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I love Al but,,,,,, (Original Post) Cryptoad Nov 2017 OP
Fuck. This. Shit. It's a Republican ratfucking job. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2017 #1
I agree. cwydro Nov 2017 #5
Me too. BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #21
Yep!.... Little Star Nov 2017 #32
+ 1 musette_sf Nov 2017 #33
Agreed pandr32 Nov 2017 #45
100% Hamlette Nov 2017 #48
yep steve2470 Nov 2017 #56
Republicans play dirty and for keeps. Democrats HAVE to push back. VOX Nov 2017 #59
Agreed, but instead we get into circular firing squads because, among other things, some rzemanfl Nov 2017 #62
So many here are saying the photo is no big deal. Such a double standard. It was stupid and.... USALiberal Nov 2017 #2
Uh, this is a board for Democrats.... R B Garr Nov 2017 #4
So there is a double standard? OK, I understand. n/t USALiberal Nov 2017 #6
Then explain the double standard nt R B Garr Nov 2017 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #9
You insult people a lot if they disagree with you. Name calling, etc. nt USALiberal Nov 2017 #13
Da. BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #14
I notice it is the same people pushing this meme over and over Skittles Nov 2017 #60
Whataboutism is strong in you. rzemanfl Nov 2017 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Nov 2017 #12
Agree. How can we condemn Trump, and Moore question everything Nov 2017 #23
Hey Trump was first. let's demand his resignation delisen Nov 2017 #47
We certainly should and I am glad that there already articles of impeachment question everything Nov 2017 #54
I thought that right at first. I'm thinking now she wasn't even really asleep, actually taking part brewens Nov 2017 #31
Id steer clear of the a lot of guys would do it defense onenote Nov 2017 #57
Let's get a sense of perspective please VMA131Marine Nov 2017 #3
Moore is 100x worse than Franken..... USALiberal Nov 2017 #8
So then there is no double standard. R B Garr Nov 2017 #11
There is when we try to say it was no big deal. We would not treat a GOPer the same. nt USALiberal Nov 2017 #16
Ah, the concern over how a GOP'er is treated. R B Garr Nov 2017 #18
We should bash Dems when they do something stupid. Or ignore it like the GOP does I guess. n/t USALiberal Nov 2017 #20
Or not cater to false equivalencies... R B Garr Nov 2017 #22
In your mind I guess that is true. n/t USALiberal Nov 2017 #25
False equivalencies are a huge political ploy. R B Garr Nov 2017 #27
As I have pointed out before many times on DU rock Nov 2017 #70
So to you, a joke photo in front of many witnesses panader0 Nov 2017 #58
His victim has already leftynyc Nov 2017 #42
Humor is dead? GeorgeGist Nov 2017 #15
Fake groping an unwilling sleeping woman is not comedy. n/t USALiberal Nov 2017 #19
But is it a sex crime? delisen Nov 2017 #50
Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #66
To the person who alerted on #66 above FBaggins Nov 2017 #71
Let's not equate it with Roy Moore's behavior, shall we? The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #17
of course not, but neither should it be completely excused, along w/ victim-blaming. nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2017 #67
Nobody's suggesting it should be completely excused. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #69
He already said he did it and he was sorry what more do you want? blueinredohio Nov 2017 #24
He said he did what? NanceGreggs Nov 2017 #28
The picture leftynyc Nov 2017 #43
Thats if you believe her MFM008 Nov 2017 #26
... NanceGreggs Nov 2017 #29
Thank you. nt cwydro Nov 2017 #36
+1 Little Star Nov 2017 #39
What a beautiful post! You have created a poem, whether intentional or not. Glorfindel Nov 2017 #51
thanks MFM008 Nov 2017 #55
Wish I could rec this post. Tatiana Nov 2017 #74
There's no defense for comedy? Egnever Nov 2017 #30
She has accused him of forcibly kissing her against her will oberliner Nov 2017 #34
Ive been kissed against my will. cwydro Nov 2017 #37
There is a picture from the skit of Franken holding a woman's gstring or R B Garr Nov 2017 #41
He said he doesn't remember it the way she does CatMor Nov 2017 #44
It was both comedy and consensual Nevernose Nov 2017 #64
why should there be? who else gets to be completely exempt from normal standards of right and wrong? TheFrenchRazor Nov 2017 #68
Al's accuser was working as an actress. Sophia4 Nov 2017 #35
Wait, what?? MichMary Nov 2017 #46
I agree pandr32 Nov 2017 #49
I was hired, on the other hand, to sing and play the piano. Sophia4 Nov 2017 #53
Well said pandr32 Nov 2017 #63
she "sold sexy", one would think she would come out about the many men who behaved inappropriately. uncle ray Nov 2017 #73
I don't see him trying to defend it. WTF is this about? NT Adrahil Nov 2017 #38
i'll wait till the witnesses weigh in...this wasn't done in a vacuum spanone Nov 2017 #40
I'm going to let this play out and i hope the ethics commitee investigation that the Senator CentralMass Nov 2017 #52
No defense? egduj Nov 2017 #61
Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #65
ffs, "dems" did not do the same thing. But this exact reasoning here is what the R B Garr Nov 2017 #72

