Help me figure out how to say this. (Yeah, more sexual conduct stuff).

[LAS14]

According to the report, Bittel made female party staffers uncomfortable with body language, comments, and even a breast-shaped stress ball on his desk.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5093601/Florida-Democrats-chair-asked-step-creepiness.html

I've gotten more and more tired of the obsession with sex displayed by the media and all of us. But every time I try to think of a way to express it, I come up with, "Well, of course we have to turn the tide on not believing women," and "There's no way a person should have their career threatened by turning away sexual overtures," etc., etc. But I gotta confess, that phrases like "infantilization of women," keep springing to mind. Today, after reading the story above, I thought, "Sometimes, instead of forcing a guy to resign, we should just say he's a jerk, tell him to get rid of the stress ball and get on with things." How do we draw a line between legislating about being "uncomfortable," and ignoring everything?

Does anyone agree?

Does anyone have some nice succinct, clear language to express this?

[MineralMan]

1. We need to clean house in our party.

If there are assholes like that in party leadership, they need to be gone and their departure made public, along with the reason for it.

It's simple. We cannot allow people who treat women as objects to be part of our party's leadership. Period.

[LAS14]

2. So if you have a choice between....

... a jerk who's got a track record of getting things done for the environment, or putting a dent in income inequality or, or... we should through him under the bus in favor of a strictly "moral" person who's destroying our environment or giving tax cuts to the top 1%??? I'm not talking about the Florida guy here. I'm just pointing out the inadvisability of putting one issue above all others. Especially when the harm done is "discomfort."

[MineralMan]

3. Our party includes at least 50% women.

At least. There should be no room in leadership for sexism. Period. There are plenty of people who push for our high-priority goals who do not have boob stress balls on their desks and who don't create a hostile environment for women. It's not a matter of putting one issue above the rest at all. It is about not having people in leadership positions who have contempt for half of the party's members.

There's no need for compromise on issues. None whatsoever.

[Drahthaardogs]

37. Humans are flawed creatures, but we are capable of change

I find your calling for a purge naive at best, obnoxious at worst.

Let he among you without sin cast the first stone.

[MineralMan]

39. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Really.

[Irish_Dem]

4. I understand your position, but perhaps you are male and do not understand what it is like

to be female in a patriarchal society. Where women are fair game, and men feel free to grab them,
display their penises, now even in the air (recent military pilot air drawing.) These displays are either the height of narcissism or threats, the male penis has been weaponized. And a stress ball shaped like a breast is the same, your boss is squeezing that, will your breast be next?

And I also understand your position that there are degrees of offenses. Some men think they are being funny, or just flirting, or just having some fun. But it is all at the expense of women who are typically not amused and do not know how far this guy will go. A "joke" that upsets other people, or scares them is not much of a joke and is not harmless.

The bottom line is that women want to feel safe, to feel comfortable, to work, go to school, walk the streets without males acting badly, whatever the degree.

What would it feel like you for you to work with someone like the man in the article but it was personally targeted to you? Sexual jokes, harassment, overtures? On a daily basis? Would that seem benign?

All men should have to dress and act like women for one month and see what it is like out there.
Kind of like a female version of "Black Like Me."

[JayhawkSD]

5. There are two sides to that coin

Perhaps you are a female and do not understand what it feels like to be a man in a political environment where it is unforgivable to vote for a man; not only is it not okay to vote for him because he is a man, but it is not okay to vote to vote for him for any reason if he is a man. But it is entirely okay to vote for a woman because she is a woman. It is, in fact, okay and even commendable to vote for a woman for no other reason than that she is a woman.

[MineralMan]

6. What an odd thing to say. I've never heard anyone say that people

should not vote for someone simply because that candidate is a man. Nor have I ever heard anyone suggest that a women should get a vote simply because she is a woman.

I don't know. Maybe you can show me some examples of anyone saying such things. I vote for people based on who they are, what issues they support and the quality of their characters. Whether they are men or women plays no role in my decision.

Can you give some examples that illustrate your point?

[Irish_Dem]

10. I am female and do not think the way you describe.I believe in freedom to vote for the best person.

I didn't agree with the pressure to vote for a candidate because of her gender. That turned me off too.
Obama never played that card about his race and I respected him for it.

So I agree with you.

[Demsrule86]

12. If you are referring to Hillary Clinton then don't...I see some serious Clinton bashing going on

here. Hillary Clinton never said vote for me " I am a woman".

[Irish_Dem]

14. I didn't mention any names and I won't.

I respect Hillary as a fine public servant and wouldn't embarrass her in public.

