What has DU come to we have numerous posts condeming a Democratic Senator for

[doc03]

a comedy routine while entertaining in a combat zone. But we have a president that brags about assaulting women,. We have the Congress plotting to raid our country and give $1.5 trillion to billionaires and not one post about either.

[Kingofalldems]

1. Lots of piling on.

[doc03]

4. I gotta take a break for a while before I smash my computer nt

[FakeNoose]

24. The trolls are coming out in droves

I've sen lots of troll posts here in the past few days, trying to stir up trouble.

Just remember - anybody who comes on DU and demands that Al Franken resign is a troublemaker. They should forfeit their DU membership. They don't belong here. We stick together and fight for what's right.

[MFM008]

25. Exactly

.....

[Paladin]

31. +1000.

[trueblue2007]

35. we should alert on the Anti-democratic posts now !!!!

don't let the troll people lie about our democrats and say mean things.

[Demsrule86]

63. I am not one to alert, but I have to say, I almost did it a couple of times...few and far between

for me usually...has to be really really bad.

[sharedvalues]

36. Painter (ex-Bush atty) agrees

Link to tweet

[oasis]

41. + one zillion

[joshdawg]

70. You are correct of course,

but according to right-wingers IOKIYAR.
Anything goes.
Democrats play by the rules, but republicans make up rules as they go along. Their motto: Do as I say, not as I do.

Today's republican party should be outlawed. Lock'em all up!

[sharedvalues]

88. Right. We need to stand on our values: fair opportunities for all and a middle class dream

Because the GOP has no moral standing - their only goal is to enrich their donors at all costs.

Link to tweet

[Soph0571]

38. I don't think he should resign

I think he is an ally - but he did act like a dick. He has recognised that and apologised, that should be an end to it. However, as a newbie to this site I have concerns about calling for people to be banned if they do not agree with you and how you think the fight should be fought? For some a call for him to resign is the right call. Why would that make them a troll?

[airmid]

46. I agree....I love Sen. Franken. I love his dry wit, intelligence,

And willingness to fight for what is right. We need him there, fighting for all of us.

[ariadne0614]

110. I agree.

Count me among those who fiercely want him to stay and fight. I will note, and promptly dismiss the demands for his resignation, knowing they fall on a continuum from Russian trolls (the enemy) to liberal Democratic purists (misguided, yet well-intentioned allies). With everything that’s going on, it seems silly to expend so much energy on outrage.

[Demsrule86]

58. They reveal themselves...some have called the Franken thing sexual assault...which clearly it was

not...a skit with a kiss...the whataboutism shows a hatred of Democrats from surprising sources.

[TheDebbieDee]

69. I agree, I believe most of the ones calling for Sen Franken's resignation are either Russian trolls

or RWNJs...

And the Dem pols calling for Sen Franken's resignation are weak, spineless, easily-spooked Dems who will throw us ALL under the bus at the first sign of trouble.

[Demsrule86]

82. I agree...and would add to that list...left left Green Party types who

hate Democrats. You can always tell who they are . They pounce with great glee on any negative story about a Democrat or the party and long for that pure mythical third party( It is a two party system people -hello)...why they are here is beyond me.

[SJMULE]

131. I was officially reprimanded

By DU administrators for a calling out a troll who was calling for Franken's head. Funny ( not really) that a troll will get me banned, because I apparently insulted said TROLL

[smirkymonkey]

141. Agree completely!

Franken needs to stay put and ride this out. The trolls will get bored soon enough and find something else to move on to.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. There is a fear of what republicans might say

if we didn't condemn him.

Franken is the most outspoken member of the Senate. It's no wonder this campaign has been mounted against him.

A big story was created around that stupid picture of Franken.

[Wiseman32218]

102. Spot on, they have a target on his back!!!

[ariadne0614]

116. No doubt about it.

Not to mention the way he nailed J. Beauregard Sessions.

[global1]

3. To Tell You The Truth - I Don't Know What Posts To Believe In Anymore.....

the posts you indicate that are negative to a Dem Senator might be DU infiltrators trying to divide us even more.

I could envision somebody paying people to put up these negative posts here to try and sway opinion. Could they be fake posts?

