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(47,465 posts)and to put him in the same boat with Trump and Moore and the rest of them is really malicious.
But while the "kiss" as well as the accusers of Trump and Moore can fall into "he said/she said" - one cannot escape the photo. It is good that he immediately apologized and wants the Ethics committee to investigate.
questionseverything
(9,646 posts)it was a gag nothing more
comedy can be raunchy
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029860272
groundloop
(11,518 posts)And on top of that the photo wasn't taken on the day which was originally claimed.
Poor taste - probably. Proof of predatory behavior/groping - absolutely not.
True Blue American
(17,982 posts)Groping others? She said she did not want an investigation,that he apologized,she accepted.
You have to testify under oath before the Congress.
I have seen pictures of her hugging,kissing Al and grabbining a guitar players buttocks.
Al cut it off short.
Congress is starting an ethics investigation. Good,if Moore is elected they will have to do one on him,too.
question everything
(47,465 posts)just as it was impossible to "grope" the flat cutout of Hillary back in 2008
But, as Dee Dee Myers wrote:
Whats bugging me is his intention. He isnt putting his hand on her chest, as most of the articles and conversations about the picture have euphemistically referred to it. Rather, his handcupped just sois clearly intended to signal that hes groping her breast. And why? Surely, not to signal he finds her attractive. Au contraire. Its an act of deliberate humiliation. Of disempowerment. Of denigration.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029853673
these acts are aimed at humiliating. I've heard from men and women that during the 60' - "Med Men" era and, perhaps, beyond - it was quite common for men to walk around with their hands "curled" pretending to turn knobs while approaching women in the office, and everyone knew what they had in mind. No, no actual groping, just humiliating.
questionseverything
(9,646 posts)what is more disempowering than having the voters will overturned by repub insiders as seigleman alleges?
what if moore and the rep gov do the same in dec?
franken had the gall to count the votes in his first senate race, I believe that is what makes him such a target for the repubs
Bucky
(53,987 posts)Sorry, but it's possible to be offended by both
yardwork
(61,588 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)And is a better person today
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Of the GOPee woman haters have NOT.
Neither have these nasty little shitbagbros, mocking Hillary by using a cardboard pic to denigrate through sexualization.
I don't see any useful contribution to the discussion in your post. Well, aside from giving me the opportunity to point out that most democrats--decent people with integrity--evolve. Repukes do not.
Sneederbunk
(14,289 posts)on DU of course. I have been told that a pile of dog poop smells worse if you stir it.
paleotn
(17,911 posts)As I said yesterday, and was castigated for it.....stop the damn stirring.
FreeState
(10,570 posts)Beartracks
(12,806 posts)"Shit, baby, he reacts by clowning around cause embarrassed comedians do that to lessen the tension. They went their ways until sexual harassment became a hot button issue and she decides to bring it up to help her GOP. Suddenly, it is much more important. Franken will survive it!"
(emphasis added)
Because, of course, the important thing is that such an accusation is generally the only thing MANY voters will remember, not the eventual resolution or clearing of someone's name.
=========
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 19, 2017, 06:26 AM - Edit history (1)
I am disappointed in him.
This came out because it needed to come out at this time
Why is this any different than the women against Moore waiting 30-40 years
There is safety in numbers
Juliusseizure
(562 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Al Franken is my Senator
I voted for him and will continue to do so
He represents me to the best of his ability and have told him so
I was disappointed in him
After seeing more facts come out the disappointment is less
Any woman or man that feels they have been sexually abused by anyone needs to come out at this time because it is time
As I have stated before in other posts I feel 100% of women have been abused in one form or another. I do not care if it was 100 years ago or today. It should come out
I NEVER compared Al to Moore
There is safety in numbers. The more women that come out and accuse the safer it is for them. It is good that women feel safe.
I do not know why she came out now, political?? maybe. Don't care
womanofthehills
(8,693 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)I am not going to call a woman a liar about abuse she says she experienced
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)If we as women deny that god forbid, a WOMAN could be a troll for trump, a liar, a traitor to all of us women who are deemed by MRA's and GOPees to be liars as a matter of femininity, we are doing harm, not help.
The facts proving her claim to be a typical GOP-style attemp to sabotage democracy are so clear that I find it self-defeating to attempt to protect her claim on account of her womanhood.