I was responding to a male who had some legit issues for the sake of healing the male/female differences right now. Not about Hillary or politics.

[Demsrule86]

15. It is pretty clear since she was the Democratic nominee...and she never said vote for me as I am

a woman...what is the point of these posts anyway? The only 'man' you could vote for in 16 was Trump...so I am at a loss.

[SandyZ]

20. Legitimate? No one has ever said a Dem is only allowed to vote woman, because a woman. No men.

And, men have had the position of power and dominance in politics and everything else forever. There was nothing legitimate about that post unless the stupid 2016 battle. That is the only place men have been stating women voted for a vagina, as offensive as that was, and continues to be. Sarandon anyone?

[brer cat]

23. So "I didn't agree with the pressure to vote for a candidate because of her gender"

wasn't about Hillary or politics? And I seriously doubt that anything you say would "embarrass" Hillary.

[prayin4rain]

19. What planet are you describing? nt

[brer cat]

21. I sure am sorry that it is so hard to be a man in this political environment.

It is simply unforgivable that after more than 225 years of choosing between male #1 or male #2, sometimes male #3, (although the first one didn't count because there was only father-of-our-country to vote for) Hillary Clinton had the audacity to fuck this up by showing that a Presidential candidate could wear heels with a pantsuit. Of course, it had already been seriously fucked up by the 15th and 19th amendments which halted the previous totally fair and balanced practice of limiting voters to white males who owned property. I'll bet that really stung! God (who coincidentally is depicted by most religions as male) knows that would never have passed if the enlightened voters had foreseen the possibility that skin color and the absence of a penis might at some date in the future factor into one's choice on the ballot.

I do hope it made you feel at least a little bit better when Susan Sarandon gave you guys some cover by introducing "vagina voting" into the vernacular. If a Hollywood actress says women can only think with their nether regions, why would you guys think any different?

As a female, I can tell you it was a thrilling moment at the Democratic convention of 2016 when the plank was added requiring all Democrats to become vagina voters whether they possessed one or not. Take that, Susan! The part about how males would be castrated if they voted with their penis was just a joke. Ha ha, vagina voters sure have a good sense of humor. Did you really fall for that, silly man?

[sheshe2]

24. ***Boom***

Brava, brer cat!

[trof]

34. And THAT, my dears, is a RIGHTEOUS RANT!!!

WooHoo!

[ehrnst]

36. +1000. (nt)

[betsuni]

38. Heh

[mcar]

26. Link to where anyone said that, ever here?

[Squinch]

27. What a load.

[Skittles]

32. what exactly are you talking about?

HILLARY WAS THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON TO *EVER* RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

there were people who DIDN'T vote for her BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN, *NOT* the other way around

[ehrnst]

35. Where did you hear that people vote for woman only because they are women?

Bitter men who lose to more qualified women? Bob McDonnell among them...

Yeah, I remember all those who flocked to Palin, and got behind Bachmann and Fiorina, because you know - they're women, and that's all we think about when we get behind a candidate...

That sounds about as respectful and realistic as the teapartiers who said that people who voted for Obama were doing so because he was black.

Of course in some circles on the left, that would be unacceptable to insinuate. But when it comes to women, not so much.

[LAS14]

17. Interesting...

I'm a woman, and I've never expected all my environments to be "benign" to the extent that I wouldn't encounter jerks that I needed to tell in one way or another to fuck off.

[Irish_Dem]

18. Perhaps I am tilting at windmills to expect a jerk free environment at work and school.

And some women don't have the courage to tell men to fuck off or fear loss of jobs.

I admire the way you handle all of it.

[Squinch]

28. Sadly, I suspect the jerks will always be with us.

[Lulu KC]

7. It is complex

Sorry I can never deliver with succinct, but I am seeing it, too.

What I would really like to see: Democrats including Bill Clinton standing up and saying, "I have recognized these problems in myself." Then take steps to correct now that they see the problems. In the case of Bill, I'd love it if he would say, "I realized I had a serious problem and sought help." I am assuming that happened because I don't think HRC would have tolerated less. It would raise the bar by making those who don't own their own stuff even more visible.

There is a difference between dumb cultural norms and sex addiction and pedophilia and hostile workplace discomfort and there are any number of other classifications within this giant mess of misogynistic culture.

Own it, guys--and women, if we are in it--either as perpetrators of sexual abuse, participants with Stockholm syndrome, or enablers.

