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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo, Joy, Sen. Franken didn't admit to kissing a woman without her consent.
He said that he recalled the kiss differently. I had to go back to see if I heard that right.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)she corrects the record.
demmiblue
(36,744 posts)Regardless, her show is must see TV for me on the weekends.
You would think that any guest on her show would have learned by now that it is the Democratic party!
C_U_L8R
(44,891 posts)It was part of the comedy skit.
Whether there was tongue or not is up for debate.
It is certainly not the first stage kiss ever.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... the skit.
So no witnesses. Which sadly is both when a potential creep might feel an opportunity to push boundaries exists, and when the truly rare vile people who make false accusations would say they happened.
But no, all he's admitted to is taking the picture, equivalent to drawing a dick on someone's face at a sleepover. Juvenile asshattery.
Now, hopefully, though, him submitting to an investigation will take all sting out of this accusation coming after Beverly Young Nelson wanted to testify before that same committee, and let us investigate the asshat accused of forcing juveniles to submit to *him*.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)that she agreed to practicing the skit, with the written kiss. She didn't like the kiss being in the skit, but she agreed to it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She said she was pressured into rehearsing the skit and eventually relented under heavy pressure and coercion to rehearse. She also said that she assumed during the rehearsal that he would not thrust his tongue into her mouth.
moriah
(8,311 posts)You can also, as Franken says happened, rehearse a "stage kiss" without mashing wet mouth or forcing tongue (since he said he remembers things differently than she claims, I'm going with that being a denial of at least the tongue allegation).
One thing I wish people would remember is that probably, as a model who has posed for photos, as a performer at bawdy USO shows, Tweeden may have a much thicker skin than a lot of women about getting catcalls or hoot and holler reactions to seeing her, but at the same time might have also developed a stronger sense of *where* her boundaries were as a result of them getting unintentionally pushed by soldiers, etc. And have potentially stronger reactions than someone might expect when they're violated, because of needing to have those boundaries so firmly drawn.
In her introduction she pretty much said all any soldier would get was a hug, and *maybe* a kiss on the cheek if she chose. That tells me she does have defined boundaries about just how far she's willing to let people take her act for the troops -- and potentially has had reasons outside of any alleged rehearsal for why she felt it was better to state outright she was willing to be eyecandy, but still demanded respect of her boundaries.
I imagine a lot of models and even strippers have very strong reactions when someone crosses their boundaries and does more than look. They might even have had enough experiences of it happening that they would have potentially violent reactions to even what they thought was a start in that direction.
At the same time, on the Tapper interview after hearing Al's statement, Tweeden didn't really push back on him saying he didn't recall the backstage incident the same way. She didn't preface her statement about accepting his apology with something snarky like "We must record memory very differently, but..." She said he seemed heartfelt and sincere. She *also* noted that the issue wasn't that Al Franken was the worst person on the planet, but that our culture finds immature juvenile asshat behavior funny.
Tapper seemed surprised she seemed so accepting and not fighting the fact he still denied the backstage answer, and fed her a reason, that "all she wanted was an apology". Which she very gladly took. Which rings warning bells for me that she knew she was using exaggerated language ("groping" ) to describe the photo, even if that might have been what seeing the photo made her immediately think of him doing.
Still, it's not entirely impossible she had learned to embrace her anger and firmly say no from previous times people had pushed boundaries, and that was why she allegedly still wanted to "punch" Franken 3 minutes before but on hearing that even if he was denying tongue for the sake of the public he had apologized and said people needed to look at themselves and what they think is funny or appropriate, she realized how much more she would want to punch a boss who did something like that, or how much she would have REALLY wanted to punch someone who hurt a child.
So. I don't know. I do think Franken is handling this perfectly. I want us to be more like Franken.
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)No matter what, the jump from allegedly wanting to punch Franken to suddenly saying he wasn't the cause of the problem, his behavior was a symptom of the culture....
Certainly was enough to make Tapper raise brows and feed her a reason for such a flip.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And put in the kiss against her objections.
And demanded that she rehearse the kiss with him, against her objections.
And stuck his tongue in her mouth while kissing her ostensibly for the "skit rehearsal", against her objections.
Stage kisses for a USO comedy skit do not generally involve sticking one's tongue in someone else's mouth.
