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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDoes anyone get it yet?
Democrats - and Americans, are up against a white nationalist (nazi) cult, manipulated by a crime family mixed up with Russian organized crime, being financed, aided and abetted by Russian intelligence under the control of Vladimir Putin.
You do not win against this by fighting fair and playing by the rules, expecting them to do the same because you do is dangerously naive.
PJMcK
(21,995 posts)I'm confident it will make sense and follow our Constitution.
Thank you, in advance.
Not turning on strong Democratic leaders when they are the object of a hit job would be a great start, and does not violate the Constitution, to the best of my knowledge.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)and we're better than that stuff. Sometimes it's quite annoying because the other party pulling this crap is SUCCEEDING.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Work for Dems - I don't know why we keep using it. It's like bringing a knife to the gunfight that republicans start.
tblue37
(65,218 posts)Leith
(7,808 posts)Well, not all of us. There are still some here who whine about sinking to their level. Even worse, those of us who get it risk having our posts hidden if we speak our minds or unmask the concern trolls.
I really wish that this board would take a good look at some posters.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)That is where I'm pinning my hopes.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)doc03
(35,295 posts)for a comedy skit he did in a combat zone entertaining our troops. We have our priorities.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Exactly.
mreilly
(2,120 posts)... Republicans will prey upon our decency and desire to be "fair" by thinking we have to make Al Franken fall on his sword for a semi-consensual kiss which IN NO FUCKING WAY compares to preying upon teenage girlsl
It's simple. They want Franken to resign? Then get Moore to drop out of the race and get that fucking shitstain in the White House to resign. Then they can demand Franken resign.
PERIOD. Not playing the game their way, by their rules - not ever.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Your post says it all well.
SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)But here's a less charitable assessment. You're throwing our most reliable voting blocks under the bus for a grown man who didn't know pretending to grab a woman's breasts without consent, and possibly hounding her into a kiss she didn't want wasn't appropriate. I knew that in middle school. You're saying that some degree of sexual harassment must be accepted by women because a particular man is important.
FuzzyRabbit
(1,967 posts)I agree with you, comrade.
But seriously, those who would discard one of the most effective democrats merely because he was accused by an outspoken Trump supporter, are not part of a "reliable" Democratic voting block. Remember, Franken's accuser appears frequently on Fox news to praise Trump.
If the congress does, as Franken asks, investigate this accusation and find him to be unworthy of holding a government office, only then it will be OK for your "reliable voting block" to turn him out.
In the meantime, let all Democrats remember that the Republicans and their Russian masters want to divide Democratic party supporters and will use any means possible, including lies, misinformation, dirty tricks, and trolling on social media like this website.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Call him and tell him you do.
202) 224-5641
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)...of his MN offices and it took the vm. The box was not already full. People need to be calling.
202) 224-5641
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)n/t
Agree
We need to get our priorities straight on this
global1
(25,224 posts)he leans Repug and makes yearly trips to D.C. to lobby in behalf of a professional association he is in that also leans Repug.
His profession is under siege by a government department and I asked him what the association now thinks of this given they lean Repug and they have Trump in D.C. upturning everything.
His answer to me is that he's never seen D.C. into so much turmoil and confusion and he and his association don't blame the Repugs because they don't recognize Trump as being a Repug.
As I didn't want to get into it with him because I value his friendship - I just moved on to another topic. However, I have to reflect on how he and his association is approaching this. They are not blaming Repugs - just saying that Trump is most probably the problem and he is not a Repug.
It's interesting how people can rationalize. Hmmmm.....
I'm adding to this post here because I think it uncovers a bigger problem. If the People don't associate Trump with the Repugs - that means that come election time - the Repugs still have a good chance of retaining their power base. They will still vote Repug.
Also - the Dems need to tie the Repugs to Trump every chance they get. They need to run against the Repugs and not just Trump.
Trump is just running interference for them. If we approach 2018 like we did 2016 and make the midterms just about Trump and not the Repugs - we're going to see the same results and the Repugs will retain their power base in Congress.
We need to make 2018 about the Repugs. Remember - Trump isn't running for anything in 2018 - but the whole House is up for grabs and we need to campaign against the Repugs if you want to take back the House. There are a number of Repug Senators up for re-election and we need to run against them as well.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)You just described their two most powerful tools.
America has never seen anything like this before, and is reeling before the onslaught.
Much like the countries in Europe did before the blitz.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)void of decent leadership at the top.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)hijacking the party. Let him just think about that for awhile.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,955 posts)joshdawg
(2,646 posts)This is not rocket science.
trump is the poster boy for the GOP.
dhol82
(9,352 posts)I will surely embed it in any discussions I have with the general public.
Never know when you can convert to the force for good.
tblue37
(65,218 posts)Denzil_DC
(7,222 posts)Does that include dragging up anything at all from somebody's past life?