Do you have any idea how The Enemy loves irrationalities like that? A drop of truth in their poisonous mix of fabrication and innuendo helps the cult members stay intoxicated. Not that they listen to truth, anyway, but I personally don't like implications that to be a "real liberal woman", I have to accept a saboteur in my midst.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)ProudMNDemocrat
(16,783 posts)I met Al Franken in May of 2006. I was well aware of his SNL anf film career, as well as his books. It was at a local fundraiser for OLMSTED DFL. He was the keynote speaker at our dinner. But before hand, he was present to meet and talk with us in a casual setting, Franni was with him, as he signed books and people took photos of him.
The book I had Al sign was one I had received for Christmas 2005 titled.."Live From New York, An Uncensored Look at SNL." In there is a photo of the entire cast of SNL that starred Chevy Chase, Lorraine Newman, Dan Ackroyd, Bill Murray, etc. The shot of Al with this massive curly afro, black horn rimmed glasses, wearing a sweater and plaid polyester pants. Al looked at that photo for what seemed like an eternity, going back 30 years. He was pointing to the various people he knew and loved, lost, continued to remain in contact with.
Months later, I saw Al and Franni again at another fundraiser in Minneapolis, they asked my husband and I to join them at their table. Al remembered me from the book and photo he signed for me that May. Franni and I became friends then, and remain to this day despite being so busy in D.C and with the Grandchildren.
When Al announced he was running against Norm Coleman for the Paul Wellstone seat in Feb. Of 2007, we jumped on board and worked hard for Al. Doorknocking with him, phone banking, etc. We saw him and Franni a lot all over the state. She has bought a number of my hats and specialty Democratic Party shirts I have made . Her apple pies were to die for that would garner upwards to $250.
The election of 2008 was a cliffhanger here in Minnesota. 318 votes seperated Al Franken and Norm Coleman. My husband was part of a state wide DFL crew that recounted ballots to make sure everything was on the up and up. It was not until July of 2009 when his election win was finally certified. We attended the victory party at the Crowne Plaza in St. Paul. A grateful and humble Senator Al Franken was finally seated.
Al has remained humble , grateful, and hard working since then. He will survive this obstacle a little bit bruised in reputation, but stronger.
oasis
(49,370 posts)I met him at a book signing many years ago at Cal Tech in Pasadena. He was gracious, witty and open. Franken stayed on longer than the posted time so he could accommodate more questions from the audience.
I enjoyed your story about your relationship with the senator. So far, he's lived up to far beyond my expectations.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I liked him as a comedian and I love him as a Senator. I hope he and his family don't let this tear them apart and I hope they just let this pass over and go on as usual. He is one of the most powerful voices we have in the Senate and we can't afford to lose him.
Do you know how his wife and family are holding up during this ridiculous, manufactured scandal?
ProudMNDemocrat
(16,783 posts)But I can assume theynare doing well. Both Al and Franni are devoted believers that the truth will prevail, and that they will survive this.
questionseverything
(9,646 posts)we need millions more like you!
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029860272
True Blue American
(17,982 posts)It was self depreciating,funny as heck. Huge.
Then I read Jeff Flake, Conscience Of A Conservative. He can not deal with the Republican Party Of today.
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)MFM008
(19,804 posts)Because shes exaggerating the whole thing for politics.
Dont you smell a Bannon/ Stone hit job when you see it??
The military escort said it was his JOB to note such impropriety,
he said it just didnt happen that way.
Franken however apologized to her 3 times because if it bothered her
it was enough.
he also apologized to the USO whom I'm assuming he did NOT molest
because it was the right thing to do.
unlike many republicans who wouldnt know the right thing if it was a house and FELL
on them.
calimary
(81,198 posts)The nature and content of his response is so telling. He DID INDEED make the point that - if it bothered her, that was enough. Didn't matter what he thought. It was HER opinion that counted. That mentality should tell the whole story. You take THE OTHER PERSON'S VIEWPOINT into consideration. It's being considerate. You try to view something through THEIR lens. Walk around in THEIR shoes.
Isn't that a fundamental tenet of the most basic, entry-level, garden-variety morality? "Do unto others..." and all that? Isn't that THE guideline? The "Golden Rule," the foundational truth spelled out in Matthew 25: 35-45 - "whatever you do to the least of these, you do to Me" and all that? Taking the other person into account.