BannonsLiver

(16,369 posts)
21. Me too.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:38 PM
Nov 2017

I'm also astounded by people like the OP who are pushing a form of the "both sides" meme, while staying willfully ignorant of the facts surrounding how this story was broken. Street smarts are lacking with some of us here.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
32. Yep!....
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:00 PM
Nov 2017

He's playing & laughing for the camera, why do that if it wasn't just a joke! If I were going to actually molest anyone I certainly wouldn't do it in front of witnesses or on camera.

This is one of the weakest smears I've ever seen, even for republicans.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
56. yep
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 04:53 PM
Nov 2017

He apologized, she accepted it. He has NO history of sexually harassing women. He should stay in the Senate and this needs to blow over. Moore on the other hand, if elected, should be expelled from the Senate tout de suite.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
59. Republicans play dirty and for keeps. Democrats HAVE to push back.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 05:23 PM
Nov 2017

Republicans control all three branches of the federal government; they now also control both legislative chambers in 32 states, where their absurd gerrymandering merely ensures their permanence; they have a 24-7 “news” network; they’ve got BIG money on their side — like the billionaire Mercers who shell out for Steve Bannon and Breitbart. They even have the Machiavellian support of a hostile foreign power, whose underhanded, large-scale efforts turned Democrats and progressives against one another, and very likely changed the course of history by tipping the 2016 election.

It’s clear that Democrats have their backs pressed to the wall. Despite some recent (and welcome) victories, there remains a significant numerical disadvantage for Democrats in just about every arena.

The only way forward is to FIGHT. It doesn’t come naturally to those on the left, who remain rational, and who are geared to negotiate and compromise. It’s a noble effort, but Republicans obviously aren’t interested in decent, positive change. They want all or nothing, no regulations, and they merely shout down or walk away from anything resembling the “greater good.” They are masters at dirty politics, and with some input from their ex-KGB Russian allies, they can raise the noise level over any developing narrative.

“When they go low, we go high” is an extraordinary sentiment, but it won’t win elections— not with today’s Republicans. They’ve completely dropped their previous long-standing self-representation as the party of fiscal responsibility and “family values.” Their collusion with Russia to sway an election is altogether unprecedented, and there are no signs of this hybrid and totalitarian-enabling relationship breaking up.

All of which underscores, again, why this entire undertaking is a 15-round fight. Democrats have to slug it out, keep the pressure on, not lose heart, remain steadfast and keep plugging.

Centrists, Yellow Dogs, liberals and progressives must stand together in a common battle for survival, not only for party and ideals, but for the country itself. The U.S. is badly wounded and in a desperate spot. The stakes could not be higher.

rzemanfl

(29,556 posts)
62. Agreed, but instead we get into circular firing squads because, among other things, some
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 05:28 PM
Nov 2017

believe persons with ovaries cannot tell a lie. I have a hard time seeing this ending well.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
2. So many here are saying the photo is no big deal. Such a double standard. It was stupid and....
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:21 PM
Nov 2017

wrong to take a photo doing that to her. But since he is a dem it is OK here.

Response to USALiberal (Reply #2)

rzemanfl

(29,556 posts)
10. Whataboutism is strong in you.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:27 PM
Nov 2017

It's a nice day here near St. Petersburg, Florida. How's your weather?

