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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhere do kids learn to undervalue women? From their parents.
Even progressive spouses dont divide burdens equitably. The children notice.
By Darcy Lockman November 10
Darcy Lockman, a psychologist in New York City, is at work on a book about the gendered division of labor in childcare.
With good reason, much of the concern about misogyny is currently focused on the workplace. As the #MeToo testimonials have shown, the professional world all too frequently tasks women with silent endurance of morally unacceptable (or downright criminal) behavior. But even those of us who have avoided the most abusive workplaces live with malignant gender dynamics in our homes and risk passing them on to our children.
Study after study shows that, among heterosexual parents, fathers even the youngest and most theoretically progressive among them do not partake generously of the workload at home. Employed women partnered with employed men carry 65 percent of the familys child-care responsibilities, a figure that has held steady since the turn of the century. Women with babies enjoy half as much leisure time on weekends as their husbands. Working mothers with preschool-age children are 2 1/2 times as likely to perform middle-of-the-night care as their husbands. And in hours not so easily tallied, mothers remain almost solely in charge of the endless managerial care that comes with raising children: securing babysitters, filling out school forms, sorting through hand-me-downs.
For the past year, Ive been interviewing mothers who work outside the home for a book about their experiences raising children with men. Too often, although not always, I hear some version of the story a woman in Portland, Ore., told me: Hes great with the kids, and from friends I talk to, my husband does a lot more. But hes on his phone or computer while Im running around like a crazy person getting the kids stuff, doing the laundry. He has his coffee in the morning reading his phone while Im packing lunches, getting our daughters clothes out, helping our son with his homework. He just sits there. He doesnt do it on purpose. He has no awareness of whats happening around him. I ask him about it and he gets defensive. Its the same in the evening. He helps with dinner, but then Im off to doing tooth-brushing and bedtime, and hell be sitting there on his phone.
Empirical research shows that no domestic arrangement, not even one in which the mother works full time and the father is unemployed, results in child-care parity between heterosexual spouses. The story we tell ourselves, the one about great leaps toward the achievement of gender equality between parents, is a glass-half-full kind of interpretation. But the reality is a half-empty glass: While modern men and women espouse egalitarian ideals and report that their decisions are mutual, outcomes tend to favor fathers needs and goals much more than mothers.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/where-do-kids-learn-to-undervalue-women-from-their-parents/2017/11/10/724518b2-c439-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Account for mowing the lawn,household maintenance, car repair., trimming the hedges...
vi5
(13,305 posts)those things aren't things that have to be done on a daily or in most cases even weekly basis. Most cars aren't breaking down every week or even every month. Most houses don't need repairs every week. In most places lawn and hedge maintenance is seasonal, and also nowhere near on the priority level of eating and cleaning and washing clothes and/or driving kids around. The things these studies focus on are things that will impact all members of the household equally if they aren't done.
Also, anecdotal but most of the husbands/fathers I know who don't do any of the other things that these studies include (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc.) also aren't doing their own car and home repairs and are the first person to be calling someone when those things need fixing.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)I always have some kind of maintenance to tend to and its always more labor intensive than laundry.
Which I also do,btw.
Its a bias and it devalues traditionally male labor.
vi5
(13,305 posts)What maintenance do you do every day in the same way that cooking/preparing food needs to be done every day? What maintenance is as regular an occurrence as needing to drive kids to and from school/activities/etc.? I'm absolutely not saying there's not something of some regularity but unless I have a burst pipe or a broken heat/ac unit or an electrical short or something, none of it is a regular occurrence unless I choose to prioritize it as such.
And as I edited my above post to include, I'm fairly rare at least in my area in that I do all the general "domestic" stuff, AND i fix my own house and cars and do my own yard work. I'd say about 75% of the families with 2 working parents in my area and circle take their cars to mechanics and hire plumbers/electricians/etc. to do their work. And that's not even getting into the fact that a lot of them also hire people to do their yards (probably not up in the 75% range but still a lot more than hire someone to do their cooking and cleaning.
I don't entirely disagree with your point, I do think that needs to be factored in to some degree. And I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of this is also different depending on region/culture, etc. But at least from all the people I know and work with, in an area where almost every family is a 2 working parent household, it's definitely not an apples to apples comparison. But yeah, I do see the point and think that some of that stuff can be factored in a little bit.
