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MineralMan

(146,286 posts)
Sun Nov 19, 2017, 02:38 PM Nov 2017

Taking the Measure of a Man - A Military Service Story

I've been thinking about Roy Moore, like many of us have recently. It brought to mind something that affected me over 50 years ago as a young man. Something that was a test that some passed and some failed.

When I was just a young guy of 21-22 years, back in the latter half of the 1960s, I found myself in Turkey for 15 months, courtesy of the USAF. The base where I was stationed only had about 600 Air Force people on it. Its mission was highly classified then, and still is. It was considered a "remote" base, so no women were stationed there and married Airmen and Non-Coms were strongly urged not to bring their wives there, since there were no quarters for families.

Fifteen months is a relatively long time in a young man's life. For some of the guys I knew, it was a particularly difficult time. But, here's the thing about Turkey in those days. Every large city, like the one adjacent to the base I was on, had a women's prison. Inmates in those prisons could "work off" part of their sentence through prostitution in a government-run "compound." I learned of the local "compound" very soon after arriving at the base.

Over the next 15 months, I knew people who were stationed there who visited that "compound" with some regularity. My guess was that it was between 10-15% of the men stationed there who did that. I did not. In fact, I never even considered it. To me, the idea of "working off" part of a prison sentence by submitting oneself to having sex with random men was abhorrent. But, some percentage of guys stationed there apparently had no problem with the concept. They used to visit that "compound," usually in small groups, on a fairly regular basis.

As I said, I knew some people who went there. A few bragged about it. Most didn't, but just made their weekly visits. The rest of us found other outlets that did not involve exploiting the Turkish women who were in that place. By the time I finished my assignment at that place, I learned that most of the men who did visit the compound were flawed in other ways, as well. It was merely an observation.

Life tests us all. How we choose to act is the measure of our ethical compass. Some people are able do things that others could not bring themselves to do. I've never forgotten that Turkish "compound" and what it revealed about the people I knew during my 15 months in Turkey. We were all tested. Some of us failed that test, in my opinion. I've never forgotten, and never will.

Roy Moore would have been one of those who visited that "compound," I am certain. I believe he would have failed that test and come up short of my expectations. Yes, I think so.

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Taking the Measure of a Man - A Military Service Story (Original Post) MineralMan Nov 2017 OP
Is 'women prisoners forced to work as prostitutes' common?? bobbieinok Nov 2017 #1
In Turkey at that time it was an official government MineralMan Nov 2017 #2
Here is a link to another account of these Turkish "compounds" MineralMan Nov 2017 #3
I had forgot that fact. Basic LA Nov 2017 #4
Life does indeed test us Redleg Nov 2017 #5
Oh, I doubt what you say about Roy Moore, he has strong Christian beliefs progree Nov 2017 #6
"To me, the idea of "working off" part of a prison sentence by submitting... 3catwoman3 Nov 2017 #7
Yes. I agree 100% MineralMan Nov 2017 #8

bobbieinok

(12,858 posts)
1. Is 'women prisoners forced to work as prostitutes' common??
Sun Nov 19, 2017, 03:03 PM
Nov 2017

Does it just happen frequently but known only to 'in group?'

It's a topic in tv and books about prisons and corruption.

And of course it's a porn topic.

MineralMan

(146,286 posts)
2. In Turkey at that time it was an official government
Sun Nov 19, 2017, 03:07 PM
Nov 2017

operation. It was not illegal. There were no USAF regulations against US servicemen using that place either. It was no secret, but was run openly by the Turks and used openly by service members.

I do not know if such government-run "compounds" still exist in Turkey. They did then, though.

Only a personal ethic prevented people from using the facility. Those who never used it did not because it violated either their personal ethics or for some other reason, such a fear of disease.

Again, my estimate is that between 10 and 15% of guys at that 600-person base did go there.

 

Basic LA

(2,047 posts)
4. I had forgot that fact.
Sun Nov 19, 2017, 03:11 PM
Nov 2017

But I saw it myself (not as a participant) in the mid 60's as a Sixth Fleet sailor in Istanbul. There was a small crowd of local Turkish troops in the women's prison yard right there in the city, waiting to get inside. Very disturbing.

Redleg

(5,804 posts)
5. Life does indeed test us
Sun Nov 19, 2017, 03:19 PM
Nov 2017

Last edited Sun Nov 19, 2017, 03:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I have felt that we cannot truly understand our own values until we have been tested and forced to choose among those things we claim to value. Choosing one value over another doesn't necessarily negate the not-chosen value, but it does demonstrate that at that time, that value is not high in the hierarchy of values.

Your military example reminded me of my own experiences as a field artillery officer. We spent a great deal of time in field exercises and to this day I don't know how I was able to deal with the strain caused by not being able to relieve the tension, so to speak. I know that some soldiers would claim to be able to surreptitiously jerk off while in the field but have no first-hand (no pun intended) knowledge of that.

The army was a very testosterone heavy institution and perhaps 1 in 10 fellow officers had a hard time controlling their sexual urges. These were the guys who would play grab ass with the local women at nightclubs and bars, engaging in the pussy-grabbing and other crap without concern for the consequences. It reminds me of the Tail Hook scandal.

Addendum: Thinking back on the times I witnessed fellow officers groping women made me think about how I rarely confronted them about it. I guess I didn't always have the moral courage to intervene even though I often felt uncomfortable about it. Perhaps I am just now more sensitive to these issues than I was as a young man.

progree

(10,901 posts)
6. Oh, I doubt what you say about Roy Moore, he has strong Christian beliefs
Sun Nov 19, 2017, 03:20 PM
Nov 2017

and there's that Bible verse, with "suffer little children" in it, and that's all Moore needs to know. I think he would have gone after children (that compound sounds maybe too "adult" ), and I'm sure, like pretty much everywhere else in the world, there are children for sale.

Though he probably would be thinking he was giving the children a good time, and on top of that, he would no doubt tell them about Jesus's redeeming salvation as he was zipping up his pants. Those fuckers can use the Bible and their "Christianity" to justify anything and everything.

3catwoman3

(23,973 posts)
7. "To me, the idea of "working off" part of a prison sentence by submitting...
Sun Nov 19, 2017, 06:18 PM
Nov 2017

...oneself to having sex with random men was abhorrent." To say the least!

Abhorrent and all of its many synonyms - despicable/ foul/ heinous/ loathsome/ odious/ repugnant just to pick a few. And those apply to both the Turkish government officials who arranged this, and the US personnel who availed themselves of it.

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