Clinton/Lewinsky was consensual and adult. NOT equivalent.

[lindysalsagal]

I want to yell at the tv when Clinton is listed among predators: He did not strong-arm Monika. That's why he didn't deserve impeachment.

That's why I never cared one wit about it. No victim.

[hamsterjill]

1. Thank you!

Yes, there IS a difference!

[Canoe52]

62. Monica was quoted by her friends from back home

that she was taking her knee pads with her to Washington...

[oasis]

86. "I'm going to the White House to get my presidential knee pads"

[Canoe52]

88. I stand corrected!

Always better to get the correct quote, in this case,
much better

[oasis]

91. Our message is essentially the same. That's what matters.

[dpd3672]

2. They were both adults

but I don't think you can argue that POTUS isn't a "position of authority." And for the record, he wasn't impeached for screwing an intern, he was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice.

[Demsrule86]

10. He should not have been impeached nor hounded by Republicans either.

Fuck Republicans. A political motivated house impeached Pres. Clinton...their fearless leader at the time was Gingrich who was screwing his own intern...so spare me the BS please. And Bill Clinton was acquitted in the Senate which means he was found 'not guilty' by the Senate...and the next election cost the GOP the House and Senate-Gingrich resigned...think about that all of you calling for the impeachment of Trump without the votes needed either for an impeachment or a conviction. But spare me the high minded BS. We are Democrats and should not engage in trashing our own even before we know what happened.

[Corvo Bianco]

104. I think you're right.

[Demsrule86]

113. Every Democratic president is never allowed to govern...and we need to punish the GOP for this

behavior when we get the House back ...no deals to pull their fat out of the fire.

[Cary]

11. For the record

Impeached is a political action, not a criminal action. Clinton was impeached by political hacks, straight across party lines.

He lied in a civil deposition in a case that was already deemed to be frivolous about a matter that was deemed to be irrelevant.

If you're going to be accurate then be accurate. I also don't recall any obstruction of justice.

[dpd3672]

15. Perjury and Obstruction of Justice

I'm not litigating the case, just repeating the factual elements. He was impeached on 2 charges, perjury and obstruction of justice. Politically motivated or not, that's the facts of the case. Lying under oath is perjury, the subjective "seriousness" of the case is irrelevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

[Cicada]

29. Well lying under oath is not always perjury

The lie must be about something “material.” Material means that it might influence the decision of the decision maker in the matter. In the Paula Jones lawsuit a pattern of sex with women subordinate to him might influence the decision about whether he harassed Paula. So Clinton probably did commit perjury.

But of course all or almost all Presidents break the law. It would not be wise to jail all Presidents who commit crimes.

[dpd3672]

31. Maybe not

But in this case, it was, so your statement isn't really relevant.

[Cary]

49. And your statement isn't accurate.

[stevenleser]

63. Cicada is slightly incorrect. There is no pattern. Jones alleged non-consensual acts.

Therefore having a consensual relationship is not material. Thus no perjury.

[Cary]

48. There's nothing to litigate

As I said this wasn't litigation. It's Articles of Impeachment drawn up straight across party lines. In other words it was a political hatchet job, and as it turned out a frivolous political hatchet job.

It's not good to lie under oath in a civil deposition but as an attorney who has attended perhaps a thousand or so of these things it's also not unusual for people to lie in them. It's very common, and very rarely are there any consequences.

It's true that you will not get far with that defense if you're caught, for example, running a red light. It's irrelevant how many people did the same thing and didn't get stopped. But you are overstating things a bit.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. It's called a hostile work environment when the boss is having sex with the underlings...

consentual or not!!!

[Sienna86]

3. He held a position of power.

Not good. Add that to other allegations of women. We can't ignore the problem when it is a Democrat.

[dpd3672]

6. I agree

I can't say this enough...it isn't a Democrat/Republican thing. It's a "douchebag abusing his position" thing, and it's not limited to left/right, or even male/female.