Response to rzemanfl (Reply #10)

question everything

(47,470 posts)
23. Agree. How can we condemn Trump, and Moore
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:39 PM
Nov 2017

when one of us is behaving badly?

No, it is not the same. The picture is not groping, I don't think, but is bad, especially if she is asleep.

Where is our moral ground when we constantly describe Trump with no moral center?

delisen

(6,042 posts)
47. Hey Trump was first. let's demand his resignation
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:42 PM
Nov 2017

or at least investigate the claims against Trump,

and then move on to those next in line-there will be many.

The fact that there may be many is no excuse for passing over the Trump.

I think fairness and no double stand is important.

question everything

(47,470 posts)
54. We certainly should and I am glad that there already articles of impeachment
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 04:03 PM
Nov 2017

But, if Schumer and Warren and others are pointing the groping by Moore and by Trump, what are they supposed to say when the response is: what about Franken?

The actions by Trump and Moore, theoretically can still fall under "she said/he said." The yearbook can be referred to as just whether he knew her, or not. I am not trying to "promote right wing propaganda;" I am trying to look at all angels. Here, you have a photograph. (And I am still curious on how she got it, but a different matter).


brewens

(13,574 posts)
31. I thought that right at first. I'm thinking now she wasn't even really asleep, actually taking part
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:54 PM
Nov 2017

in a little hot clowning around with Al. I think he knows he doesn't really dare tell the whole story right now. Maybe when he knows others there will back him up if that was really the case. I read somewhere there were others saying the context of the pic is not what it seems.

Hannity claiming he saw that before or actually at the start of Al's senate campaign really makes it stink to high heaven. No way he knows about that and didn't get it out there to sabotage Al's campaign. He never saw it. She wasn't using it because it was a photo she had from a good time on the tour. Now is a good time to use it, possibly fabricate the rehearsal kiss story to get back at our side.

The description of the kiss is really over the top probably. Think about how that plays to the alt-right types. A slimy lipped Jew forcing his tongue down her throat! That's the image they are supposed to get. Al may have been getting a little charge out of getting to rehearse a kiss with such a beautiful woman, a lot of guys would. I wouldn't be surprised if she really liked him, was a good sport about it, and had fun with it.

VMA131Marine

(4,138 posts)
3. Let's get a sense of perspective please
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:23 PM
Nov 2017

It's unlikely that Franken would even have been prosecuted for what he did, especially if he apologized as he has done now. Even if he had been, assuming that there are no other victims out there, the worst that would have happened would have been a plea to misdemeanor assault and no jail time.

Roy Moore would still be on the sex offender registry if he had been caught and prosecuted at the time of his offenses.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
8. Moore is 100x worse than Franken.....
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:27 PM
Nov 2017

But that does not mean Franken was not a thoughtless idiot 10 years ago. He was.

He made a mistake, and we should not dismiss it.

But any talk of him resigning is stupid. The apology is enough.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
18. Ah, the concern over how a GOP'er is treated.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:33 PM
Nov 2017

Who could have predicted this? Bashing Democrats is a huge draw for some.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
27. False equivalencies are a huge political ploy.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:42 PM
Nov 2017

It's a huge RW ploy, especially with those connected to Hannity types. Yuuge ploy.

rock

(13,218 posts)
70. As I have pointed out before many times on DU
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:30 PM
Nov 2017

Usually issues we discuss are not black and white but have many gradations (this is a from of lazy thinking). Seeing such issues as B&W commits the sin of False Equivalencies.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
58. So to you, a joke photo in front of many witnesses
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 05:10 PM
Nov 2017

of Sen Franken, not quite touching a Kevlar vest, is the same as Roy Moore
tearing a girl's shirt and giving her neck bruises from trying to force her facinto his crotch,
then throwing her on the ground and threatening her before peeling out is the same
as what Franken did. Okay USALiberal. Sure thing.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
42. His victim has already
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:29 PM
Nov 2017

accepted his apology. If you want to continue to pile on, knock yourself out. I'd rather concentrate on what this board was created for, electing democrats. Feel free to wring your hands as long as you like.

Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #15)

FBaggins

(26,727 posts)
71. To the person who alerted on #66 above
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:43 PM
Nov 2017

If you think that "Support Democrats" means that we give Democratic politicians a pass on sexual assault... then you don't belong on this site and I think you're very fortunate to be anonymous.

Argue all you want that you don't believe an accusation... or that it was inappropriate behavior but (absent evidence of further offenses) does not rise to the level of punishment... but don't for a minute pretend that "support Democrats" means "ignore serious accusations against them".

Hint - Your alert proves TheFrenchRazor's post was accurate. Congratulations on a non-post that is simultaneously disgusting and ironic!

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,674 posts)
17. Let's not equate it with Roy Moore's behavior, shall we?
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:30 PM
Nov 2017

That's what the ratfuckers want. Of course it was crude and piggish, but it was in no way comparable to child molestation or lurking in a shopping mall trying to pick up high school girls. Franken won't lose his seat; that's a ridiculous idea. If every member of Congress who ever committed an act of sexual harassment was kicked out I bet there would hardly be anyone left. And the GOP knows that Franken would be replaced by our progressive governor with another progressive Democrat like Keith Ellison. There's no upside for them to do anything more than censure him, which would be appropriate - but would almost certainly lead to more women coming forward to complain about other senators and representatives. They have to be careful about how this is handled because it could turn out to be a big exploding cigar.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,674 posts)
69. Nobody's suggesting it should be completely excused.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 06:08 PM
Nov 2017

Franken himself admitted what he did was completely out of bounds. But there seems to be an attempt to equate his actions with Moore's child molesting and his stalking and assaulting of young girls. There is no equivalency. We can all agree that men need to be aware that jokes about fondling or assaulting women aren't funny, and that what matters isn't what they intended but what the woman probably perceived. It would be appropriate if the Senate chooses to censure Franken as a warning to others (Franken already knows he messed up). But talk of expelling him or forcing him to resign is ridiculous and only serves to equate his conduct with that of a predator like Moore.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
43. The picture
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:30 PM
Nov 2017

he said it was a stupid "joke" and he was sorry for ever thinking something like that was funny. That's the ONLY thing he has admitted.

MFM008

(19,805 posts)
26. Thats if you believe her
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:41 PM
Nov 2017




I do not.
I believe she looked at this picture, (he is NOT touching her) and it made her angry and she is a partisan, she thought I can MILK this situation and perhaps take out a Liberal democrat senator.
He apologizes to her for feeling affronted by the awkward fumbling stupidity.
He apologizes to the USO troop as well,
I presume he did not sexually victimize any of them, he apologized because it was the right
thing to do.
So a raging liberal is going to put his career and reputation into the greedy little hands of a
right wing hack ?
No sorry, this is a right wing Roger Stone hit job.
A he said she said to try to remove
an annoying liberal from the Senate.
Then maggot ices the cake last night about where Frankens hands were in other pictures.
The aggressive pussy grabbing rapist golden shower boy

NEED I SAY MORE??????????????????????????????

Glorfindel

(9,726 posts)
51. What a beautiful post! You have created a poem, whether intentional or not.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:55 PM
Nov 2017

These lines, especially:

"I presume he did not sexually victimize any of them, he apologized because it was the right
thing to do.
So a raging liberal is going to put his career and reputation into the greedy little hands of a
right wing hack ? "

"Then maggot ices the cake last night about where Frankens hands were in other pictures.
The aggressive pussy grabbing rapist golden shower boy "

T. S. Eliot-worthy! I'm being sincere.

Tatiana

(14,167 posts)
74. Wish I could rec this post.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 08:49 PM
Nov 2017

There is no way Senator Franken should step down or go anywhere.

He is a damn good Senator. He clearly make a joke in poor taste and apologized.

Let's stop eating our own. We need all the firepower we can find and Franken is a damn good shot.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
30. There's no defense for comedy?
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 01:53 PM
Nov 2017

Yea it was bad comedy but there's tons of that out there.


This whole thing is BS in my opinion.

An apology is more than sufficient and likely not warranted in the first place based one who the accuser is.

Just does not pass the smell test for me.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
34. She has accused him of forcibly kissing her against her will
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:04 PM
Nov 2017
He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.


