Washington has always been a sexist misogynistic town

[question everything]

Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Still bugs me that Favreau did not lose his job after "cupping" Hillary's cutout breast.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/12/favreaus-sexist-photo-is-no-laughing-matter

By Dee Dee Myers, who was Clinton Press Secretary



(snip)

The incident I’m talking about, of course, is the photo of Jon Favreau, Barack Obama’s 27-year-old wunderkind speechwriter, with his hand on a cardboard cutout of Hillary Clinton’s chest. See above. Yes, that’s the wunderkind on the left; on the right, is an as-yet- unidentified member of the “Obama staff.” Charming.

I can’t stop thinking about this picture, and I confess I find it really upsetting. And, no, it’s not because I don’t have a sense of humor. I like to think I have a well-earned reputation for often irreverent, sometimes ill-advised humor. But I’m not laughing now.And it’s not that I was never young. My friends from college and in the years just beyond can testify that I did some things then that I wouldn’t want to see on the Internet now. But I had a big job in the White House at a young age too; at 31—just a few years older than Favreau is now—I became White House press secretary. And I knew instantly that the rules had changed for me, that I could no longer go to all the parties of the people just a little younger than me, who had just a little less responsibility, and expect to be anonymous. Clearly, Favreau should have understood that too. If he’s old enough and wise enough and mature enough to write for the president of the United States—and not just any president but one who seems poised to take words more seriously than any since Abraham Lincoln—than he’s clearly old enough and wise enough and mature enough to avoid getting his picture taken behaving in a way that is embarrassing to him, his boss, the secretary of state–designate, his family, and, one hopes, a majority of 27-year-old males (though that may be too optimistic.) It’s indefensible. But that’s still not what’s bugging me.

What’s bugging me is his intention. He isn’t putting his hand on her “chest,” as most of the articles and conversations about the picture have euphemistically referred to it. Rather, his hand—cupped just so—is clearly intended to signal that he’s groping her breast. And why? Surely, not to signal he finds her attractive. Au contraire. It’s an act of deliberate humiliation. Of disempowerment. Of denigration.

[Merlot]

1. You're right, it is a horrible and disturbing picture.

I agree he should have lost his job for this picture.

[Denzil_DC]

2. This is another example of people seeing different things in the same photo.

I just saw some fratty, likely drunken, behaviour at a celebration, with the cardboard cutout being held upright by Favreau's hand. Worth an eyeroll maybe, not much more

I never saw it as Favreau cupping Hillary's (cutout's) breast. For one thing, I doubt Hillary's real breast is where his hand is on the cutout, as it's more toward her arm/shoulder (I'm sure this is a rehash of long and old arguments, and I dont want to open old wounds). His hand isn't pressed hard against it because it's light in weight and it doesn't take much pressure to support it, so his fingers are naturally curved because they're relaxed, as mine are if I rest them on or against something.

The dude in the cap kissing the cutout and feeding the beer bottle (to its nose?) always struck me as more potentially offensive.

There's maybe more to the argument that Favreau shouldn't have been aiding and abetting the other dude, but it's easy to look at the photo in hindsight and say it was ill advised and undignified for someone looking to take a job in the administration when at the time I'd guess it was just a lighthearted moment for them and the photographer after a stressful campaign.

But then the context of the period was very high feelings and resentment between some in the Obama and Clinton camps, so there's more than just a photo going on here and how people saw it at the time, and see and think of it now.

[question everything]

7. It is unfortunate that you try to use anatomy to explain that the curled fingres

are not aimed at her breast. So what, they may be aimed at a mole that he thinks needs examined.

The purpose was to humiliate and this is what Franken ended up doing.

Several years ago, while the TV program "Mad Men" was on, I've met several women who worked in offices during the 60s and they remembered men walking around them with their curled fingers pretending to turn knobs. No they never touched them, but the meaning was clear. To belittle the women in the office, to show what their stand was.

I will go flat out and declare that any man walking around with curled fingers aiming at a woman has one thought - humiliate and denigrate.

(Unless the fingers are deformed...)

[Denzil_DC]

9. My fingers curl naturally when at rest or not trying to actively press against something.

I just tried it again as an experiment - sure enough, it's what they do.

No woman in sight at the moment. Fancy that. There will be shortly, and I don't expect any different result then.

I can't deny my anatomy, which I believe is shared by most relatively fortunate human beings, male or female.

Nor can I deny the honestly expressed evidence of my own eyes, nor my acknowledgment of the context of the photo, which charges some people's perceptions.

What I seem to be unable to do is mindread. On that, you seem to have the upper hand.

I think your reply is a massive stretch, but whatever. If your fingers apparently work differently to mine, I sympathize, but it's not my problem.

[TheFrenchRazor]

11. so what was he doing? giving Hillary a hug out of solidarity? THAT'S a massive stretch. nt

[Denzil_DC]

12. No idea.

Having a drink and relaxing with a bud and a campaign prop and having his photo taken as far as I can tell.

[TheFrenchRazor]

10. nice try. it's obvious what's going on in that picture, but hey, it was a "joke," so it's all good.

NOT.

[Denzil_DC]

13. You should go on the stage with that act.

I pointed out what can be behind different people's perceptions - about Franken or Favreau, Tweedy or whoever. If that's not good enough for you, I can't do any more.

[JI7]

3. should have lost his job ? he is a better person today and said that was wrong

[DesertRat]

4. That photo is really disturbing

[FarCenter]

5. Washington DC has a large number of young single women compared with young single men

It also has a large number of older single men.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. This country has always been a sexist misogynistic country.

The problem is bigger than one industry, institution or geographic area.

[Kirk Lover]

8. Yes..this. And it's certainly not confined to this country.