General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe reason for the Franken false accusations of groping: He's turned out to be a tiger in the Senate
Franken has turned out to be enemy #1 to the Republicans, and particularly strong against Sessions' lying. He's articulate, smart, bold, and popular...and has made his point several times in a way that no other senator has.
Soooo...they are trying to get rid of him.
McConnell, too, is in the process of trying to get Sessions as a sign-in to Roy Moore's slot, to give Trump a way to fire Mueller.
malaise
(267,834 posts)I'm against any harassment but this smells 'orchestrated'.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)questionseverything
(9,631 posts)having a tasteless moment is no reason to resign or even be censured
al franken is very dangerous to repubs...he was smart enough to demand a hand count and won
FBaggins
(26,697 posts)Far beyond.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)It goes as far as Al Franken was a bad kisser so we only ever kissed once, in rehearsal. After that we fake kissed.
FBaggins
(26,697 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:13 PM - Edit history (3)
It was a USO tour and he wrote the script. There is no plausible USO stage event that involves shoving your tongue down a woman's throat. There's no way to read his alleged behavior there as anything but assault. No honest person on this thread actually believes that he felt he needed to rehearse the kissing scene (or that he wrote it into the script in the first place for any reason other than to facilitate his ridiculously juvenile attempt to woo her).
Nor should any progressive EVER downplay clear sexual harassment merely a "tasteless moment". Take "groping" out of it and it's still "while I was sleeping he had someone take a picture of him pretending to grope me while he flashed the "hey! Look what I can get away with!" smile at the camera... then he sent me the photo to rub it in"
There's no way to spin that as "tasteless". It's sexual harassment and entirely unacceptable.
She obviously felt violated... HE says "It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture"... the obvious question is why you can't see that as more than "tasteless"?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)He said he remembered the incident differently. He apologized for the punk photo.
It's not like there's a history of women accusing Franken of molestation, like in the case of Trump, Bill Cosby, Roy Moore, and others.
Some of Moore's accusers are Trumpers. In this case, the woman is a conservative who appeared on Sean Hannity show to "tell her story."
That doesn't mean it's not true. But there's no reason to assume it is true, when there is no other corroborating evidence, like a history of that M.O., other accusers, etc. He has been a champion of women's rights (unlike Moore).
So it's odd that anyone who knows anything about Franken and this accuser, would assume it's true.
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)comedy certainly can be tasteless
to me the pic is nothing, a gag, wether she is in on it or not
if and this is a big if at this point ,he actually tonged her then that is something I would not have expected of him but since he has apologized for what she may have felt and she has accepted his apology , me thinks u protest too much
FBaggins
(26,697 posts)The same act can be "tasteless" but NOT abusive if the woman knows about it and agrees to participate. Absent that its harassment at best... assault at worst.
As for you thinks... I haven't protested HIM. I've protested those here who defend his actions as somehow acceptable or put forward weird theories of faked photos or lying victim.
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)franken remembers it differently (as far as the kiss)
I welcome a full investigation so we know if there actually was a guard with franken ,when the photo was taken
all of it
but I feel the whole thing is a distraction from the biggest theft in our history(repub tax cuts for billionaires)
the election in bama whr we have repubs defending pedophiles
since we don't oversee the counting of our own votes, there is a good chance the pedophile will win and that bothers me more than al's fish lips
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029722275
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)The more details I hear, the more I agree about the 'orchestrated' part, too. And, why did this woman say she forgives Franken, and then turn around and continue to cry about it on every media outlet that would give her air time? I thought she forgave him.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)I like Senator Franken, he is good, and he had Sessions on the rope.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)malaise
(267,834 posts)Christie does not get to appoint a ReTHUG
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)Lots of us questioned it from the onset, and we have become even more suspicious since the it came out that Roger Stone and Infowars were involved. It stinks to high hell.
misanthrope
(7,405 posts)especially when combined with the Roger Stone/Infowars aspects.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)QUITE TRUMPED UP.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)They are slowly changing targets.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)This is a two-parter: Sessions leaving AG office to be Alabama senator again, leaves the path open for the appt of a new AG, one who will fire Mueller.
