns.

[brush]

15. That's what you're saying.

[aikoaiko]

17. Yes, because more people had guns in the past but there were fewer mass shootings.

[brush]

18. More people had guns in the past? You'd better research that.

[aikoaiko]

29. Its common knowledge among people who discuss gun control.

But here you go:
[IMG][/IMG]

[brush]

36. Seems flawed. Millions more people now, millions more guns, millions more with multiple guns.

Last edited Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:37 PM - Edit history (2)

Millions of those guns being semi automatic/full automatic with large capacity magazines so by any logic that

means some of those millions of guns end up in the hands of people who shouldn't have them—thus more

mass killing with guns by those who shouldn't have them.

After all these mass killings here with no action taken on gun control, all we have to do is compare our country's non-action to Australia's decisive action to get rid of so many guns in it's society in the late '90s and it's subsequent sharp decline of gun deaths/mass killings.

It's painfully clear that we have way too many guns in our society with little control over who has/gets access to them.

Come on, automatic weapons and semi-automatic easily converted to full automatic easily accessed by who knows who or when or where — that is beyond insanity.

Our society is sick and too many make excuses for continuing with this insanity with just thoughts and prayers instead of taking effective action like Australia, a society very similar to ours, did.

[Yavin4]

7. Being uncompromisingly pro-gun White working class support for Republicans

which then leads to mass shootings. End of story.

[handmade34]

10. number of guns

easy access to guns, socioeconomic inequality, lack of good health care, money in politics, stupid U.S. Citizen immature attitude of "we're #1" and a whole lot of Republicans... that's my explanation for U.S. Mass Shootings

[Kingofalldems]

12. Gimme my guns!---the gunners creed.

[Initech]

19. There's more guns than people in this country. Is anyone really surprised?

[Duncan Grant]

20. I dont own weapons. Whats their appeal?

As an outsider to gun culture, I struggle to understand what motivates people to spend their money on the things. Is it prestige? masculinity? collectibility? necessity? What kind of marketing is necessary to sell the things?

My hunch is - people who buy automatic weapons (or their variants) fantasize about the idea of eventually using them (for situations other than target practice). A really creepy “hobby”, imho.

[Bucky]

24. To be honest, target shooting is fun

Lots of families and ordinary friends bond over hunting. We can have these things and still not have mass murders.

[smirkymonkey]

31. I agree with you completely. I really can't understand the obsession.

People will say that it's fun to hunt or target shoot, but so what? A lot of things are "fun". Why is someone's right to have fun more important than the rights of others to live in a society where we don't have almost weekly mass shootings?

[loyalsister]

37. I don't get it either

I think some people must be very afraid. The possibility that someone would want to hurt or kill me is not something I think about. Aside from the fact that I have the safety of white skin, I have never been in a situation or environment where I saw other people as a threat.
I can see where experience would shape expectations. At the same time I fear is widely and cynically used to manipulate people in the US. I see that as unhealthy.

[lagomorph777]

21. Gee what a surprise.

[Not Ruth]

26. I question the numbers

For instance, does Mexico have less mass killings than the US?

I doubt it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-mexicos-2016-murder-tally-exceeds-those-of-many-countries-at-war-study-2017-5

[klook]

27. The article you linked to says nothing about mass shootings.

The article referenced in the OP is about mass shootings. There are a great many murders by firearm in Mexico, but neither article indicates that the likelihood of mass shootings in Mexico is anywhere near what it is in the U.S.

[Not Ruth]

35. Mexico has about 23k homicides a year and that is considered under reporting

The US has about 17k homicides a year for a vastly larger population.

Figure that even if the percentage of those being mass anything is similar, that Mexico has the higher number. Simple math.

[klook]

38. Mass shootings

is the topic. How do you propose to reduce the incidence of mass shootings in the U.S.?

[Not Ruth]

39. You think that they do not have mass shootings in MX?

I define a mass shooting as shooting at 2 or more people. And I believe that the stats are wrong if they rank US at the top,

[klook]

40. Youre trying to change the subject - Why?

FBI defines “mass shooting” as 4 or more indiscriminately selected victims, not including the perpetrator. You can look it up.

If your beef is with the author of the study quoted in the OP, you could try refuting that research, I suppose.

But if you don’t even want to discuss how to prevent mass shootings in the United States, maybe you’re in the wrong thread.

And I’ve spent way too much energy already addressing your attempted distractions. So good night.

[Not Ruth]

41. As the FBI does not defines mass shooting, I question the credibility of your narrative

As well as the global statistics

http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/article/The-definition-of-mass-shooting-complicates-12252321.php

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/04/the-squishy-definition-of-mass-shooting-complicates-media-coverage/

[Skittles]

28. why are there so many gun humping cowards in the "home of the brave"?

[MyNameGoesHere]

32. Nah, that ain't it.

We have the dumbest fucking bunch of idiots in the world. Yeah that's it.