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)I'll bet the woman does most of the calling & scheduling.
My hubby will ask "when are you going to get someone to take care of that?"
I swear.
Most all of our fights have been about the division of tasks.
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)about besides the actual housework, there is a mental load of keeping track of everything. The woman is the one who keeps track of most of domestic life. When Johnny has to be at violin practice, remember to call the plumber, buy a BD present for hubby's mother, & on & on & on. In most households, that really is on the woman. And a lot of us just take it on, because that's what our mothers did. It's a cycle, but maybe through education, we can break it. It's why the GOP hates education so much. It elevates & enlightens. Things they are against.
Always good to see you!
Duppers
(28,120 posts)I've had to handle most all the negotiations with contractors too.
I feel as if I'm a housekeeper, cook, shopper, mother, an administrative assistant, etc. But he does get paid the bucks, so I must not complain. I just would like more acknowledgment from him, friends, and family of my workload. I've one friend whose husband even plunges the toilet for her! Yes, my mouth opened too. So there are a few of those types but not here.
Good to see you too.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)I'm a single father with two teenage girls.
I do all the inside and outside chores as they're focused on studies and activities. Essentially, I do both roles in the house that a husband and wife would do.
The chores I detest? The outside ones like mowing the lawn, taking care of all that's out there, and the repairs within the house and other similar things. They're definitely labor intensive and draining. A good sized lawn can take a couple of hours every weekend to maintain and keep right with what needs to be done.
I'd far rather be cooking, doing laundry, and other chores. Well, I do those chores too. But I'd rather JUST do those chores than all the others.
Arkansas Granny
(31,515 posts)you are responsible for all the chores. I did the yard work, the laundry, the cooking, the cleaning, etc. I also attended parent teacher meetings, doctor and dentist appointments and every school function where the kids were involved.
As a result, out of necessity, as the kids got older, they were expected to take over some of these chores. Since we had an equal opportunity household, we rotated these chores regardless which gender they were usually associated with.
I believe those experiences have had an effect on their lives today and their relationships with their spouses and what they have passed on to their own children.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)I've been trying to do the same with my younger daughter but it's been a struggle with my older because she has some serious crippling anxiety issues and is prone to quick breakdowns. So I have to walk on eggshells around that.
As much as the single parent thing sucks, there's also the real treasure and joy in knowing that you were there for so much of it and showed a good example to your kids of what to do and be like that it makes a huge difference.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)the article? I don't know, I didn't read them so, I'm just asking.
cally
(21,593 posts)don't kid yourself and read academic studies showing women spend hours more on household labor
spooky3
(34,439 posts)accounted for those tasks, the omission would be so glaring the articles would never get through peer review.
xmas74
(29,674 posts)And I know in plenty of other families it's not dad but the kids who do the yard work. Most auto work nowadays is at a shop between the amount of computerized work and many neighborhoods no longer allow work in the driveway. And many moms do the home maintenance or at least assist.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)And hired someone to cut the grass.
My hubs is so damn old school that he has never touched the washing machine! I'm not kidding. He does take the cars in for maintenance tho.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)that you are so locked into stereotypes that you don't think women do those things as well.
vi5
(13,305 posts)...is way too many. Especially where I live, a progressive blue state where every parent seems to work.
My wife's job is way more stressful and time consuming than mine so I do all the laundry, all the cooking every night, a lot of the cleaning, and all of the shuttling around of my kids to and from school and all activities. I do it because 1) That stuff needs to get done and I like doing it, but 2)I think it's important that after a long and tough week of work and at the end of a hard day that my wife gets to focus on spending quality time with our kids and/or relaxing so she's not stressed when she is with the kids.
But yeah, even where we are, even with as many working moms as there are I'm still usually the only dad at any of the daytime events (even though my wife does also make a great effort to be at as many important events as she can).
And I think this does affect my kids in a positive way. My daughter is 16 and a super motivated student and a strong, independent woman who takes crap from nobody. And my son is 11 and super socially conscious about anything he sees that reeks of stereotypical or sexist gender roles.
I definitely know that things are tough out there for all working parents. But there's no excuse for men not doing their share of the work around the house. And I don't just mean yardwork.
GreenEyedLefty
(2,073 posts)and who happens to make 3x what I do. So I don't get on him to be 50/50 with the household stuff.
