Is there a man left who can't be accused of sexual impropriety?

[Stinky The Clown]

[brooklynite]

1. Me?

I've been involved with only one woman; we're approaching 39 years. Seems to be working out.

[Ken Burch]

77. Glad to hear it.

n/t.

[ProfessorGAC]

86. Identical Timing

Met my wife 39 years ago last June!
Worked out for us, too!

[Skittles]

2. yes, THE MAJORITY

[DavidDvorkin]

4. Yes!

[emulatorloo]

6. +1

[steve2470]

10. agreed! nt

[SharonClark]

11. Agree. The men in my life wouldn't and haven't.

[alittlelark]

13. +1000

[Blue_Adept]

66. You say that until someone accuses you of something

And it may be something that you never thought of as being harmful or would offend or make someone feel uncomfortable.

I'd say the majority of men have done such things, knowingly and unknowingly, several times over their lives at minimum.

[Skittles]

73. you're confusing male entitlement with criminal behavior

[tymorial]

84. I disagree

Miscommunication or a misunderstanding can and has led to accusations of harassment. I witnessed such a thing personally.

[Skittles]

91. and that may happen once or twice

but would they be accused by multiple people?

[tymorial]

92. A single accusation is enough to destroy a person's career

or college education. Examples are not hard to come by.

[Skittles]

93. I disagree

that's the classic s/he said he said, more evidence is needed.....if someone's career is ruined over a SINGLE accusation that usually means they are targeted, often for other reasons

[DashOneBravo]

78. Thank you

[True Dough]

3. Living man?

It's starting to seem doubtful.

[snooper2]

67. Well, we can start with Stephen Hawking

[FarCenter]

5. Only the pathologically inhibited

[whathehell]

15. So you have to be "pathologically inhibited" to not masturbate iin

front of female co-workers or randomly grab their asses?

..You might want to rethink that conclusion..

[FarCenter]

26. "sexual impropriety" is a broad category encompassing many activities less obnoxious than that

[whathehell]

27. So what "less obnoxious", but sexually improper behaviors

are you speaking of?

[FarCenter]

36. Telling a joke that may be interpreted as "off-color" by a particularly sensitive individual, e.g.

Sexual Impropriety

A form of sexual misconduct defined as expressions or gestures that disrespect privacy and are sexually demeaning; the term overlaps with sexual harassment, and is probably a synonym thereof

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sexual+Impropriety

[whathehell]

41. Yes, but those are held to the "reasonable" woman/ man standard

and if someone were bizarre enough to claim -- especially in the case of a single incident-- that this constituted "harassment, and brought it to court or arbitration, it would fall on its face...You'll notice that none of the men recently ousted were accused of merely telling dirty jokes.

No, sorry, it's only the "obnoxious" displays for which men are being held accountable...No need to get all "inhibited".

[FarCenter]

46. "Accused" isn't just a legal matter. It applies to HR complaints and to the internet

In a case handled by one of my peers at work, his male subordinate from an ethnic group with a relaxed attitude towards sex placed a filled out purchase order form for contraceptives on the desk of a female from an ethnic group with a conservative attitude.

The HR complaint resulted in the male employee losing his raise that year.

I would also assume that "accused" these days would also include accusations on facebook, twitter, and in the media.

I tried to keep pretty close track of my subordinates behavior, but in one case a senior admin advised me that one of my male subordinates was spending too much time with a group of female employees. I sat him down and explained that neither he nor I would like the consequences if he continued and the matter was resolved.

This was at a company which into the 60s maintained separate coat closets for men and women to prevent stray hairs, perfume, etc, from being discovered on male employees coats by suspicious wives.

[susanna]

45. Unless there is a pattern of this sort of behavior, there should be no worries.

It will require a 'reasonable person' standard for court cases. Reasonable people/jurors will look at the totality of interactions, not just one "off-color" joke.

In the case of harassment suits that go to court, there must be reason to believe harassment occurred over time, hence the judicial involvement in deciding who gets their day in court.

One crappy joke isn't the standard that targets of harassment must meet. It's far bigger than that.

[FarCenter]

47. See reply 46 above.

[susanna]

98. I saw it, a day later.

I was simply commenting from my own experience in similar circumstances, because, what the hell, #MeToo.

I presume I am still allowed to talk about my own experience, much like you have talked about yours. If not, let me know.

On edit: clarity

[pnwmom]

95. Not true. n/t

[Not Ruth]

7. Bernie?

[Demsrule86]

54. It is coming wait for it...the right wing wants to take down popular progressives...I don't say it

will be true ( of course not)...but this is their MO.

[treestar]

64. Even he has that essay he wrote

[BoneyardDem]

75. are you talking about the rape fantasy essay, or are there others? nt

[treestar]

79. Just the one you mentioned.

Don't know what could be made of it.

[BoneyardDem]

82. I think it certainly could be used against the author

the evidence of the essay is easily googled.

[safeinOhio]

8. Impropriety?

That covers quite a bit. I let a bad word slip once.