So if somebody makes that kind of observation in, I take that seriously, and I regard it as a "tell." If that's how he governs his morality, and if that's what motivates his contrition, then I totally accept. Particularly when others are coming forward now to attest to Franken's sincerity, character, and conscience. His track record over years speaks loudly for him, and hardly in a bad way. Context dontchaknow.
Everybody makes mistakes. None of us is perfect. There's a rather freewheeling atmosphere to a USO tour, particularly when it's at an end. Just imagine. You've been shlepping around in this really crazy traveling minstrel show to some really crazy places some of whose names you've never heard before, thrown together in the small troupe of people you never knew before, all of you far from home, amid ridiculous scheduling, jet lag, time zones, insane work hours, catch-as-catch-can meals (if you're lucky to get there before they run out), heavy baggage to lug around and keep track of, and in many cases no sleep, while you haven't been eating your vegetables and your skin starts breaking out and you've had no time for a bath - a quick few minutes with a bar of soap and MAYBE a washcloth might be the best you can do. Toward the end, especially, you get a little slap-happy. Emotions are all askew, the littlest things are ridiculously funny or ridiculously horrid, depending on the moment and the company, and everybody's crazy. And the camaraderie, wild behavior, and recklessness that can develop, very quickly, in that intense little crucible, can really be powerful, and easily drive one to do goofy things.
I remember hearing from audio and video crew people who went on the road covering the presidential campaign in 1980. They were gone for weeks. running from gig to press bus to tarmac to find-a-seat in the transport plane, almost literally thrown together. Toward the end, nobody knows what time it is, where they just were, where they were a week ago, or anything. One of the guys told me that the "Zoo Plane" (that's what they called the jet with all the newspeople on it - that accompanied the Reagan campaign plane from stop to stop) was NUTS. Loopy as hell. On their last takeoff from their last campaign stop before heading home to Southern California, NOBODY was seated or strapped in. They ALL were up, on their feet, yelling their brains out, whooping and screaming with laughter. Buncha wild 'n' crazy people. Katy Tur's book about life on the campaign trail is a MOST illuminating read.
I myself have been out in the field away from home for days, covering extended stories. It's like riding INSIDE a kaleidoscope. There's always at least one wise-ass in the group, and when there's more than one, they compete - to the death! There's always at least one dirty jokester. There are pranks. You get punchy and goofy. And you fall into anything that might break the hurry-up-and-wait boredom and the tension and the loneliness and the mood swings and the sense of being totally disconnected from everything, in your own little microcosm with the other weary travelers schlepping along on the same journey with you.
I also have been on tour, when my kid got a gig with a studio-backed youth band, and we were sent off to performances at a slew of schools throughout the Northeast and Upper Midwest. Even just two weeks of that left you slap-happy. "Where are we?" "Uh - when are we supposed to be there?" "What/where/when are we playing?" "What school is this?" "Uh - who-am-I-where-is-my-car?" And there were fights, tears, hissy fits, bouts of homesickness, hundreds of miles of crabby and moody, etc. At one point, we headed out at the crack of dawn for bookings in the next state, and forgot the studio teacher who was also on the tour because the kids were still school-age! She overslept, and got left behind, and had to find her own way to the next stop! And THIS tour was absolutely across-the-board G-rated. One parent per band-kid was present. So everything remained rather militantly on the up-n-up.
Later, when my son started touring with his own band, man, there were pranks! Didn't even require female involvement! Headliner to new opening band, in Bakersfield CA on the last night of the tour, for example. MY boys were invited into the headliners' tour bus to hang out before the show started, and they were over-the-moon about that, since this kind of honor, from these headliners, was rare. Meanwhile, unbeknownst, the roadies for the headliners pranked the stage. Baby powder on the drum heads. Vicks Vap-o-rub on the microphones and Vaseline on the mic stands. Filled water bottles and soda cans set up, ready to be sprayed all over everywhere. A box of Saran Wrap ready to attack the bass player and mummy-wrap him from the waist up INCLUDING his bass (which they did WHILE my boys were onstage!). My boys were even higher over-the-moon - THRILLED, even! - at having been pranked like that. They felt like they were initiated into some sort of exclusive fraternity! And whenever they were out on the road somewhere and had a Halloween show scheduled - miles and miles of 70mph craziness. There was one headliner band they toured with, whose members specialized in gross pranks. The more disgusting the better. Fortunately, they preyed upon each other and it didn't extend outside the confines of their own tour bus. None of the other bands on the bill were targeted. And no women were ever around for that kind of thing. That headliner band turned out to be rather kind and generous to my boys, ironically enough. But man, the stories...