[Kingofalldems]

5. Exactly.

[appleannie1943]

10. I even think they have been photoshopped pictures. I think the whole thing is a set up.

I agree the picture was originally in poor taste but it does not even begin to reach the level of assault.

I also think she was in on the whole thing. Why else would she have on a flak jacket? And if you really look closely, the tips of his fingers are not even touching the flak jacket.

[FakeNoose]

26. Exactly right - probably Bannon is behind this

Why do you think Franken has called for an investigation of himself? He's no dummy.
The whole thing is a setup, and I'll bet that woman was paid a lot.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

137. Eggsactly...

... ( I wanted to be original). I am tempted to block most of those I have seen ignoring the context of the issue. Would I be rude? Would I be tossing a couple of babies out with the bath water? I think to much...

[Irish_Dem]

6. Democrats on are the side of right and justice.They are trying to deal with sexual harassment issues

but hopefully in a fair way.

[Demsrule86]

61. Attacking one of our own for nothing while the GOP continues to support a pedo in Alabama

is stupid. How about we deal with Trump and not fall for the Franken set up.

[nolabear]

7. I think each DU member is trying to figure out how to deal.

As is everyone else. I have my feelings and opinions but I think there's danger in thinking what's going on here or anywhere in this moment is all there is. Personally I think he did screw up and he's now stepping up.

We have to work on it as though we can use what's going on in all quarters now as fuel to make things better. I like what Al Franken's doing. I like what Hillary's doing. They're not hysterical. They're not belligerent. They are warriors who know who they are and that they're imperfect beings.

We all have chickens. We're fools if we think we don't. It's what you do when they come home that tells me what to think of you. 45 and Moore and Weinstein and Cosby and Weiner and ilk have shown me what they are. So has Al Franken. Unless he surprises the hell out of me

[ariadne0614]

105. I appreciate your nuanced perspective. n/t

[JI7]

8. A few are long time trolls

Most of their du posts is attacking democrats and defending republicans.

[fescuerescue]

59. I think we fear Trolls

more than Republicans many times.

In the end, it's the Internet equivalent of talking politics at Thanksgiving.

[B2G]

9. It is possible to support Franken

And the way he is handling this without dragging Tweeden through the mud.

If we all approached it like that, there would be far less consternation in here.

IMO.

[Kirk Lover]

12. What do you consider dragging through the mud...the nude pics...I do agree with you. No need for

that but inevitably every single time if there's something 'shady' in someone's background it's going to be used for fodder. Look at the woman w/ Moore...bringing up her marriages and bankruptcies.

Do you consider me pointing out her affiliation with Fox and Hannity as dragging through the mud..because I consider that an essential point. Also she's a BIRTHER....she is dragging herself through the mud on that one.

[B2G]

13. Yes, that's exactly what I'm referring to. Nt

[MaryMagdaline]

18. Birther thing

Is relevant because that goes to credibility. No rational person would believe in birtherism and there is malice involved in pushing that theory. The Hannity thing? Relevant to the extent that she showed him pictures years ago and shows that she might have wanted to hurt him politically. Does it negate the fact that she is humiliated/ angry? Not totally.

[BannonsLiver]

20. Dragging through the mud: Asking any questions, period.

Tweeden must not be questioned or doubted under any circumstances. Every word out of her mouth is a nugget of righteous truth. That’s the case that poster has been trying to make since it broke.

[B2G]

27. If you're referring to me,

You are flat out wrong.

[ariadne0614]

108. I believe you. n/t

[Demsrule86]

64. She is a righty and Hannity buddy...so any word out of her mouth is suspect.

She was doing a skit...and has now lied through her teeth in my view. I won't attack Democrats on the word of a rightie liar...especially when evidence shows she is lying.

[OnDoutside]

66. I think you have a point there too.

[womanofthehills]

115. So will she also be pissed at Al for this skit - where she is being dry humped

and "Al is watching" - How dare Al watch her be dry humped

Link to tweet

[loyalsister]

14. Exactly!

He is handling it with dignity and listening to someone who wants to be heard the way we would hope any GOP member would. If they have low standards for the behavior of their politicians, that's their own problem. I am seeing that Al Franken is holding himself to a higher standard and I appreciate it.