It's a character flaw, which seems to correlate strongly with the aggressive personality traits that cause people to seek and attain higher positions in companies, politics, sports, etc.

[RKP5637]

52. It's the same thing many CEOs and others do. Many in high positions are also

sociopaths, that's how they got there. Sociopaths do quite well in a country like the US and others. We have one for a president now.

[Demsrule86]

7. I have no intention of playing into GOP hands by attacking Democrats...join in if you wish.

But I see no point to doing this.

[janterry]

8. If it's the CEO and a college intern

it's the fault of the CEO.

[Cicada]

25. Lewinsky planned to have sex with Clinton before her work started. She initiated it.

She said she was going to take her knee pads to the White House before she went to Washington. Clinton did not use his power over her to induce her having sex with her. In fact she seduced him, as she had planned to do before she got to the White House.

[RobinA]

58. I Couldn't Agree More

and it drives me CRAZY when people act like Lewinsky was the poor victimized intern. I find it downright misogynistic to deny that she had she had agency in that episode. Basically, it's saying that the females can't possibly know what they are doing nor make their own decisions in sexual matters. Also, it demonstrates a laughable misunderstanding of women. Monica went big game hunting and she got her man, apparently with a flick of her thong. He had the power? Not bloody likely. Hell, she even kept a trophy.

[mythology]

60. And that somehow obligated him to have sex with her?

As the boss he should have said no.

[Cicada]

89. His obligation as a boss does not turn their sex into harrassment

But rather than deflect your disapproval of my response I am foolishly going to make my position even worse in your eyes. Virtually every great leader has had mistresses. A long time usher in the White House who left during the Nixon years said that he knew for a fact that every President for decades had sex outside their marriage with only one exception: Nixon. My mom thought Nixon went boating with BeBe Rebozo to have sex with him. Maybe making life pleasant for leaders makes them happier and more productive. That strikes me as likely. I do not want them grumpy from sexual frustration. So I believe we should adopt the Byzantine policy of a civil service harem. The president could hire women or men for that service. No scandals, no blackmail, no grumpy presidents, less need for Presidents to harass those working for him or her. I am serious.

[brewens]

66. Roger that. It was still stupid of Bill to have sex with her. She had problems that he didn't

need to get involved with. As far as "cheating" on Hillary, no telling how much of a real wrong that may have been. In the case of things just no longer happening with a married couple, if that were the case, I don't have any problem with either one doing what they need to do with another consenting adult. You are leaving yourself wide open for trouble in a position like theirs though.

One year at my high school reunion, when my out of town girlfriend didn't want to come, there was an old high school girlfriend there that made it clear she would be open to having some fun. I tried to talk myself into it, thinking why not, it was kind of just for that night and old times sake between good friends? It honestly wouldn't have changed a thing in our relationship except I would know and feel guilty. Some guys are just like that.

I really have never even so much as kissed another girl or woman in a situation where I even had a prospect I had dated even once. That wouldn't really be out of line. Like after one date where nothing happened, encountering another attractive woman that was interested. I can't say I never would have, but it never happened to me like that. Of course you only get other attractive women hitting on you after you're already involved with another! It's like some kind of unwritten law!

[jrthin]

68. Totally agree.

[m-lekktor]

28. exactly! thank you. nt

[R B Garr]

53. Lewinsky said she flashed her thong at him. nt

[Orsino]

57. This is perhaps the most important point.

That he ignored his responsibility as boss speaks horribly of his judgment, and calls into question the "consensual" claim we eagerly accepted.

[Hekate]

95. Except Monica was an adventurous young woman, age 21, who told her friends back home that...

...she was excited about getting this WH internship because she "was going to get her presidential knee-pads." Then she initiated the "relationship" by flashing her thong at the president.

They were both foolish. They both got a lot more than they had bargained for. But predator and victim? I think not.

[Honeycombe8]

120. SHE was the instigator of it. It is not harassment or abuse of power, when she seeks the man out.

Note the difference.