Does that include grabbing on to any anonymous twitter post that fits the agenda you want to be true?
Does that include ignoring how Al Franken has chosen to deal with this and just chasing your tail endlessly and clutching at any straw to explain away something that probably won't be a big deal in the long run if Franken's half the human being and politician I believe he is and ensuring this story gets another turn in DU's news cycle?
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Recognizing right wing bullshit when I see it and not swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)....isn't fighting dirty. It's fighting stupid.
We don't believe that kind of bullshit.
That only works on stupid people.
Right?
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)care to address this part of the op?
"Democrats - and Americans, are up against a white nationalist (nazi) cult, manipulated by a crime family mixed up with Russian organized crime, being financed, aided and abetted by Russian intelligence under the control of Vladimir Putin."
Iggo
(47,534 posts)Is that the kind of dirty fighting that you're talking about?
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Your halo is blinding me.
bathroommonkey76
(3,827 posts)"F*ck your kumbaya! When they go low, we go lower, these people are crazy!"
dhol82
(9,352 posts)xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)And she is right.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)intelligent individuals will not work with republicans. Most can only process short stupid one liners, one reason Trump works well with them.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Much appreciated.
Skittles
(153,111 posts)orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Trump and his gang will not stand.
BigmanPigman
(51,567 posts)if the Dems should play dirty by following the GOP handbook or still go with the attitude "When they go low, we go high". Most of his guests said we need to have maturity and class and Bill gets really pissed off. I am with him. I am sick of having sand kicked in the Dem face year after year. Where has it gotten us...we are being fucked by the GOP. I agree with Bill Maher and have since Clinton was in office and had to deal with Newts.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Is a right wing value.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)solution. We've seen this over several decades, some dems more like republicans.
moriah
(8,311 posts)orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Tuck is credited with waving a train out of the station while Nixon was still speaking. Tuck has at times taken responsibility claiming "Nixon's up there talking and suddenly the crowd goes out like the morning tide"[6] while at other times he has denied it entirely[7] saying that he did borrow a conductor's hat and wave to the engineer, but the train stayed put.[7]
In 1968, Tuck utilized Republican nominee Nixon's own campaign slogan against him; he hired a very pregnant African-American woman to wander around a Nixon rally in a predominantly white area, wearing a T-shirt that said, "Nixon's the One!"[8]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Tuck
moriah
(8,311 posts)What I do:
Attempt to distance my own emotions from it, particularly if they're strong and I find myself wanting to dis/believe before hearing the full story.
Then I listen to what the alleged victim says happened. I wait for any response from the person who was accused.
I then try to weigh the facts.
----
What I DON'T do:
Take Twitter or other social media as Gospel truth during a breaking news event unless they're linking to "regular" news, and even then I try to remember "regular news" sometimes inaccurately accuses people of things like bigamy and identity theft without doing proper fact-checking during juicy news events.
Defend or minimize the behavior described, whether or not I believe it to be a true allegation. Doing so actually implies you are afraid it is true.
Dismiss an allegation *solely* because of the political affiliation of the alleged victim or the accused. If other things come out that discredit an allegation or after hearing it out with as open of a mind I can it just doesn't sound real, political affiliations might be used to explain why someone would have motive... but motive isn't proof. (Edit to add: someone accused of raping his stepdaughter likely will have plenty of people with motive to shoot them -- it was mighty considerate of the one I wanted to shoot that he elected to give himself extreme sanction OUT of state, rather than here.)
Use the alleged victim's sexual history or sexual behavior to excuse crossing consent boundaries. The only possible relevant history is previous times the alleged victim has made demonstrably false accusations of similar conduct using similar language, and in court that should be considered OUTSIDE the presence of the jury before it's decided if it's similar enough to the current allegation to be relevant.
-------
If I can't hold myself to those standards, I can't hold others to them. And that's what I mean about compromising my integrity.
bathroommonkey76
(3,827 posts)because Roger Stone and an Infowars "reporter" both tweeted about this scandal before it broke into the mainstream.
Everything Roger Stone and Infowars are associated with are toxic lies. Tweeden is nothing but a RWNJ who is trying to bring down Sen. Franken. Fuck her lies and her hypocrisy.
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
moriah
(8,311 posts)Don't you know how much they *love* being able to point to shit like that and say "See? Thess liberals go on SlutWalks saying how someone dresses doesn't matter, but look at what happens when the hot girl is Conservative? They are all hypocrites! It's all about politics!"
Thank you, no, I won't help opposition research by saying that slut-shaming shit you just posted there is any way acceptable.
Response to moriah (Reply #44)
Post removed
moriah
(8,311 posts)She isn't ashamed to have modeled, so you aren't doing any good.