[ariadne0614]

109. My sentiments exactly. n/t

[Kirk Lover]

11. I think there is just a difference of opinions....which happens often in life even among the

like minded. I just think we should try to respect each others opinions even if we disagree. We do have to remember that the bottom line is WE ARE ALL for the same thing and on the same 'side' at the end of the day. With that being said...unless some bombs drop on Al about more women - he ain't going nowhere. This is perfect actually to bring up trashbags victims...time to play some of our own whataboutism. WHAT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.

[Demsrule86]

67. If you attack Franken and muddy the waters for pedo Moore, than you are not hear for the same reason

I am here...support Democrats...not you just in general.

[TheFrenchRazor]

97. "muddy the waters?"... is that "you're either with us or against us?" what has the democratic party

come to, indeed.

[Demsrule86]

126. Yes...you are either with us or against us. Attacking Democrats helps the GOP and if you are here

to do this, and I am not saying you are...then you and I are here for different reasons. I support Democrats...in case you haven't noticed, the GOP is doing some awful shit at the moment, and I have no patience for those who whine about Democrats...not saying you whine...just a general comment. And this is so obviously a right wing hit job, I am shocked that any person could fall for it. There are those that want to attack Democrats any seize any opportunity to do so. It is hard to understand their motivations when the only party that can stop Trump and the evil Republicans is the Democratic Party.

[SJMULE]

142. Democrats like Al Franken

are cautious and intelligent. He had to know he would be a target. That his sophomoric actions during what appears to be a bawdy USO trip abroad where Tweeden grabbed as much ass and made out with strangers, could come back to haunt him. He is a media saavy gentleman adult comedian. He knew he did nothing wrong. Anyone who doesn't stand by AL should get off the bus and walk, we do not want you. Signed "Pragmatic Democrats"

[Demsrule86]

151. It was USO tour before his election...they were having a few drinks and having some fun.

This is not sexual harassment and it sure as hell isn't sexual assault...this woman just signed a book deal and is cozy with Hannity...add to that ...Stone announced it before it happened...not believable. In my ill-spent youth, I remember a strip poker game that would be very embarrassing if there were pictures. We have a president who assaulted women and yet the right elected him ...his wife has nude pictures posted...please spare me the faux outrage over a few folks having fun on a USO tour. And Ms. Tweedon will not enjoy testifying to congress either...lying is against the law and that is all she has.

[orangecrush]

15. Stone and Bannon's plan

It worked temporarily, but will not divide us.

[LAS14]

16. Sometimes I think we're living in Victorian England. nt

[SaschaHM]

17. DU condemns Democratic Senators for shit all the time.

Just to name a few:
Kristen Gillibrand.
Bernie Sanders (I)
Kamala Harris.
Corey Booker.
Joe Manchin.
Dianne Feinstein.
Joe Manchin.
Elizabeth Warren.

This Franken stuff isn't new. Hell, this post isn't new. It's the DU Cycle.

Something happens -> DU splits -> People get called trolls/russian bots -> What about Trump. -> We move on.

[njhoneybadger]

19. I agree doc, it's nucking futs nt

[Demsrule86]

138. What's nuts is when those supposedly on our side pile on.

[getagrip_already]

21. russian trolls... they both support and oppose...

Some of the most obnoxious anti- and pro- voices are just trolls trying to set us against each other. They are on a lot of the political sites and even some hobby sites with political forums.

Only way to explain it.

[oberliner]

22. The condemnation is for forcibly kissing a woman (with tongue) against her will

Which I would think every DU-er would not hesitate to condemn from anyone.

[USALiberal]

29. And taking a photo like that without her permission. Camera person just as guilty IMO. nt

[USALiberal]

56. I notice you like to insult posters. Call them names, sort of like a bully would. n/t

[USALiberal]

68. I understand math is hard for you......

I have averaged more posts per month in the year I have been here than you have in your 7 years here.

Nice try.

I get it, everyone is a troll who disagrees with you.

[paleotn]

71. Wrong....

and that still doesn't let you off the hook. Other than my original response to your mountain building from mole hills, when did I call someone names or bully? Give....me....one.....example. Go ahead.... Just one....