That's not why he was impeached, you may recall. He was never accused of or found guilty of abuse of power or harassment.

[imanamerican63]

4. I agree!

But, it was at a time when the Clintons were under scrutiny for anything they did! The GOP made this in a scandal.

[Demsrule86]

5. They were adults. It wasn't smart to do that at a workplace though. That being said, it was not the

business of Congress...two consenting adults.

[hexola]

9. Monica was the vicitim since she was unwillingly outed - abuse or not.

Her life was destroyed by the revelations about her and Clinton...

Without Whitewater - we might have never known about Ms Lewinsky.

She was "raped" by the media and the right wing.

[sarah FAILIN]

19. Very few victims

Keep the dirty evidence of their deeds sealed in a zip lock bag while going about business as usual. Monica was a participant on both teams.

[whathehell]

26. Linda Tripp urged her to save the dress

something Ms. Tripp readily admitted.

[sarah FAILIN]

38. She still did it.

I have zero sympathy for her.

[whathehell]

87. So what? Billl had at least as much responsibility for the affair as she

[]and he denied it happened...Had she not had evidence, she wouldn't have been believed, and would have been labeled a liar and a "slut"...Screw that. Yes, she was (barely) of age but, beyond
being almost Thirty years older than her he was married, and..oh yeah, President of the United States. I have no sympathy for Him
.

[MaryMagdaline]

105. Monica stood up to immense pressure

She was locked up with FBI and never turned on Clinton. She had real feelings for him. She also had guts. As crazy as she was to pursue a president, like some political groupie, I believe she is a good person. She kept the dress for fun, not blackmail. A little creepy for sure, but definitely not malicious. I do have sympathy for her. She was toast. Something that we all could have told her ahead of time, but sad to see it happen even when expected.

[kydo]

12. What about Newt?

If the same standard was applied to Newt that people have applied Bill. Newt would have been in that barrel with Bill. He WAS NOT!!!

Hell, for that matter we would just a handful of men in Congress and government. Orange idiot would NEVER had been able to run much less be sitting in the Oval Office.

This whole thing is just sickening.

[BeyondGeography]

13. Bill was an embarrassment on the impulse control front

And that’s the best you can say if you believe all of his accusers were liars.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

103. I don't know how anyone can countenance Bill's bad behavior.

[Worktodo]

14. Historical context is more important

The people that wanted to impeach Clinton were the same ones I yelled at on the TV during the Clarence Thomas hearings. It was very difficult to see Clinton’s impeachment than anything other than a last ditch effort to justify a hundred million dollar investigation and take down a political enemy. Remember Linda Tripp?

[Sharpshooter007]

16. It's also a numbers game

Bill Clinton at 4 accusers, although bad, is still a lot less bad than Harvey Weinstein at 80+ (and growing), Kevin Spacey at 20+ (and growing), Trump at 16+ (and growing). Bubba's not in those guys league.

We'll see what happens with Franken but if nothing else comes out he'd still be in miles better shape than Trump.

[TheDebbieDee]

17. Also, President Clinton was punished and is still being punished because of the scandal...

He was even impeached in a matter that involved his testimony about Lewinsky and he was disbarred from practicing law. To say that he got away with something is totally bull$hit!

There are people today who ask why he wasn't arrested and prosecuted for rape and on and on and on. Some people seem to think that the only way to punish someone is with jail time...

And I'm embarrassed that Sen Gillibrand said that President Clinton should have resigned when the Lewinski scandal was brought to light. Resign! SERIOUSLY?

[BeyondGeography]

20. Smart move by her

There’s no future in defending Bill Clinton’s behavior. None at all.

[TheDebbieDee]

36. Dumb move by her... She makes Dems look weak

She panicked and threw Franken under the bus!

And there is a future in saying that Bill Clinton has been punished for his mistakes...

[BeyondGeography]

44. There are still several women out there who don't feel that way

Are they all liars? And why would Democrats want to have anything to do with re-litigating their claims?