We are at a good point when powerful white guys are losing their jobs because it's breaking open--but there's a continuum. At this point, visibly, I'd put Al Franken on one end and the so-called president is at the other end, especially with under-age rape charges.

[Demsrule86]

11. Leave Bill Clinton alone...period end of story...very different if it is a consensual relationship.

Why don't we concentrate on the fact the Moore attempted to have sex with underage girls instead. Stop letting the GOP call the tune people.

[Lulu KC]

16. Always consensual?

I am suggesting that he show what a good guy does. I believe he is a good guy who apparently had a problem. Please don't lump me in with people who are attacking him. I am not.

[Demsrule86]

29. I have a problem with bring Clinton into this...as he is not involved...why do we allow the GOP to

lead us around by the nose...Franken is a put up job and Clinton was impeached for having an affair...and I don't want to hear how Clinton should demonstrate 'being a good guy'...it has been more than 20 years,lets not do the GOP work of destroying Democrats for them. I wish we had Clinton back. He was a great presiden and way better than Donnie2Scoops. Mark my words...the GOP will be on a mission for a while of having their rightie liars come out and accuse Democratic men of sexual whatever...they will discuss Clinton over and over...don't fall for it.

[Demsrule86]

8. What is the point? The guy resigned.

[MineralMan]

13. And rightly so.

I had never heard of him, but I don't live there. The leadership of our state and local Democratic Party organization probably isn't known to anyone outside of Minnesota, either. For that matter, they're probably not well-known even here.

However, the Minnesota DFL is well-balanced in its leadership. Our bylaws require population-based representation on matters of gender, race, and other identifiers, and we're quite firm on that.

I doubt that an openly sexist man would last long in the DFL Party leadership.

[Demsrule86]

30. I have no doubt of that MM...just the what aboutism I see here and elsewhere. Why do

we play the GOP game?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. You're not tired of the obsession with sex by the media.

You're tired of the realization of how much toxic masculinity, expressed in a specific sexual way, permeates our culture.

[LAS14]

22. Are you assuming I'm male, like...

...Irish_Dem in response #4? Just curious.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. No, why? My observation can apply to people of any gender.

[mcar]

25. You're defending this guy?

Bittel won the top party post after a disputed election. He was forced to offer his resignation in June after a party gala in Hollywood in which Bittel referred to some black lawmakers “childish.” They accepted his apology. In September, the party won a key special Senate election in Miami, and in November, it notched another victory in reelecting St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Kriseman.

"There was a lot of boob stuff in his office,” a former fundraiser who interacted with Bittel told Politico Florida. Several women said they tried not to leave each other alone with Bittel in his office, home or private jet.

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2017/11/17/florida-democratic-chair-resigns-over-being-creepy/

He called black lawmakers childish and women wouldn't be alone with him but it's OK because he's a Democrat? Really?

[moriah]

31. Men themselves don't know what to do when *they're* harassed, in my experience.

I've worked in tech for ages, have a thick skin, have a very defensive "work persona" designed to seem perfectly professional and not at all a sex object, etc.

Yet I've had to deal with passes, etc. Emulating Daria with my deadpan "Oh, baby. Oh, baby. Oh." shut most things down. If just showing lack of interest wasn't enough, I've upped the ante. Wwhen a guy who wouldn't stop flirting with me on a business trip convinced the rest of the guys we had enough time to stop at the XXX store, instead of staying in the car I gave a demonstration that I had experience using a cat-o-nine tails while trying to pretend I didn't know it was creating an audience, then bought a toy one for my keychain -- guess whipping a willing male store associate worked to "up the ante".

(I was a little nervous about it potentially being his actual kink, but I'd been asserting I was taken the entire time, and no male sub I've ever worked with treated women that way...)

I've had direct discussions within sight but out of earshot of witnesses, making sure we were seen to be the standard 3+ feet away from each other the entire time, and told someone their behavior wasn't appropriate and if it continued I'd report.

But when a straight guy at work loved to air-hump other guys at their desks, they were angry, frustrated, humiliated... and had no idea what to do besides attempt to ignore him. He never did it to me, because we'd had one of those talks before and knew he'd get an elbow to the groin before the HR call, but nothing I'd done to make stuff stop seemed appropriate for them as men, they said.

Since we all knew he was macho heterosexual and he was air-humping for dominance, my suggestion of one of them saying in an OTT voice "Oh honey, have some *patience*! You know I'll take good care of you when we get home" wasn't something they were willing to do -- not even the very married guy who everyone would know it was a joke from.

If they don't know what to do when a guy harasses THEM...

Is it any wonder they don't see why they shouldn't harass us?