General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill our moral righteousness help us when Franken leaves the Senate and Moore joins it?
Have we lost our collective minds?
The Republicans aren't going to oust their misogynists. How will we be better off if we rid the Senate of Democrats like Al Franken?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/11/17/im-a-feminist-i-study-rape-culture-and-i-dont-want-al-franken-to-resign/?utm_term=.25262db82a1f
It would feel good, momentarily, to see Franken resign and the Democratic governor of Minnesota, Mark Dayton, appoint a senator who has not (as far as we know) harmed women. If I believed for one second that Franken is the only Democrat in the Senate who has done something like this, with or without photographic evidence, I would see that as the best and most appropriate option. But in the world we actually live in, Im betting that there will be more. And more after that. And they wont all come from states with Democratic governors and a deep bench of progressive replacements. Some will, if ousted, have their successors chosen by Republicans.
In other words, if we set this precedent in the interest of demonstrating our partys solidarity with harassed and abused women, were only going to drain the swamp of people who, however flawed, still regularly vote to protect womens rights and freedoms. The legislative branch will remain chockablock with old, white Republican men who regard women chiefly as sex objects and unpaid housekeepers, and well show them how staunchly Democrats oppose their misogynistic attitudes by handing them more power.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)For shitty jokes they made while working as a comedian? Nope. He should not go under the bus. Both Trump and Franken should submit to ethics investigations- only if BOTH do
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)They carefully craft this shit in advance, they are experts at it.
All they had was some bullshit picture and a story cooked up by some ex-sex kitten. Right away everybody is talking about the end of Franken around here. It is all nonsense.
egduj
(805 posts)Can you imagine a society if everyone lived by the "If they're not going to punish their kids for it (stealing cars, doing drugs, groping women...), then I'm not going to punish mine..." rule?
BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)It reads like an every situation must be evaluated on its own post. Thinking people asks questions, they analyze and they come to a conclusion. Only Morons apply a cookie cutter approach to every allegation.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)orangecrush
(19,237 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)if we start attacking men like Al Franken.
egduj
(805 posts)I have trouble finding an example where more sexual harassers in a organization is better than less. Even congress.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Democrat caught up in this hysteria gets replaced by a REPUBLICAN governor, we will be much worse off.
egduj
(805 posts)I think it's bad all the time.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Virtually everyone agrees that joking about sexual assault is stupid and wrong. But the rest of the story is still unclear.
In the photo, Franken pretends to grope Tweeden, without actually touching her (there are shadows under his fingers). She may or may not have been part of the joke. If she was a willing participant in the joke, and was only feigning sleep, then it wasn't harassment. The other people present (the photographer and the man with the red cap -- and there may be others out of camera view) could help clarify this but haven't so far.
As far as the kiss is concerned, she claimed that she didn't want to kiss him but did because it was part of the skit. It's not clear in her statement whether she voiced her reluctance to kiss him, or just tried and failed to avoid him. In any case, she has already accepted his apology.
As far as we know, there are no other accusers, unlike with the other men who have been accused.
panader0
(25,816 posts)of Trump's actions or Moore's actions? Good Grief!
kcr
(15,300 posts)rzemanfl
(29,540 posts)maxsolomon
(32,992 posts)rzemanfl
(29,540 posts)orangecrush
(19,237 posts)Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)What no comment on Pedo Moore?
maxsolomon
(32,992 posts)He certainly has lost Moral Authority in punching back at the GOP, which was probably most of the plan.
This is how Power operates in Russia - that playbook is being executed here piece by piece by a party without Ethics.
mythology
(9,527 posts)For example what if he stabbed a man in Reno just to watch him die? Your logic can be used against any progressive goal. If we support same sex marriage, some people won't vote for us for example. Or look at how much worse we did among white voters after the Civil and Voting Rights Acts. Sometimes you have to pick morality over short term benefit.
Also Moore isn't doing so well in the polls.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)without a bunch of wishy-washy excuses, qualifications, and what-abouts. jeezus f-ing christ; my moral standards do not depend on the political affiliation of the alleged offender.