That's not comedy.
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
37. Ive been kissed against my will.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:18 PM
Nov 2017

I pushed the assholes away.

I don’t consider that sexual assault.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
41. There is a picture from the skit of Franken holding a woman's gstring or
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:26 PM
Nov 2017

some type of panty. You don't think that was comedy for the USO crowd? The whole history of comedians and the USO is that they entertain the troops by showing women as objects and the whole atmosphere is raucous and overt ogling.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
64. It was both comedy and consensual
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 05:33 PM
Nov 2017

But it is consensual.

The writer wrote a scene. They rehearsed it. She didn’t like the idea before and liked it even less after the rehearsal. They didn’t do it again, nor was she asked to, nor was she pressured.

Apparently it WAS comedy, though, because they kept the routine and switched to fake kissing.

 

TheFrenchRazor

(2,116 posts)
68. why should there be? who else gets to be completely exempt from normal standards of right and wrong?
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 05:56 PM
Nov 2017

i wish i knew that comedians were so special and privileged; i would have gone in to that line of work a long time ago.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
35. Al's accuser was working as an actress.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:09 PM
Nov 2017

When I was a young girl in high school, I had the lead role in an operetta -- a musical. I played the young girl who was in love. As a part of my role, I had to kiss the male lead. I was maybe 15 or 16 at the time. I had never been kissed, and had only gone out on one date in my life, and the guy I had to kiss on stage was utterly unattractive. But if I wanted to play the role of the ingenue and sing in the operetta, I had to kiss the guy.

Imagine Hollywood movies with no kissing. Imagine being an actress who is happily married, has three children and is required by a script to kiss an utterly unattractive man in a movie. Imagine playing the part of a woman who is, according to the script, raped in a movie. Pretty awful. Pretty disgusting. Just like being a never-kissed, over-protected, teenaged girl who has to kiss a boy in a high school operetta.

It's totally different from being harassed in real life. By agreeing to be in the operetta, I agreed to be kissed by this ugly guy. It was part of the gig.

Later in life, I learned to play piano bar. I was pretty good. The men in the bars I played in weren't, so I chose not to play any more piano bar. I learned that the job was not about my music, but about men who wanted a pretty woman to, shall we say, flatter them. It wasn't my thing. That was the end pretty much of my musical career.

An actress rehearses, even kisses from time to time if the role requires it. If you don't want to pretend with regard to sham affection and phony kisses, you don't become an actress. You don't take the part in the operetta.

Being kissed in a rehearsal may be unnecessary, unpleasant or even annoying, but it is understandable, especially if the act is either a comic or romantic scene, that being kissed by another actor or comedian that you find unattractive, even a slobberer, may be part of the gig if you accept a job in entertainment. I suspect that is particularly true if a woman who gets work because she is sexy agrees to go on a tour of a military base. Everybody knows that it is an act, a pretense. In the situation with Al Franken and the USO tour, everybody knew that Al Franken did not expect sexual favors from the woman he planned to kiss on stage. It was a joke. It was an act.

That's a very different matter from being a young woman working at a mall or restaurant or socializing at a mall being approached by an older man, being kissed or touched inappropriately by an older man.

It is also a very different matter from being a woman working in an office and having a co-worker touch you in a way you don't like.

We would have very few romantic movies if the kissing scenes could not be rehearsed or could not exist. There is an understanding, whether you are Franken and his accuser or some other actress and the leading man that you may play a romantic or even sex scene. You are both adults, and you both know that the pretend sex or romantic attraction is part of your job and that you may have to rehearse. You consent to the touching because it is part of your job.

When you work in an office, apply for a movie job with a movie producer or just live your life, you don't consent to touching by your clients, customers, the movie producer or the random guy in the restaurant.

What is inappropriate in one circumstance is quite appropriate in another. Fox TV has an entertainment station that features shows that sometimes require kissing. The actors and actresses know that when they choose their profession. When they accept a gig, they know what is involved.

Al Franken and the woman in question were working as comedians and actors. That is quite different from a situation in which an older man whose job is district attorney tries to pick up women 15 years younger than he is in a mall or a restaurant. The one is acting. The other is real life. I chose not to be an actress or a singer. It was my choice. I respect other women who make other choices. But when they make the choice, they have to accept what it means for them.