Waiting......

[USALiberal]

72. Wrong on the math? Please list your calculation please. n/t

[paleotn]

73. This is what's wrong....

I get it, everyone is a troll who disagrees with you. No, everyone who causes a stink when there's no reason to cause a stink is a troll....

Still waiting for the example of where I've called others names or bullied. Other than you, Ivan. Or is it Anatoly? Boris maybe?

[USALiberal]

75. So everyone here who thinks Franken was wrong and screwed up is a troll? n/t

[Demsrule86]

79. Pretty much...if you are going to condemn such an obvious righty set up...what else could it be?

Hannity knew, and Stone knew in advance....the other pictures show laughing and goofing around...she is a righty... too. Witnesses says she is not telling the truth. You have to WANT to believe it and that goes to motivation

[USALiberal]

81. Not even sure I believe the kiss she described ever happened. But the photo was tacky.....

and childish and wrong.

[Demsrule86]

128. It was joke which she was in on...I bet she regrets it now. Her story won't hold up if she has to

testify. There was a kiss during the show...and maybe in rehearsal. I think she is a liar.

[paleotn]

80. No...I think Franken screwed up

...but he's admitted it, apologized and called for an investigation of himself. We all screw up...some screw ups being worse than others, but how one handles those screw ups is a measure of character and Franken has boat loads of that.

Continuing to stir the shit in order to cause discord is one of the primary signs of a troll and it appears to me, your primary purpose on this thread is shit stirring. Now you do the math.

[stonecutter357]

136. yes everyone here who thinks Franken was wrong and screwed up is a rwnj are a Russian troll.

[paleotn]

74. And while your searching....

for some instance where I've called names or bullied...other than you, here's something from someone I admire for you to chew on. She sums up this whole issue quite well I think....so maybe you should stop stirring the shit.

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/hillary-clinton-defends-al-franken-after-assault-accusation/

[USALiberal]

76. Your adorable! n/t

[paleotn]

83. No, I'm not!

I'm an incorrigible curmudgeon, but some give me a pass on that. If my troll detector needs calibrating, you have my apologies.

[Demsrule86]

84. I think your troll detector is just fine.

[brush]

42. That's her story. He says he remembers it differently. Why not wait for the investigation before...

just accepting what either says is gospel?

I mean she did submit a photo as evidence of his sexual abuse that show him hamming it up for the camera in poor taste but does not show his hands touching her.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. I think it's entirely fair to wait for the ethics investigation.

[paleotn]

53. Yea....right....uh huh. Whatever you say.

[The Wizard]

77. If you assume she's truthful?

In the kiss picture her arms are around him. It doesn't look like she's struggling to get away.

[Demsrule86]

89. Why do you keep saying that...it was a skit. I suggest you look into it a bit more...

This is a put up job by the GOP.

[Alice11111]

103. Not against her will. She stated she reluctantly agreed,

since it was in the skit. It's the same skit he had done many times before.

[cwydro]

23. Yup.

I keep trashing the Franken threads, but three more spring up in their place... sigh.

[USALiberal]

28. Show ONE post where someone defended Trumps behavior. Dramatic much???

[Thor_MN]

39. Show ONE post where someone claimed that anyone here defended Trump's behavior.

Reading comprehension much???

[moriah]

30. What would DU be coming to if we completely ignored accusations against our people...

... the way the Republicans ignore allegations about theirs?

I'd much rather see liberals not being hypocrites and giving her a fair hearing, and then making any condemnation they feel appropriate.

And for me, essentially after every dramatic thing said and Franken's response, my condemnation is this:

"Al Franken, you were an immature juvenile asshat to take that photo. But thanks for owning up to it and submitting to an investigation. By doing so you're keeping this accusation from in any way preventing Beverly Young Nelson's testiimony request against Roy Moore, who is an asshat accused of forcing immature juveniles to submit to him."

[TheFrenchRazor]

98. this. nt

[ariadne0614]

114. Makes sense to me. n/t

[mcar]

32. What are we allowed to criticize our legislators for?

Is there a list posted here somewhere? I see posts here criticizing Pelosi, Harris, Booker and many other Dems on a daily basis. I don't see "what have we come to" posts in those cases.