The parenting gig has gotten easier with my youngest being 14 now. He hasn't exhibited any disrespect toward me; in fact, he cheerfully helps me out and offers to do some of the household stuff. My daughter, 17, is a lot like your daughter. Very strong and independent and a great student.
The house isn't as clean as it was when I stayed home, but that's a function of time and priorities, not so much laziness. I'd much rather sleep in on weekends and attend my kids' events after work than clean and cook.
Someday, sooner than we want it to be, the kids will be on their own and we will have all the time in the world to clean and maintain.
vi5
(13,305 posts)...I should have been clearer that I'm not making it out as though my situation is possible in all scenarios (or that it makes me some kind of saint.....I definitely have my lazy moments. ). For the first 15 years of our marriage/family I just had the more flexible job (days working from home, shorter commute, earlier hours, etc.) and it just worked out that way. But my brother and his wife are more in line with what you are talking about and he's a good dad, involved, etc. Just doesn't have as much free time or job flexibility.
Of course they also make enough to afford someone to do their yard work, clean the house, and get take out food way more frequently than we can/do.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)And lots of studies indicate that parents are influential mostly genetically, and that cultural influences of relatives, friends, teachers, media, etc. account for much more than parental cultural influence.
The recent behavior of men towards women seem quite consistent with internet videos, games, etc.
Most of the examples we're seeing now are from men who are well above the age of having had the internet or video games be any influence in their lives.
And I'm in my late 40's and well past the age where either of those things were part of any formative experience, and I would not say women were treated with respect and highly valued as equal contributors when I was growing up, well before the internet and video games were there (I don't think Pong or Space Invaders really had an impact on gender norms).
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)You think this all just started happening in the last 20 years?
vi5
(13,305 posts)...until they started watching those internet videos.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)You do realize that most of the people who have been identified are older than the internet or these video games you cite. What video game influenced Bill Cosby when he was assaulting women in the 70s and early 80s? Pong?
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)tymorial
(3,433 posts)Tells me everything I need to know.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)that my neighbor was changing the oil in her car and her husband's pickup. Her two daughters were helping her.
She is a nurse and works a full schedule (which is always changing) and is sometimes called in for emergencies. Her husband works retail and usually works less than 32 hours a week. He is a hunter so spends a lot of time and money out trying to shoot some bird or animal.
This means that my neighbor's mother or mother-in-law or her sister often step up to pick up the girls from school or take them to soccer practice or whatever needs doing. On occasion the girls have spent a few hours at my house in my She Shack doing crafty things when her female relatives are not available.
So, I went over to chat with her and to compliment her on her mechanical skills and willingness to do that dirty job. During our exchange she commented that her husband was inside watching a football game.
Although I thought it I refrained from telling her that what she really needs is a wife.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)But we were never in doubt who was the real boss lol.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)He would cook on occasion, and he was a wonderful dad and husband.
But mom was the multi-tasker, doing everything every day.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)but even there, my mother had veto power if my dad wanted to do something my mother didn't approve of.
Yes indeed!
Though he used to let us play paratrooper jumping out of the back of the old Mercury station wagon on a dirt road out in the country while he drove slowly. That was a secret.
Oh boy, when she found out...
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)One of the things that endeared me to Prince William after his marriage to Kate, is that she took the wheel as they drove away.
I loved that.
kimbutgar
(21,130 posts)But if we are in downtown traffic in San Francisco hell ask me to take the wheel. Because its crazy and confusing and he has no patience.
Nay
(12,051 posts)slow), and 2) it's one of the few chores you can get men to do. For the wives, it's a rare time when they don't have to be 'on.'
kimbutgar
(21,130 posts)It was split pretty equally girl/boy. We had a discussion topic about should girls be able to join the Boy Scouts. Some of the boys responses shocked me. One said, no girls should stay only in Girl Scouts where they can learn to cook and sew . There was a group of 4 boys who were definitely little male chauvinists at 10-11 years old. The conversation started to get heated and I had to cut it off for lunch recess. When they came back several of them wanted to continue this discussion but I had a lesson plan to follow. In the last 10 minutes of the day we returned to the topic until the dismissal bell rang. Some of the responses were really interesting. But you could tell they heard about male /female roles from their home lifes.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)My wife does way more than I do and no my fixing things around the house does not make up for it.
It is compounded by the fact I work second shift which we all know is fondly referred to as the divorce shift