Getting rid of Franken is another part.
Who's next? They're going after "this Rusher thing."
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I agree. Its how they are spotting their new targets.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)Cattledog
(5,897 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Al Franken himself has not said any of the accusations are false.
greyl
(22,990 posts)edit: and maybe with some recent egging-on by people who are more interested in damaging Al than being champions for women. IF it's true that Hannity saw the photo years ago, why didn't he make hay about it then? Because the photo does not show actual groping, it shows a suggestive prank.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Is my point.
greyl
(22,990 posts)There's no solid reason yet to say "there was no false accusation", and certainly not just because of the absence of a denial.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)markpkessinger
(8,381 posts). . . But the larger issue, I think, is that in Franken's case, how ever egregious his behavior was in that incident, it appears to be a one-off, and not part of a long-standing pattern of harassment of women such as is the case with Moore and indeed with Trump.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts).99center
(1,237 posts)Tweeden also quit accusing Al of groping once the public figured out that she lied about the photo.
greyl
(22,990 posts)One picture that doesn't show groping does not mean no groping occurred. However, the victim's claim that she didn't know she was groped until she saw that photo, makes it more likely that no groping occurred, and that she is misinterpreting (or misrepresenting) the photo.
.99center
(1,237 posts)Which is what she falsely claimed.
greyl
(22,990 posts)Ligyron
(7,592 posts)There's metal plate covering your breasts.
greyl
(22,990 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)based on Franken not saying they were false. The statements of both individuals do not allow us to draw any conclusion definitively at this point. They could be false, they could be true. Franken's response does nothing to clarify that. Which may be precisely why he feels an ethics investigation is appropriate.
greyl
(22,990 posts)Bucky
(53,799 posts)That's not just a photo, that's a first hand account of abusing a female subordinate. Not cool. If true, of course.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)That comment would seem to deny that particular accusation without shaming her.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He is just saying he doesn't remember it the same way.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)he certainly has left the door open for that implication. His apology does not assert the veracity of her claims and we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that it does.
ETA: The headline of your reply says "there was no false accusation." We simply cannot know that with the words of either party at this point.
Kingofalldems
(38,361 posts)His statement is clear to me. And the proof is in the picture.
YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)NM
.99center
(1,237 posts)How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think its funny?"
Did Al touch her in the photo?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)it that way but apologized anyway. I guess he could have called her a liar but he's not a republican so didn't go that way.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)... that he remembers the event differently from his accuser. Certainly not an admission of guilt, and certainly not an admission that they are true.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,789 posts)But he has apologized and she has accepted his apology.
dalton99a
(81,073 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)an investigation because he knows there's nothing else out there. The fact that he wrote raunchy jokes as a comedian has been known for years; he never made any effort to hide it. The reason I doubt there are any more "groping" or other such incidents is this: When Franken ran for the Senate in 2008, his opponent was Norm Coleman, a real sleazebag. Coleman was an opportunist who started out his political career as a Democrat but switched to the GOP when he saw there were more openings for him there. So he ran for Mayor of St. Paul the second time as a GOPer. He ran for governor in 1998, but was defeated by Jesse Ventura(!). He wanted to run for governor the next time, but good pal Karl Rove talked him into running for the Senate instead; he almost certainly would have been defeated if Wellstone hadn't been killed in a plane crash.
Franken was his opponent when he ran for re-election in 2008, and the results were so close that Coleman had two recounts done; then after losing the second one he took the matter to the state Supreme Court, which ruled unanimously for Franken. Coleman's campaign featured really nasty attack ads relating to Franken's career as a comedian and some of his raunchy humor - the stuff that's coming out now about these jokes and skits was already known long ago, was dusted off by Coleman and is being dragged out again. But there was never any suggestion that Franken had ever done anything like the incident with Leeann Tweeden. Coleman just said yesterday that he'd have won if that incident had been known in 2008 - but why wasn't it? Coleman and Rove turned over every single rock they could find to get dirt on Franken. Coleman spent a fortune on attack ads and on the second recount. Why didn't they find the Tweeden incident? And why didn't they find any others like it? Maybe because there weren't any?