So please, spell it out. I criticize Al Franken for that dumbass photo (comedy stunt notwithstanding) because a) it's crude, boorish and inappropriate - oh and not funny and b) he was considering a Senate run at the time and is a smarter guy than that. The kiss part I'm more skeptical about.

I applaud him for his response. It is the right way to handle the situation. Plus, it draws a very clear line between how we respond to issues of inappropriate behavior and how they respond to a pedophile in their camp, and their sexual abuser president.

Does that make me a long- time troll? I've been here since 2002.

[Demsrule86]

86. Why would you want to bring down your own? The list should be those with a 'D'

next to their name...you happy living under Trump watching him kill babies and starve folks? ChIP is gone and now they come for the ACA and medicaid . ..soon it will be medicare and social security. Why would you waste your time criticizing your own especially for put up jobs like Franken's situation...you do the work of the GOP when you do this...not you in particular. but you in general...and if you feel such dislike for your elected why are you a Democrat?

[mcar]

87. What?

Please link to where you asked the many posters who constantly criticize Nancy Pelosi and other Dems such a question. I won't hold my breath.

This is the most hyperbolic nonsense I've read here and that's saying something. I criticize Franken but applaud his response so that means I'm happy Trump is killing babies and starving people? Really?

[ariadne0614]

113. You make sense to me. n/t

[mcar]

122. Thank you

I'm a bit at the implication I'm a Russian troll because I criticized Franken. But people completely trash Pelosi and other Dems here all The time, and encourage a primary challenge of them.

[guillaumeb]

33. Democrats are expected to behave as adults.

The GOP has no standards other than fealty to money.

[liberalnarb]

44. +1

[Demsrule86]

91. sorry so destroying our own and helping elect the GOP is a good thing? The Franken thing

is outrageous...obviously a GOP ploy...you have to want to pile on Democrats to fall for it.

[guillaumeb]

94. The Al Franken story should not be allowed to dominate the news.

The Mueller investigation is the real story.

When GOP Congressman David Vitter was exposed as a frequent customer of the DC madam, he did not resign, and he was re-elected.

Trump, Vitter, and Gingrich are all the examples we need to show the outrageous double standard.

[Demsrule86]

129. That is true...it is a distraction invented by Hannity ET AL.

[summer_in_TX]

132. That doesn't sound like "destroying our own"

in the slightest to me. Admittedly I did read some posts yesterday that were not constructive, IMO. Hard to sort out the trolls from those whose anger levels have pushed them past the point of being able to carry on a nuanced, reasonable discussion.

This litmus test stuff is repugnant, demeaning, and comes across a lot more like a Republican attitude than that of a Dem.

Lines in the sand. "You're with us or against us." Brother!

Too often I read the threads and just despair that we are going to be able to come together and win. But others give me hope.

[Demsrule86]

139. I repeat one is either a Democrat and support Democrats or

not. This an obvious GOP ploy(Hannity)...and those who breathlessly pile on, do the heavy lifting for the GOP. A person has to want to believe ill of Democrats to believe this stuff...clearly a pack of lies orchestrated by Stone, Hannity and who knows?

[summer_in_TX]

147. Not all nuanced speech is a Hannity ploy.

That does us an injustice.

What all of us know now is not what some initially thought they knew. Probably some were gullible and spoke without the benefit of the input of the group. But we bring them along, educating not attacking them.

We are weakened not strengthened when we don't give our mostly likeminded fellow DUers the benefit of the doubt. The harsh and adamant tones used all too often in threads is not conducive to strong bonds or working together for common cause. Nor does it allows the newer people to grow into a broader view. It is likely it just drives them away.

[Demsrule86]

150. I would agree with you in part...but there are some who are far to quick to jump

on any perceived wrongdoing by a Democrat and yet, indifferent to the trespasses of Republicans. I have to wonder if they are Democrats or perhaps third party folks...or even Republicans trolling.

[Demsrule86]

152. It is a line in the sand...you either support Democrats or you don't...and don't

talk to me about 'constructive' criticism. there is no such thing...and constant criticism on the right and within our own party particularly (and some so called progressive groups like the Greens and our revolution) have driven voters away from the Democratic party...the only party that can stop Trump and the Republicans. We are fighting to keep progressive policy attained years before by smarter folks who understood party loyalty ...and not advancing our progressive agenda.