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)MFM008
(19,804 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)LakeArenal
(28,814 posts)Not sure who you think is the aggressive disappointment, but it looks like her.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)wryter2000
(46,032 posts)No other women have come forward. If he's truly an abuser and a predator, there would be other women.
I'm not excusing what he did. It was gross and wrong. But it doesn't amount to the same thing as preying on teenagers and even trying to rape one.
And the timing of the accusations makes no difference in either case.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Al has evolved since that 60's era. Moore, Dump, Shortey, and the rest of the GOPee woman haters have NOT.
There is no comparison between real predators and Al behaving in line with comedy of that era--and his behavior was mild. And scripted. He's been a strong defender of women's humanity since then. He walks that talk, too.
I hate it when women help make it harder to educate regarding issues of sexism by acting twattish, as tweeden did, or going overboard with outrage at the VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE OUR ALLIES.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)still_one
(92,120 posts)surprise though, they been play this false equivalency game for a long time
OnDoutside
(19,952 posts)in sticking the boot in, unable to/unwilling to differentiate between say Franken and Moore.
TheBlackAdder
(28,182 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)But not the only.
msongs
(67,394 posts)Old Vet
(2,001 posts)it should put this bullshit aside. Seems to me they were all goofing around
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Glad to see it.
burrowowl
(17,638 posts)Jarqui
(10,123 posts)I've looked at a variety of articles, video, etc.
It's night and day between what we're talking about with Franken vs with Trump or Moore
I'm still reviewing but at this point, I'm unconvinced of Ms Tweeden's claims
heaven05
(18,124 posts)franken IS NOT a sexual predator. Roy moore, donald trump, now there are two rapists and sexual predators.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Comedians (successful ones) push the edge. That's what they do. That's how they think. They jump into a joke or gag, going for the laugh. They regard few things as sacrosanct so that it can't result in a laugh. That's what they do. That's how they think. That's why they are good at making people laugh.
Imagine if a comedian who is known for quick, off-the-cuff comebacks, would stop & think...is this too off-color? Would this be too offensive? Could this be perceived incorrectly by some? They wouldn't be on the stage as a successful comedian.
All comedians are going to go too far at some point. They misjudge. They misspeak. Their words or actions are mis-perceived. They do think something is funny that others will find offensive. So I judge them differently.
Franken pretending to grope Tweeden while she's asleep - not in good taste, esp knowing she's a conservative. But he did not grope her, and it's not harassment or molestation or assault or anything close to that. It was a gag in bad taste. I wouldn't have been offended, if I were in that company for that purpose (a group of entertainers, incl comedians, on a flight to a USO tour). If I were on a bus of lawyers, I would be offended.
(Franken does not admit to french kissing her without consent, as far as I know.) For the kiss, it was rehearsal, and she agreed to it. At first she didn't, she says, but then she did, since it was in the skit.
lark
(23,091 posts)They act like the picture shows actual groping and her asleep, when it doesn't and was staged on purpose at her request. They ignore all the people who have come forward who were in the room and it didn't happen the way she said and were pushing for him to resign on several shows I've seen over the past few days.
Irish_Dem
(46,893 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)I don't think it is necessary to throw everyone under the bus who has done inappropriate things. Because that is probably all of us at one time or another.
paleotn
(17,911 posts)and it's also the degree of inappropriateness that's important. Flipping someone off in traffic isn't terrible mature, but I'd not lump it into the same category as pulling out a gun and shooting at them or running them off the freaking road.
Snake Plissken
(4,103 posts)Including Leeann Tweeden
Gothmog
(145,102 posts)Podkayne K
(145 posts)than in the Cleveland Browns defense.
I think once the investigation is finished, that will be more than evident.
(PS: They--and we--need to stop saying Senator Franken admitted to Ms. Tweeden's tall tale. HE DID NOT. And unless someone can show where he did, Kelley Ann and all her Russian Troll fiends can crawl back into the slime pit from which they slithered.)