Bill Clinton is a waste of time at this point.

[TheDebbieDee]

46. It's conservatives/republicans who are trying

To re-litigate Clinton's impeachment. I never said all the women were lying but I do know that they were supported by Roger Stone types.

[karynnj]

67. The Democratic party was punished for Clinton's behavior --

In 2000, the mean drunk until he was 40 GWB ran against eagle scout Al Gore, married to his high school sweetheart with a then picture perfect family on the basis of "restoring honor and decency to the White House". I know there are some that claim that had he used BC more he would have won. That is not provable and the fact that there was a question of whether he hurt or helped was due to Clinton's behavior.

In 2004, I would bet that John Kerry was not super happy when Bill Clinton's book came out in late June 2004 - and the media gave lots of coverage to his book tour - with the main lookup in the book being "Lewinsky" and "the headline was "because I could". The month before the convention, when the candidate needed to get his message and biography out, the media was giving far more coverage to Clinton and relitigating the scandal. Like 2000, you can't prove this made a difference - but it certainly did not help!

Then there is 2016, I suspect many people cringed when the Trump team brought Clinton accusers to the debates. I suspect their intent was more "neutralizing" the accusations against Trump. You can argue they were not equivalent and he was not the Democratic candidate, but for many conflicted Republicans it was an excuse for voting for a completely unfit candidate -- as either way someone in the WH would be unacceptable to them. (Note - I suspect they would have used Sanders' past in a different way - and they would have tried to equate Biden with Trump - even though there is nothing in his REAL record to do so with.)

[Corgigal]

18. This won't be popular

but I bet Bill Clinton was the person being sexually harassed during his political career. I have a feeling, he didn't have bother any women for a damn thing. He just had poor impulse control because he's human. The only person who really had to deal with crap was Hillary. Even she mentioned in some book, that she was amazed on how a good looking man like Bill would find her geek self attractive.
Some men just have it, which is just a genetic draw. Men just don't mention it when woman aim it at that, but he still should have known his political enemies were too close. I still think he cared for Monica at bit.
I always worried about a Obama in this way, but he was much more disciplined.

[treestar]

43. I agree, I don't think Bill had

to resort to such things as unattractive Republican men do.

There was a tape of him talking to Gennifer Flowers, I think it was - way back, so I don't know if I could find it. A feminist writer made the argument that he was listening to what she was saying. That alone will make a man very attractive. This is what right wing men and MRAs don't get; as they complain that women don't go for them enough.

[RobinA]

69. Popular With Me

Clinton is quite attractive to many women, for reasons, I think, other than looks. Monica admits she went after him, and I doubt she's the only one. He definitely used poor judgement. I think he also had the sense to know that the more disciplined Hilary would be a better partner for him than the women buzzing around his chickbait self. He was right. People are always saying that the Clintons are a mismatched couple. I find them quite well matched. Not in the sense that they are alike, but in the sense that they are different, one being strong where the other is wanting.

[loyalsister]

96. Boys will be boys is always the desperate go to

and it has been one of the most damaging myths used against women who seek justice for sexual harassment and abuse.

[Cicada]

114. Bill did not sexually harass Lewinsky nor abuse her

Boys will be boys is a rotten excuse but there is no harrassment, no abuse to be excused here. Boy meets girl, consensual sex follows, does not always need an excuse.

You can complain about infidelity, about lying, about obstruction of justice related to the Paula Jones lawsuit, but not in this Lewinsky case about harrassment, abuse.

Your point is valid but I don’t think it is relevant here.

[loyalsister]

115. She said she felt abused by the scapegoating and humiliation

That only happened because he denied it and he could have put a stop to it. They tried to make it about infidelity, when the real issue was a powerful man had a relationship with a 22 yr old woman then trashed her reputation when he got caught. Imagine having a job interviews or submitting resumes as Monica Lewinsky circa 1999. As there has been a shift to start listening to women, people want to stick with defending the most high profile instance yet. I'm sure the would-be Harvey Weinsteins are grateful that they will be welcome to harass women in the future as long as they do something to get on the good side of alleged feminists.