[wolfie001]

34. I'm very disappointed

I accept his heartfelt apology and I'm 100% supportive of Al and his legislative agenda.

[liberalnarb]

45. I think everyone here is at least 99.9% supportive of Als politics

but it hurts our credibility when we are so forgiving when the accused is a (D).

[Demsrule86]

92. It hurts our credibility when we allow the GOP to make shit up and then pile on eating our own.

[wolfie001]

104. Yes! Tweeden accepts his apology and so do I!

[Demsrule86]

120. Let it go right! And if she has to testify...it won't be pretty...because I think she is lying and

they will catch her.

[wolfie001]

145. This whole ordeal is an onion!

The more you peel the layers, the more you find out she was slapping asses and making passes! She voted for GWB twice so Al should've has his guard up. Completely forgivable!

[ariadne0614]

117. Me too! n/t

[aikoaiko]

37. There is room for addressing each of these issues.

We can condemn one of ours even with greater perils from the GOP.

[zentrum]

40. Well Said.

The Repugs are loving the piling on.

[liberalnarb]

43. There was a little more to it than that.

Yes Roy Moore and Drumphenfukkker have done much worse than anything Senator Franken has been accused of doing. But, the upset is not surrounding a comedy routine, but the accusation that Franken french-kissed a woman without her consent, which, if it did happen, is pretty bad. I myself am pretty suspicious these accusations are a hoax considering all that has come out (roger stone knew about it before hand, the accuser is a trump supporter, infowars etc) but the photo is not the main concern.

[Demsrule86]

93. But it didn't happen...so your desire to accept a GOP put up job is puzzling.

[liberalnarb]

99. How do you know that?

[Demsrule86]

123. I have looked at pictures and read the accounst...She is a fox girl..she is on fox all the time...

and both Hannity and other righties knew about this in advance...you want to be lead around by the nose by the right wing and attack our own at their behest...do it...I won't join in.

[Heather MC]

47. LeeAnn tweeden is lying she is a Fox News contributor

Sean Hannity put her up to this

[YOHABLO]

50. Yes I'd like to hear more about this connection. Can anyone elaborate on this?

[Heather MC]

85. She is a Fox News Contributor

go to youtube she spent a lot of time on the Sean Hannity Show over the years.

Just look at the timing Sean Hannity turned on Roy Moore and said he had 24 hours to come clean or whatever. Steve Bannon call Sean Hannity and tells him to lay off Roy Moore. A day later this woman comes out claiming Al Franken was inappropriate with her.

She mentions that she has a radio show but what she doesn't mention is that she's a regular Fox News contributor on Sean Hannity coincidence I think not. Furthermore the photographer of the photo says that she was fake sleeping actually she was playing dead and Al Franken was supposed to be resuscitating her and she was in on the joke.

Also the military escort that was assigned to escort her said that none of this ever happened. and I firmly believe the reason why Senator Franken called for an investigation is because he knows the truth will come out.

And I don't think Sean Hannity and Roy Moore counted on Al Franken having so much Integrity that he would call for a senate Congressional hearing on himself. This whole thing is about to backfire on all of them

[Demsrule86]

95. And she is often on Hannity's show...hmmm

[TomVilmer]

48. Others have rejected to entertain US soldiers...

Just breaking the subject a bit... In 1969 Danish band The Savage Rose played at the Newport Jazz Festival, which could have been the beginning of a big international career, but since the group would not play for the U.S. troops in Vietnam, the record label would not sign them. The became friends with The Black Panthers, and later the group traveled to the war-torn Lebanon, and played in the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila, and at the partisan bases in the mountains. The main singer is still performing with local commercial success, and are always playing free at demonstrations.

[YOHABLO]

49. We need Al Franken to stay put. He's apologized and now let's move on.

[left-of-center2012]

52. I've suspected trolls on here for months

Too many posts of circular firing squads,
stirring the pot,
and fighting the Democratic 'family feud'.

Trying to rip us apart before the 2018 and 2020 elections.