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
46. Wait, what??
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:39 PM
Nov 2017

This was during a 'rehearsal,' which she said she didn't need. He grabbed the back of her head, and stuck his tongue down her throat. He remembers it 'differently,' which I am sure every frat boy says the day after he has raped a young woman.

This was unnecessary and inexcusable.

To equate this with a movie kiss, or your stage kiss is stupid.

pandr32

(11,579 posts)
49. I agree
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 02:46 PM
Nov 2017

Tweeden was hired to do a sexy role for USO entertainment. She would have been briefed before she accepted the job.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
53. I was hired, on the other hand, to sing and play the piano.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 03:50 PM
Nov 2017

Men expected a lot more. I didn't want to provide it. I quit.

Read Ms. Tweeden's Wikipedia page. She earned her living by selling her sex appeal.
Most women don't want to do that, don't choose to do that.

I have been sexually harassed in workplaces in which the sexual harassment was not a part of the job. I know the difference.

If you, as a woman, agree to strip or go topless in a bar, you will probably be harassed. It's part of the job. If you accept a job on a USO comedy tour as the zany, sexy moderator, you will probably see and experience behavior on the part of men around you that you would not accept in a performance of Sound of Music. It's a question of what is appropriate.

I sympathize with all who experience sexual harassment especially in the workplace. But I think a certain amount of ribald joking around is probably to be expected on a USO tour. And that is what the photo and the slobbering kiss probably were intended to be. Ms. Tweeden should have asked for an apology on the spot if she thought Franken was being rude. And Franken should have given it. Franken has now apologized. That should be the end of it.

I wish the men who harassed me would/could apologize. But at least one of them is most certainly no longer walking this earth. I think Franken did the right thing by apologizing.

The man in Alabama who is now in the news regarding his harassment and attempts to befriend or date very young women should also apologize.

I'm generally very pleased that women are finally speaking up about sexual harassment.

I just think the facts in the Franken incident are at most ambiguous. Acting is acting. Being part of a USO show is entertaining mostly but not only very lonely men in a dangerous, far-off place. The actors who sign up for that gig should think about what they are getting into before they go.

Same for women who are waitresses or bartenders in strip joints.

Nurses and doctors accept the task of doing a lot of really unpleasant things in their work. Do their patients always treat them with respect? Probably not. We define sexual harssment in terms of the expectations of the environment in which the conduct occurs.

If you are in your 30s and a district attorney, you can expect questions if you try to date young women you encounter in a mall. If you are a comedian or actor, and you make fun of or try to kiss a co-star, you should not have to answer questions about it. If you are a doctor or nurse and you look at a patient's private parts, you should not be accused of sexual harassment unless you go beyond the medically justified. If you are a Homeland Security guard, you will on occasion touch travelers in areas that might be off-limits under normal circumstances. It's all a matter of what is appropriate under the circumstances. I'm an old lady, but a Homeland Security woman once touched me in ways that I would find offensive under normal circumstances. I had to deal with it. She was not in the wrong.

uncle ray

(3,156 posts)
73. she "sold sexy", one would think she would come out about the many men who behaved inappropriately.
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 08:29 PM
Nov 2017

instead she miraculously seems to have marketed her looks for years and only been harassed by one comedian who happens to be working hard to shine light on the cockroaches that are her bosses.

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
52. I'm going to let this play out and i hope the ethics commitee investigation that the Senator
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 03:33 PM
Nov 2017

requested occurs and that the correct course of action is followed based on that hearing.

Something cleary went on there but I would like to see all the facts reviewed and all potential witnesses and the accuser and accused to be heard before making a judgment. I've read where the military escort that Al had on that tour who was with him everywhere, except when he was sleeping, commented that he saw nothing inappropriate occurring.

egduj

(805 posts)
61. No defense?
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 05:27 PM
Nov 2017

Plenty people are defending his action. Even if the defense is, "Well, they did it, too..."

Response to Cryptoad (Original post)

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
72. ffs, "dems" did not do the same thing. But this exact reasoning here is what the
Fri Nov 17, 2017, 07:48 PM
Nov 2017

intended outcome of all this was -- spread false equivalencies to get Roy Moore off the hook.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I love Al but,,,,,,