[Cicada]

117. I stand corrected

[loyalsister]

119. She told her side in a Ted talk

She took responsibility for her part and described her experience only. There's a jab at an unnamed "supposed friend" who taped her, beyond that she does direct some blame towards the media. My inescapable conclusion is that I played a role by following the story and buying a narrative that she felt was abusive and did real damage.

It's worth a listen because she makes a strong point about how bullying and shaming people has evolved and keeps getting worse.

[Oneironaut]

111. Remember - nobody made him take it out of his pants.

He’s no victim. He knew that what he was doing was wrong. “Poor impulse control” is no excuse.

[Lee-Lee]

21. When I see Bill listed as a predator it isnt Monica who they list as a victim

How much veracity was there to claims by the others? Some seemed stronger than others and they paid at least one a lot of money to shut her up, so I don’t know.

But I’ll put their claims when they stepped forward on the same table as any other victims, until shown otherwise.

[Kingofalldems]

35. Hmmmmm. Not a good try.

[DinahMoeHum]

22. There was only one thing I wanted to know when this broke out. . .

a 9-word question:

Did he force her?
OR
Did she let him?

If it was the former, yes, you'd have a case. It's rape.
If it was the latter, end of discussion. Nothing further to see. It's a lousy lay.

[dpd3672]

24. So for it to be rape

The victim has to resist? That's a very slippery slope.

[DinahMoeHum]

37. She had to say no. If she said no, it's not consensual.

What happened between them was consensual. Period.

[JDC]

23. GOPers think sex is sex I guess.

Age, consent, context, etc. it’s all the same to them. Unless you are gay of course. They bank on the fact that people won’t remember what Bill and Lonica did as consensual. Just that something was something wrong there. That’s enough for them.

[uponit7771]

32. +1, there's a article on why conservatives are so easily lied to and 1 of the reasons is conflation

[yallerdawg]

27. Mika on "AM Joe" made another astounding comment this morning.

Sen. Gillibrand suggested it would have been appropriate for Bill Clinton to resign after sex with an intern (today).

Mika's comment is, "Time to stop tiptoeing around the Clintons."



Why I try to wait for the "After Joe" show with Stephanie Ruhle.

[StevieM]

61. First of all, it is disgusting to refer to HRC as if she is properly identified in tandem with

her husband. She was not "Bill Clinton's wife running for president." She had her own career, and it was not a by-product of his.

Second...seriously? People tiptoe around the Clintons? We have gone easy on them? Really, Mika?

[Gidney N Cloyd]

74. Mika's a blue ribbon idiot and she's got a long-term problem with HRC.

If it's time to stop tiptoeing then I'd love to finally hear what HRC did to piss her off. I'd bet it's something like declining an invitation to one of Mika's "Joe's Your Value" conferences.

[Irish_Dem]

30. I agree, consensual sex between adults is not our business. nt

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. He was her superior at her place of employment.

I don't know enough about either party to determine if occupational relationship influenced personal relationship, but the power dynamic between employer and employee complicates the "consenting adults" thing more than you seem to acknowledge.

[Kirk Lover]

40. Yeah it's this right here. Regardless he was in a position of power and she was not ...

that's going to be a loser each and every time.

[treestar]

42. She was planning on it before she met him

I mean, sometimes woman do want to get it on, and it is starting to seem like slut-shaming to make that impossible for them to chose to do, and it could include a superior.

The old saw about power being sexy and all that. And my guess is that Bill is a very attractive man in person.

[Act_of_Reparation]

45. That could be the case.

But still, as a man of power and influence you have to question whether or not you're taking advantage of someone, even if they're throwing themselves at you.

[treestar]

47. That old fashioned "throwing themselves at you"

not directed at you, but I hate it as it implies women aren't to chose. They aren't to "chase" men. My mother often told me that. For her generation, it was true.