[Plucketeer]

65. Is it possible for a troll

to get much past a 2-figure post tally? Don't they usually get weeded out well before that?

[left-of-center2012]

107. ...

[Skittles]

134. easy

we call them "fly-under-the-radar" trolls

[Plucketeer]

146. I sea

So... (and the last thing I want to do is start another Bernie's not a Democrat, bru-ha) my preference for an alternative over the "chosen" was really a not-so-sly attempt at subversion? It just seems that the troll definition starts flashing if a lemming bucks the crowd and runs away from the cliff. I mean... these camo-dressed trolls must be pretty slick to evade detection and not get ejected from DU. Doesn't that seem crafty? As I noted before, I can see a subversive maybe making it to 60 - 70 - 80-some posts before the whistle gets tweeted. But I'm to believe that there's some who've gotten to five figures with maybe a few alerted messages for not practicing (D) or die? That's amazing to me. So having a difference of opinion is akin to spreading the rumor that the Kool-Ade is spiked?

BTW, save your keystrokes. I've been around here 10 years now. I already have the retort and belittlement memorized. Maybe I'm so under-the-radar that even I don't recognize me! Maybe I should have devised a user name like Con-troll. Damned independent thinking. Lemmee tell you - thinking for yourself is really a curse. Avoid it if you can. Titles like rebel, troublemaker, instigator, troll - you'll have those tattooed all over yourself.

[Demsrule86]

57. Thank- you so sick of the Dem hatred found here...they hate Dems so much they fall for GOP lies

everytime. This is Democratic Underground...not some right wing hell hole.

[samnsara]

60. well everyone here should text RESIST to 50409 to send a free

fax to their state congress. I sent one to our GOP Rep and told him to JUSTIFY his vote! #JustifyIt!

[Podkayne K]

78. TROLES AND/OR RUSSIANS?

This entire SCAM-DLE feels like a blast from the Lee Atwater/Roger Ailes past. this time manufactured by Stone and Hannity. There are enough holes in this woman's story that even the Cleveland Browns could run through them. My guess is that since Senator Franken didn't want to come off like a member of the G reedy O le' P edofile Party, he correctly called for an inquiry because he knows that once all the facts come out, it will show that nothing much--except the photo, which it appears she obviously agreed to--really happened and what did, was fully agreed to by all participants.

As to those "alleged Democrats" going after Franken: Isn't this the same scenario that was and is still being used against HRC? Friends of P-resident Evil: the Russians, The Mob, and the White Supremacists, who stand to gain a lot going after a prominent, powerful progressive, Jewish Senator.

[GaryCnf]

90. Bogus straw man attack

There are a handful of attacks on Franken but more well-founded attacks on the various misogynistic defenses being unnecessarily raised on his behalf.

Al Franken issued perhaps the most appropriate, not to mention politically brilliant, apology for the only credible (at this point - and I have a feeling at any point) allegation against him -- staging and participating in the photo we've all seen. Certain DUers jumped in with a Carville-esque barrage of misogynistic garbage about her appearing in Playboy etc., a Republican-lite "she's a liar because she's a Republican" crap that the women who had the courage to come forward about that trash rapist Moore have had to endure and/or an Alex Jones level conspiracy theory about fake photos..

Al Franken is a genius. Both those saying "he should resign" and those who feel compelled to make us look like fools by not letting Franken handle it need to read what he said.

[Demsrule86]

96. She is a liar. It didn't happen the way she said...and when you watch the gags...

posted ...here she kisses others (nothing wrong with that )...lots of laughter...I will say it again she is a God damned liar and a right wing plant.

[GaryCnf]

100. And Al Franken's apology

Made that point 1000 times more effectively than you just did.

[Demsrule86]

121. That is quite true, but apparently not good enough for some...he also said he

remembered it differently...a polite way to say she is lying.

[GaryCnf]

155. No doubt

It should be the end of it.

I mentioned somewhere else that with every accusation of sexual harassment (or worse), the accusation should be evaluated to determine whether it is credible in light of the surrounding circumstances, just like any other accusation. That goes whether the accused is someone we justifiably despise or someone we justifiably like. Apart from the tiny matter of "How in the f'ing world does anyone in there right mind come up with an "equivalency" between Moore and Al" (yes, that crap drives me nuts too), the statements of the courageous women who came forward to expose (pun intended) Roy Moore have indicia of reliability too numerous to list while anything claimed by Franken's accuser beyond "that was me in the photo" does not. Franken's apology brilliantly made that point.