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)bdamomma
(63,658 posts)on the SNL team too, then his goal was to be Senator. He is no Roy Moore that is for damn sure.
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)The woman is a bullshit artist that is no longer getting money for tits and ass, she is stuck in some shitty radio station and can't afford her condo in West LA anymore.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)and they keep that stupid child molester Roy Moore, everyone call Mr. McConnell, this is total BS.
Senator Franken is no Roy Moore. Senator Franken is not even my Senator I will call his office to say I support him totally.
C_U_L8R
(44,897 posts)And funnier too. I trust hes handling this kerfuffle well.
TrollBuster9090
(5,953 posts)...I don't think that's why they chose to pull this rabbit out of a hat RIGHT NOW.
That photo has been in their hands for 11 years, and they've been saving it for a rainy day. They decided yesterday was the rainy day because they wanted something to distract from the Roy Moore sex scandals. The fact that THIS was the best they could do in the "whataboutism" distraction department is proof they haven't got very much.
As bad as it may be, the Franken story is a two day story. The Moore story will last for AT LEAST another month, and if he actually gets elected it'll keep on going indefinitely. As will the Trump story.
Trump already shot himself in the foot (and his feet already look like Swiss cheese) by tweeting about Franken. His advisers told him to STFU about Moore AND Franken, lest the brings up the subject of sexual harassment, which he is the MOST guilty of....but the f@#kwit just couldn't help himself. He has no self control.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)I don't think the GOP wants that.
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)as they are running Moore.
GallopingGhost
(2,404 posts)Exactly.
Get rid of anyone who exposes them for the liars they are.
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)Any dirt they had on Al, they've used in this gambit.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Wherein he tried to correct a conservative radio hosts understanding of federal budget expenditures.
Which was ALSO predicted by Roger Stone.
Democrats need to stop furthering what is clearly a false narrative.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)... Every Godsdamned Time?
The VRWC gets to pick us off one by one, while we try to prove what? That we are all saints? No impurity shall pass?
While the GOP gives a pass to their own boy-diddlers, child molesters, diaper-wearers, prostitute-hirers, wife-beaters, and other felonious men?
False equivalency will be the death of us yet.
gordianot
(15,226 posts)In this case an apology was appropriate and quickly provided. Might I add Trump is ripping himself to pieces by acknowledging any case of sexual misconduct. I do expect similar stories to emerge while we are being robbed.
superpatriotman
(6,232 posts)NOT A GROPE!!!
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)He's far brighter than many in Congress (restraining myself from mentioning obvious names). He ruthlessly suppressed his sense of humor during his first term, and it was a relief when he relaxed a bit. A lack of humor is sadly missing in making well-rounded human beings of many of our congresspeople, and that wasn't always the case.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ananda
(28,783 posts)The Reeps want him gone.
They will literally do anything .. even though
they represent the worst of the sexual predators,
including Moore and 45 himself.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)The photo shows a person very explicitly joking about groping a woman without consent. He apparently posed for the photo that took something that is commonly traumatizing to victims. It is clear that he thought it was funny at the time. That this photo exists reveals a disrespect and devaluation of women. And, it's his own fault that it exists. We are discovering the widespread objectification and victimization that has been festering in the entertainment industry. He was part of it, and willingly participated. He is one who is recognizing the problems.
I'm not one to call for his resignation because I think he is handling it with class. I trust his judgement on what to do now. I am glad he isn't crying conspiracy and leveling accusations toward a woman who deserves to be heard in accordance with basic respect we have given other women. He got caught and is taking responsibility.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)He is nothing but a thorn in their side and they want him gone. Well, they aren't going to get rid of him that easily. I only hope he doesn't meet the fate of Paul Wellstone.