It was unwise of Bill to fail to control himself with Monica, but she did plan it before she even got there. She should have that agency, though he was married and that made her a jerk too. He was wrong but I don't think she was feeling pushed or harassed into it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

84. Poor choice of words on my part.

Old habits die hard, I guess. For the record, I'm a big fan of chasing. I probably wouldn't be married without it.

[RobinA]

72. This Line of Thinking

gets a little too close to, "The little women wasn't able to consent" for my comfort. Lewinsky wasn't 12, she was a full grown woman able to make her own decisions. He used poor judgement and she did too. Both paid for it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

82. That wasn't my intention.

Just saying it is generally not a good idea for a supervisor to have a sexual relationship with a subordinate.

[tammywammy]

110. I work at a Fortune 100 company

A few years ago the CEO was planning to retire at the end of the year and around February they announced this and that the COO would take his spot. This allowed for a 10 month transition.

In November the soon to be CEO resigned. Why? There was an ethics complaint that he was having a sexual relationship with an employee at corporate headquarters, therefore his subordinate. A complaint was made, outside investigators brought in, it was proven true, and two weeks after the complaint he was gone. They promoted another person up to CEO.

It doesn't matter if Monica was planning to sleep with him. Bill was in charge of his actions. He chose to act inappropriately with a subordinate. She was an intern and he was the boss. End of story. It was inappropriate.

[BannonsLiver]

39. Agreeed. Gillibrand got out over her skis with this one.

[treestar]

41. Agreed. Clinton listens to women too.

He has charisma. Right wingers are stupid to claim he did any such thing. It is projection. They are jealous Bill attracts women, period.

[MichMary]

50. If Lewinsky was the only one,

you might have a point; however, what happened to Juanita Broaddrick was anything but consensual.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/what-hillary-knew/546170/

Enough time has passed that outing Clinton for his alleged sex crimes now has the same retro “Oh grow up” feeling as revealing that John F. Kennedy had lovers—nobody’s perfect. But let’s not fool ourselves. “I believe Juanita” doesn’t just mean that you’re generally in favor of believing women when they report sex crimes. It means you believe that for eight years our country was in the hands of a violent rapist.

[Pathwalker]

56. UNDER OATH she said otherwise. Said she was NOT raped.

Please stop.

[MichMary]

64. Hmmm . . .

I wonder if there is any reason why a woman would lie about a sexual assault by a powerful man--even under oath?

(Hint: The answer is "yes.&quot

She told five people--contemporaneously--the details of what had happened. She is credible.

[Demit]

81. Two of those five had a possible grudge against Clinton.

He had commuted the life sentence of the man who killed their father.

The story of Juanita Broaddrick is fascinatingly convoluted. Wikipedia has a good rundown of the circles she ran in.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

59. Assuming that shes credible. And thats a huge assumption at this point.

There were already glaring inconsistencies in her statements to the extent even Ken Starr wouldn’t touch them.

Subsequent she’s sat next to Donald Trump at a press conference days after the Access Hollywood tapes dropped and defended him and attacked those who have accused Trump of inappropriate behavior. And now she’s attacking Roy Moore’s accusers.

I have serious problems believing someone like that. Normal victims of abuse wouldn’t act like that.

[MichMary]

65. What's "normal" behavior

for a sexual assault victim?

Different people react in different ways, and since there is nothing "normal" about a sexual assault, I won't question anything they do.

[kwassa]

71. If you won't question anything they do, you have already passed judgment.

The woman will always be right in her claims, in your eyes.

[MichMary]

73. Until PROVEN otherwise--

yup.

For too many years, women had an uphill struggle in bringing light and justice to their own sexual assaults. they needed bruises, torn clothes, open wounds, etc. Their own behavior, their manner of dress, their own actions were questioned and scrutinized. Their reputations were dragged through the mud. The rapists were afforded the presumption of innocence, but their victims were not.