CatMor
(6,212 posts)Franken says he remembers it differently. He deserves to tell his version. He apologized for the photo.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It is only the "rehearsal" that he says he remembers differently, though he has not said anything about how he remembers it. There is nothing stopping him from doing so.
CatMor
(6,212 posts)her word is being taken by many as the truth. Is it really? You don't find it strange she comes out at this point in time. I do find it questionable
oberliner
(58,724 posts)One would think they would say, "I did not forcibly kiss this person against her will" right off the bat.
My take is: I believe her statement. And I also believe the RW-ers are using the incident for political purposes (and to distract from other, more serious, offenses on the RW side).
CatMor
(6,212 posts)A formal investigation is different. You are then under oath.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And I am happy to say so under oath or as part of any investigation."
CatMor
(6,212 posts)I want both to be under oath with other witnesses there.
You find it strange that she would come out at this point in time? You ARE aware that this is exactly what they are saying about Moores accusers? That this is exactly what they said about the women who accused Trump of sexual assault?
I hate hypocrisy in all forms, whether its coming from the left or from the right. Al has apologized for his conduct, which basically amounts to a stupid prank and an inappropriate kiss. As Hillary said earlier today, offering an apology is something neither Roy Moore or Donald Trump have chosen to do. Lets focus on THAT, rather then trying to smear the accuser.
Kingofalldems
(38,361 posts)How do you know?
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)said he remembers it differently which in essence he is disputing her account without actually coming out and saying so.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)All he has said with regard to this particular component of the story is that he "remembers the rehearsal differently" as opposed to something like "I absolutely did not forcibly kiss this woman, or any person, against her will".
Generally, I am inclined to believe a woman who makes an accusation like this, especially when the person accused is not categorically refuting the claim.
question everything
(47,264 posts)He wrote a kiss for the skit. Why? He "cupped" her breasts.
Yes, Franken is far from being Trump or Moore, and he immediately apologized and she accepted the apologies. So why tar her?
Cary
(11,746 posts)Or both, or neither?
For the record I am a white male and I feel victimized by whomever it is who is wedging liberals on this issue.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Not the OP here, but still, that's my issue.
Every allegation should be heard out -- and if it's about someone you have strong feelings about either way, accused or alleged victim, you should try to take those emotions out of your reasoning process while hearing them out -- and taken seriously, not blown off as "no big deal because *insert irrelevant negative about alleged victim or accused*", but facts gathered, including the accused's side of the story.
That's a rule that can be applied whether you are Democrat or Republican, whether you want to believe the victim or the accuser, both, or neither.
It's something you can do even the allegation is suspicious on its face -- you can still try to listen with an open mind, agree that if the behavior described actually happened it was wrong (in this case, re the photo, "juvenile immature asshat" wrong not "asshat who hurts immature juveniles" wrong, but still wrong), and agree any allegation is serious because all are one of the following: either a person has been victimized, or they're victmizing the accused by making a false allegation (unlikely just based on statistics in RL but still does happen).
I just want us to be better than the Republicans, not wedge us against each other. And while most have, there's been some vile horseshit on this forum that has triggered ME as a sexual assault victim -- the only "guilty victim" is one who is making a false accusation, all others, virgin or crackwhore, have no need to "earn" the status of "innocent victim".
Fortunately there's also been 20 responses condemning such posts for every one I've seen.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)She is friends with Sean Hannity. Pay attention to the timeline in the situation. Sean Hannity gives Roy Moore a 24-hour notice. Steve Bannon calls Sean Hannity tells him to back off a boy more. A day later this woman LeeAnn comes out with this fabricated story.
2 minutes into this video Sean Hannity and her talked about the photo and how he knew about it years ago.
VMA131Marine
(4,123 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 18, 2017, 02:19 PM - Edit history (2)
I got the impression from her response that Tweeden was not expecting Franken to issue such a complete, and seemingly heartfelt, mea culpa. If this was timed to to take the heat off Roy Moore, it's only made him look worse by his continued stonewalling. This does not mean that Franken did not do what she said he did and that she was not genuinely aggrieved at the time. At the same time, it does not rule out the possibility that she colluded with other RW'ers, like her friend Hannity - who seemed to have prior knowledge of the photo, to release the accusation of improper conduct at a particularly damaging moment.
dhol82
(9,351 posts)I dont expect she will.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)wryter2000
(46,016 posts)The ethics investigation will be done. Franken will remain a Senator. Unless other allegations appear, the issue will go away if we stop talking about it.