The point I've been trying to make during our discussion is that, when looking at matters which detract from the credibility of anything past "that was me in the photo," slut-shaming like "she dry humped the guitarist," or "she posed in Playboy," or something that is already being thrown in our faces like "she's a not in my political party," should not be among them.

[RandomAccess]

112. Well said

Thanks.

[ariadne0614]

119. Thank you. n/t

[mcar]

125. He's handled this just the way I would expect an honorable person to

[GaryCnf]

135. This n/t

[NoMoreRepugs]

101. Resign for what? A staged photo op

she participated in?

[markpkessinger]

118. To the extent the claim that it was staged and that she participated in it . . .

. . . is said to have been confirmed by the photographer, Snopes has debunked that:

https://www.snopes.com/photographer-said-franken-image-was-staged/

[NoMoreRepugs]

149. I'm gonna stick w my original thought....

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029865102

Perhaps staged is the wrong term, maybe grossly embellished?

[SJMULE]

156. Be careful......the quote is fake

It does not mean the photo wasnt staged. I can see the trolls not comprehending Snopes calling the comment fake versus the photo being staged....

[infidel621]

106. I must be missing something

My old account is gone so please bear with this new account. I have been gone a long time and periodically check the forums but felt the need for clarification and thought to go ahead and brave the report hammer for disagreeing with something.

Ok, President and Congress debacles aside, what is the problem with condemning a Democratic Senator or anyone else if 'the shoe fits'? This is not a condemnation, in fact I have tons of respect for the way Al Franken has handled this. He admitted, apologized to the woman, sent a personal letter, and encouraged an investigation into this because her voice deserves to be heard. I liked him before but this is the way everyone should be. You make a mistake or bad joke, you apologize and own up to it rather than ignore, blame, or deny it which the Republicans have obviously been doing.

This is where I may be missing something, and I did not read every comment so I apologize if I missed this already being mentioned. It sounds as though the OP is suggesting that because it's a Dem Senator that we should not hold them to the same standard? This is a Republican move and smacks of the hypocrisy I can't stand from either side. I don't think he should resign, the woman accepted his apology, if it's good enough for her it's good enough for me. I can't be offended for her if she isn't offended and make my feelings and demands more important.

[ariadne0614]

124. I dont think youre missing a thing.

You covered it very well. Thank you.

[RandomAccess]

111. The "comedy routine" is just as funny

and appropriate as rape jokes. IOW: not at all.

It sickens me to see that photo, which he himself has renounced, to his everlasting credit, defended here.

[wasupaloopa]

153. Way out of bounds. Nothing like rape jokes.

[RandomAccess]

157. Not out of bounds at all

The two types are on a continuum:


silly sexist comedy routines----------------------------------------------------rape jokes


They're related. They co-exist. They are BOTH inappropriate.

[uppityperson]

130. Why should Bill Clinton have resigned?

[MFM008]

133. they are attempting something worse

To erode the moral authority of an effective senator that aggitates them.
To keep him quiet.

[thegoose]

140. Agreed. We are playing into the hands

Of the saboteurs who put out this hit job. We should unite and stay strong. The whole thing has already been debunked. She's a right-wing shill.

[Nitram]

143. I think every charge of sexual harassment should be taken seriously. That said, I'd suggest we all

wait before condemning either party before we have more information. The information is now coming out that Franken was part of a raunchy show for the troops that Leeanne was fine with at the time. Same with Roy Moore. When the number of credible witnesses who support the story reach the level we've seen in Moore's case, it's time to take it very seriously and launch a formal investigation. I guess I'm saying people on both sides immediately pile on without really knowing much about the incident being reported.

[McCamy Taylor]

144. I am sure that Russia is VERY concerned about Al

[brooklynite]

148. Can you point to an example of condemning? I havent seem one.

[democratisphere]

154. Franken has done nothing wrong and his innocence will be determined by the

ethics review.