I thought we had gotten past that point, but it is clear from threads like this that there are still cases where the assumption is that the woman MUST be lying, MUST have an agenda, should be subjected to the very same things they always have been. Sad.

[kwassa]

75. I think it is better not to assume anything.

Wait for an investigation and the facts to come out.

Of course, that is not what we do here on DU. Supposition is the order of the day.

[MichMary]

76. So--

do you feel the same way about Roy Moore?

Seriously, I am in no way saying he isn't a pig of the highest magnitude. But, do we need to wait for an investigation and some facts, other than the women's own statements, of course.

I believe his accusers. I believe Tweeden. And I believe Broaddrick.

[Pathwalker]

77. Ken Starr didn't believe her, even after his $70 million dollar

investigation. He deemed her accusation NOT credible. He was out to get Bill Clinton any way he could, and he decided she was LYING. Not every woman is honest.

[MichMary]

78. I think the problem he had

was her statement to the FBI. That certainly would have been problematic in a legal sense; however, I can understand why a woman would get cold feet about testifying against a powerful man.

I'm not sure he didn't believe her, just saw the inconsistent statements as problematic. JMHO.

[kwassa]

79. Moore has lots of accusers.

and many who observed his mall cruising. His guilt is pretty convincing.

My mind is not made up on Tweeden, as I haven't read all the information yet. I was waiting for the dust to settle, and more facts to accumulate. Her associations with Fox are worth noting, though.

Broaddrick's case is questionable to me because of all her changing stances over the years on what happened. Her allowing herself to be exploited by Trump is also questionable.

[MichMary]

80. She told five people contemporaneously

and I believe that is one of the elements taken into consideration when determining an accuser's credibility.

She later recanted in a statement to the FBI, nearly 20 years after the fact. Understandable. She had been dug up by someone to testify in the Paula Jones case. She probably felt that she had moved on, and certainly didn't want to lose the anonymity that a sexual assault victim covets. Besides, he was the POTUS, and I cannot imagine any woman wanting to open that can of worms.

There are a whole lot of liberal people publicly admitting that they believe her now, and many seeming to feel guilty for ever having doubted her.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

85. Questioning the validity of an accusation is not victim blaming.

I don’t know why people continue to conflate the two.

Making an accusation does not automatically mean we have to believe them or that we should be guilted into believing just because.

Facts still have to be weighed.

I work for people who have made claims of sexual harassment and assault and even I know I can’t take all claims at face value.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

83. If you are claiming you were assaulted...

...and not only do you not have a problem sitting next to a guy who was just in the news for bragging on tape about how he likes to kiss women without their consent and how he’d like to grab their genitalia...but also....

....you actually attack and cast doubt on the women who claims he did just that, that is shady ass behavior.

And then to do the same thing when it comes to Roy Moore?

“Believe me, but not thee”?

I’m sorry but that alone destroys her credibility right there.

[gopiscrap]

51. agreed

[MatthewG.]

54. Impeachment was an error, but Clinton acted badly

The case for impeachment was pretty weak - perjury of that kind in a civil suit is rarely prosecuted, and I don’t see how anyone could prove he knowingly lied when he described the activities which transpired as not sex. Censure, which is what Democrats wanted, was more appropriate.

Clinton didn’t cover himself in glory, either. He probably should have stepped down. Certainly, the conduct he engaged wouldn’t be tolerated in most workplaces if it was exposed.


(Its hard to make predictions based on roads not taken, but if Clinton had resigned there’s a decent chance Gore would have won and we would have been spared the disastrous Iraq War.)

[oberliner]

55. What about the others?

Are they all liars?

[MichMan]

70. Every single one was attacked and ridiculed

Every single one of Bill Clinton's accusers were attacked and ridiculed as liars and opportunists and personally denigrated.

Remember James Carville "Drag a $100 bill through a trailer park and this is what you get"

Were they telling the truth? Many on his "team" never cared enough to find out as the wagons were all circled.

I truly believe that those actions made accusations of sexual harassment much more difficult for women to make in the future.

