The kiss.

[Control-Z]

Franken, a comedian at the time, wrote a skit that featured a moment when his character kisses her, and he wanted to rehearse the kiss, which she didn't want to do. But he insisted.

Did she tell him that? Did she make it clear to him that she didn't want to practice? That she didn't want HIM to kiss her? Or had she avoided practicing by making excuses and beating around the bush up until then? She doesn't say. All we know is what she was thinking.

"I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me."

She said ok. She agreed to practice the kiss. But did she tell him she didn't really mean it? That she had no intention of letting him kiss her and was planning to trick him by turning her head at the last minute? It appears that Al didn't know of her intentions and thought they were going to practice the kiss.

"We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth," Tweeden said.

So Al did exactly what he said he was going to do after she had agreed to it. She has now made it abundabtly clear that she was grossed out by by the kiss. But did he force himself on her? Or did her trick (to turn her her head at the last minute before he could kiss her) fail? She pushed him away and yelled at him which appears to have ended it then and there. Al accepted her rejection and angry reprimand. He didn't try to grab her or kiss her again, or anything of the sort.

But she was angry and Al probably got his man feelings hurt and there was tension throughout the rest of the trip. She says he retaliated by drawing horns on a picture of her and pulling some other childish pranks, the worst, of course, being the staged picture taken while she was sleeping. He wasn't actually touching her but the gesture was appalling and insulting and a show of power.

Nowhere in this story, though, does Al force himself on her that I can tell. He showed childish, middle school behavior at her expense with the prank, fake-groping picture and for that he owed her an apology. I believe he understands now how hurtful it was to make her the brunt of a sexual joke she wasn't in on and he has apologized.

[Control-Z]

4. I try not to let a woman's occupation

cloud my judgement. I can see how her occupation may have made her more attractive to him, though. Her political affiliation has far more bearing on my opinion of her.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. It's totally relevant to this situation. The woman was a paid sex object

I realize that it's politically incorrect to bring up that inconvenient fact, but that's the sad fact, and that's why Franken took the picture.

[Kali]

2. IF there was tongue it was pretty invasive

but agree with the rest and while I hate to be this way to a victim, she has some credibility problems, so that "if" is a big one.

[Control-Z]

6. The thing is

a kiss can be a lot of things. It appears Al was attracted to her but she was not attracted to him. I guess that was part of the point I was trying to make. If she had been attracted to him I doubt the kiss would have bothered her. She may have welcomed it. I don't know. What I do know is that if I were practicing a line with George Clooney and he came in with a forceful tongue kiss I wouldn't reject it. That's a fact. Sex, love and attraction involve a lot of human feelings. It is not always a black and white matter.

I'm honestly starting to believe that while she may have been grossed out by the kiss I think she was far more angry about the picture, as I would be. Being the brunt of any joke, especially a sexual joke, while asleep can be hurtful and embarrassing. But I don't believe for a minute that he actually groped her.

[OriginalGeek]

9. I thought the photgrapher said she was "playing dead"

for the gag photo. not actually asleep?

[Control-Z]

12. During the interview she said she was asleep.

I don't think Al denies that point.

[OriginalGeek]

13. Yep, you're right

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029856689
(A DU thread with a link to snopes dubunking the photogrpaher "quote". Made up by some dipshit who isn't helping)

[moriah]

20. Sorry about the other post, but thanks for the Snopes.

It caught his new ID, too -- it got written after the change but they recognized it was just a handle change.

Go Snopes!

[OriginalGeek]

22. no worries!

until I saw the DU post with the snopes article I had no idea that tweet was discredited. Glad to have plenty of DU'ers to catch me up and I never want to post a mistake so I'm happy to be corrected.

[moriah]

19. Do you have ANY source for this besides this discredited Tweet?

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/16/1716247/-Heads-up-Russians-boosting-Franken-story-per-Hamilton-68

After seeing this he tried to change his ID to unlink it from the Politifact article, apparently, as his new Twitter handle is AidenHagi, but that name still scores a 7/10 on Make Adverbs Great Again.

And still hasn't revealed the source or the photographer's name.

[CTyankee]

10. Well, I don't think George Clooney would do such a thing...

he strikes me as a decent nonsexist guy. But I have the world's biggest crush on him so...

[treestar]

17. If in show business, attraction is not

required. You can be married and still be in a scene where your character kisses someone.

I read an idea that the reason the actors in Hollywood were so attractive (unattractive people could have acting abilities) because of this. That made it less likely someone would be unable to do kissing scenes due to lack of attraction. They were all gorgeous. Even so, you have to fake it or you can't be an actor.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

3. I draw the line where he allegedly put his tongue in her mouth

The other just stupid juvenile bullshit.

[Control-Z]

7. Please read my reply above about tongue.

Personally, I would be far more upset about the photo. (Still, he is not groping her.) Being asleep leaves a person in a terribly vulnerable state. Taking advantage of that state is the problem imo.

[oberliner]

8. One does not stick one's tongue in another person's mouth as part of a stage kiss in a comic skit

Certainly not in a "rehearsal" of the skit - that the other party is clearly not comfortable doing.

[Control-Z]

11. That is the question.

"Certainly not in a "rehearsal" of the skit - that the other party is clearly not comfortable doing".

She's made it clear to us now how grossed out she was. That she agreed to the kiss but didn't really mean it and even planned to trick him by turning her head. Did she make her feelings clear to him before the kiss?

[KT2000]

14. have you seen SNL lately

there have been a few skits with men kissing. They do not hold back.

[oberliner]

21. Presumably they are both comfortable doing so

The key is that this woman is saying she was pressured and coerced.

[moda253]

15. I am having a really hard time understanding

I am having a really hard time understanding how someone forces their tongue into another person's mouth. At a show where there are other people around without him having to tie her up and force her mouth open.


This is some grade A bullshit.

[treestar]

16. Is it in contracts? What is the expectation.

If you refuse to rehearse a scene, can you be fired? That's just part of some scenes.

I would think there is some standard of practice in the industry.

[Control-Z]

18. I don't know the rules.

But even by her description of what happened he didn't assault her. Could she have told him "no tongue" when she was agreeing to the kiss? Had she done that would he have honored her request?