She shouldn't BE ashamed of having done so, either. There are many things she should hang her head in shame for (Hannity, Trump) but having a nice body allowing it to be ogled on her terms isn't one.
This shit only makes us look bad.
bathroommonkey76
(3,827 posts)showing her grabbing men's crotches and patting them on their asses. Sure, she was having fun showing off to the men in un
This lady is a full blown Roger Stone plant - You're too blinded by the politically correct bubble you live in to even see it!
And I really could give two shits about some dumb model. The only reason she appeared at those USO gigs was for her Playboy and other modeling photoshoots.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I don't appreciate personal attacks.
I don't like to alert, but I've called you on your posts and your actions, not said that *you* were anything. You have said I am blind and have no backbone.
To be frank, I don't "give two shits" about arguing with someone who decides to resort to personal attacks. So unless you can stop attacking me while trying to defend your viewpoint, please go play elsewhere.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)It will take time, and I have full confidence this will be exposed as a right wing hit job.
If I turn out to be wrong, Franken will face the consequences.
Until then, he has my full support.
moriah
(8,311 posts)He's not doing any of the "don'ts" in my list.
And by admitting he was an immature juvenile asshat to take the photo and calling for himself to submit to an investigation of such behavior and anything else, he's accomplished two objectives.
1) If Tweeden and crew are going to keep on, he's going to get enough people who will be able to vouch that he didn't make actual physical contact with her vest while she was unaware. It's pretty clear in the photo that they're using angle to give the impression, without making contact. Since in my state at least forcible Frenching isn't a sex crime (you might be able to get simple assault, but that's it), but if one finger touched the vest and she wasn't awake in my state he'd be guilty of a sex crime... but he's not.
And while it certainly might have made Tweeden feel violated in a similar way to a picture of someone actually groping her... she baaaaacked off that word quick. She's not going to enjoy testifying that she exaggerated what was done to express the emotion she may have experienced, causing great slander to Franken by people who only read headlines that jumped on that word. I think Jake Tapper knew what was up when she went from saying she still wanted to punch him to saying he was sincere and that she believed he meant what he said and didn't want any investigation, because he fed her a graceful out -- that all she wanted was an apology. That could very well be all many victims want, but she certainly didn't sound eager to go under oath either.
2) It takes any "whataboutism" out of the way of calls for Beverly Young Nelson's request to testify under oath about her accusations against an asshat who has allegedly forced multiple immature juveniles to submit to *him*.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)The_jackalope
(1,660 posts)It's just mobsters all the way down.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Actually doing anything about it is Mueller.
The_jackalope
(1,660 posts)Eric Schneiderman, for instance, and a cast of (probably literally) thousands.
But Bob Mueller is the point of the spear. If he can pull this off, he'll be known as Superman for generations to come.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,488 posts)We need to implement new and LOUD ways to call them out on this tax bill and their destruction of our government. We can't effectively play their tit-for-tag games in the social and morals games because they have the bully pulpit, a cable news channel and hundreds of talk radio stations - not to mention several very powerful think tanks that create the feeds. Democrats throwing shit against the wall on social media is a waste of good electrons and time.
Repugs are experts at this game. They create a constant head-spinning feed of lies and distortions from dozens of different directions every day to keep the public numb and confused, and they have the money to keep the machine running forever. Most liberal counter-attacks are so diluted, they are simply not effective - and usually come after the fact.
I suspect our most efficient means of counter-attack would be highly targeted, laser-precise ads on hot button issues such as cuts to education, destruction of workplace protections and environmental damage. Along with grassroots support (us), if we could somehow enlist the help of a group of wealthy liberals such as Tom Steyer to create ads on TV and in newspapers, and perhaps billboards, that might start to erode the right-wing machine.
Nuf sed, rant done.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)Democrats need to relentlessly call them out on their shit.
EricMaundry
(1,619 posts)This one deserves another look.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)I wish it weren't true.
VOX
(22,976 posts)If you wrote a script with such a far-fetched plot, critics would pan it for being too fantastic, just too far-out to allow for willing suspension of disbelief.
Unfortunately for all Americans and most of the world, the "script" in this case is sour-note-for-sour-note true, and can be thoroughly documented within genuine, measurable reality, the one in which FACTS and LAWS actually exist.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)we are living it.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Because we are up against a crushingly powerful monster, in terms of its resources, resolve and zealotry.
Unfortunately, theres that intractable 33%-38% of Americans who continue to believe that Trumps bicycle seat smells like a fucking bouquet of roses. They wave the flag and pound the bible, but for all their bullshit jabbering about liberty, patriots and personal freedom, these zombies are salivating over the prospect of this country transforming into a fascist dictatorship. Theyd have blended well in 1930s Germany, where another crazy fucker also roped in the gullible public with promises of making the homeland great again.
orangecrush
(19,409 posts)in WW2 if this continues much longer.