[radius777]

93. James Carville was right,

women can be tools and opportunists also, especially when money and politics are involved.

The charges against Bill were investigated (officially and unofficially) ad nauseum for a decade and nothing was ever found against him, aside from consensual affairs.

Most of those women (like Tweeden) are GOP/Trumpers who couldnt care less about "women's rights" or "harassment" etc - and who were clearly just out to bring down a Democrat.

The problem w/Dems is the party has become too emo and milquetoast and not enough like Carville, who didn't take shit and was good at fighting back against "false equivalency" bullshit.

[oberliner]

108. This is simply not true

There is no question that, at a minimum, he made unwanted sexual advances on women.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

90. He was her boss. And the President.

It was workplace sexual harassment plain and simple. He didn't deserve to be impeached for "lying" under oath. That was a witch hunt. But it doesn't excuse what he did with his position of power.

[lindysalsagal]

92. Clinton/Lewinsky was not harassment. He did not threaten her. It does not cross the

line into harassment until someone refuses to stop after being told to stop, or someone punishes someone for being rejected.

Neither of those things happened.

I don't give a rats ass who frump screws around with, and I doubt anyone else does, either. Irrelevant unless it was under duress, by force, or underage.

Only one person was owed his fidelity, and so it was HRC's choice how to handle it.

[radius777]

94. Exactly why he was attractive to her.

Women tend to be drawn to male power and dominance, whereas men are drawn to female youth and beauty. This is a story as old as time itself, and doesn't change much regardless of the era in question.

Monica and most of the other women pursued Bill, who gave into his own personal vice or weakness, which is far different from the predatory behavior displayed by Moore and Trump.

[lindysalsagal]

100. Exactly. Cosby could have all the willing women he wanted: He chose to use drugs to take what was no

not offered. That's a predator.

[JI7]

121. She was into him before he was her boss

[oberliner]

99. What about JFK/Mimi Alford?

Same deal?

[Fiendish Thingy]

101. Ignoring the power dynamic between a President and an intern does a disservice to all women

Who experience sexual harassment/pressure in the workplace, regardless of whether it had the veneer of being "consensual".

To ignore the fact that The sex acts took place in the Oval Office disrespects the Presidency, just a Bill Clinton did.

To ignore the fact that Clinton was married at the time disrespects HRC, IMO.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

109. It was stupid. It was not an offense that demanded resignation.

Sheesh. I feel like I’m dealing with Republicans from 1998 here.

The country overall found the scandal to be laughably blown out of proportion, if you recall.

[R B Garr]

116. +1, LOL, this topic of Clinton resigning over Lewinsky is all

the rage at that JPR website, so now I see why it’s crept here. It is like talking to Republicans.

[VMA131Marine]

106. We should hold our leaders to the same standards we are held to

If the CEO of the (public) corporation I work for had been involved in a sexual relationship with an intern he would be gone.

[NoMoreRepugs]

107. A 2 year $60 million investigation wasn't enough??

We need to delve back into Clinton/Lewinsky again? Seriously, the level of misdirection being fostered upon the American public by the Soviets and the GOP is mind boggling to me.

Have to retrofit my tinfoil hat to stay sane.

[louis-t]

112. My republican relatives always portrayed it as

Monica being a 'teenager' and he molested her against her will and she was a victim. I think the reason drumpf doesn't see himself as a sexual predator is in his warped mind, the women 'enjoyed it' and were 'honored' by his groping and aggressiveness.

[kskiska]

118. Clinton actually wanted out of the affair

Monica initially told him that either one could opt out - no problem. However, when he did want out, Monica wanted it to continue and made threats. That's when she was transferred to the Pentagon where she met up with Linda Tripp. Monica also had an affair with Tom Longstreth at the Pentagon and became pregnant. He paid for her abortion.
https://nypost.com/1999/03/05/lover-i-paid-for-monicas-abortion-denies-book-claim-he-abandoned-her/