[whathehell]

28. Did you lose your job over it?

Last edited Tue Nov 21, 2017, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

[Thor_MN]

9. Can't be accused, No. Can't be truthfully accused, the vast majority.

[Laurian]

12. I've been stunned by some of these revelations, especially Charlie Rose, but

be pretty much admitted it. If it's there, it needs to be faced. It's more pervasive that I thought and that makes me sad.

[whathehell]

16. I'm surprised about him as well, although I DID hear he was a nasty prick

in the workplace, and this was mentioned in the article as well..This abusive abusive behavior was attributed to Harvey Weinstein as well.

[PeaceNikki]

25. Really? John Oliver has been exposing his creepiness for years.

[Demsrule86]

55. I was surprised about Charlie Rose...now this guy needed to be taken down...but the guy

who took a coworker for a drink? I don't think so.

[HopeAgain]

14. It is a rape culture

Pornography, mass media and entertainment all send messages that it is okay. The objectification of women actually fits seamlessly with a society where it's all about wealth, privilege and power.

[Initech]

17. Um.... me?

[Blue_true]

18. Most men keep their hands to themselves and don't assault women.

Some men sneak touches, a small percentage rape.

[lunasun]

19. Yes Plenty

[guillaumeb]

20. Besides Jesus?

Cancel that one. Jesus consorted with tax collectors and prostitutes.

[whathehell]

30. Um, is this something you have a problem with

..keeping your hands off women?

[guillaumeb]

68. I would love to know how you jumped from my remark to your assumption.

Feel free to make the connection if you wish.

[whathehell]

69. Really?.. I thought it self-explanatory, but I'll be happy to explain

A poster stated that " most men keep their hands to themselves" a statement with which I agree. Another poster apparently feels the same, as she responded "Yes, plenty". You responded with the satirical question "Besides Jesus"? which indicates a rather strong disagreement with the idea that "most men keep their hands to themselves"....I found this an unusual view, and so wondered if you might be judging "most men" by yourself.

[guillaumeb]

71. As you indicated, it was satire. eom

[whathehell]

88. Yes, but yours took aim at the idea that "most men keep

their hands to themselves" so your bewildered reaction to my original question remains puzzling.

[guillaumeb]

94. That was not my meaning.

If you took it as such perhaps I was not clear.

[whathehell]

96. Yes,

that's how it came across.

[Hamlette]

21. None of my friends would/did anything like this.

I just can't imagine it.

But what makes the difference? Sitting here thinking about the upbringing of the men I know and it is so diverse.

We had a debate at work last year over the use of the word "pussy". I told my friend at work my husband had never used the word even when drinking with the guys. My friend didn't believe me. I asked my hubby and a group of other people and they admitted that in their youth, they might have called a guy a pussy but never like Trump did.

What makes the difference? I know some men are like that. What made/makes it okay for them to do it?

[whathehell]

31. Money and Power seems to be the common denominator here..

Huge sense of Entitlement.

[Jim Beard]

33. A lot of men lie.

[RandomAccess]

22. You ain't seen nothin' yet

Most women have been sexually harassed in the workplace or other related places and plenty of women have suffered worse.

That adds up to a LOT of men who just can't keep their lewd thoughts unspoken, their hands to themselves, or their equipment safely tucked away in their pants, as in the cases of Louis CK, Harvey Weinstein, etc. A LOT of men who have gotten away with it for a very long time for a variety of reasons, most of which have to do with a power differential + rape culture + misogynist patriarchal society.

It's a terrible burden to carry and if women are being given the chance to unburden themselves, a lot more of this may surface.

AND REMEMBER: the incidence of false reports are roughly the same as for false reports of other crimes: NEGLIGIBLE.

[customerserviceguy]

24. The 60's

and especially the 70's, were a time when in the name of humor, the thoughtful sensibilities of a 15-year-old boy were on full display, and were starting to be considered normal. I admit, I bought into it.

But, I took stock of my life during the Clarence Thomas confirmation process, and realized that I was guilty of acting like a testosterone-crazed adolescent male for way longer than it should have gone on. I resolved to keep my behavior in check after that point.

My lady has a brother who has battled with drug addiction, and she stated that when a person goes on drugs, the emotional age they were at that time is where they will be stuck. I have to say, the same seems to be true for wealth, fame, and power for a lot of guys. That's probably what happened with Bill Cosby, he got to be famous during the sexual revolution part of the 1960's, and stayed right at that level of immaturity for the rest of his life.

[Demsrule86]

58. The GOP is planning and all out assault I think, but I do not agree with you and I have

been sexually harassed...it is better than it was in many industries...they have had strict rules at all my hubs jobs.

[customerserviceguy]

23. Back in 1974-76

when I was a student at the University of Washington in Seattle, some feminist spray-painted "All Men Rape" on a wall near the law school. What seemed like an extreme view at the time has become mainstream in the current frenzy.

This is not to diminish the claims of the accusers, but it is meant to say how I feel about how the world has changed in about four decades.

[milestogo]

32. I have a male friend who is a single parent with an adolescent son -

He said its really hard to explain to his kid why anyone would say something like that.

[customerserviceguy]

34. I'm reminded of the way that the "Roseanne" sitcom handled the subject

DJ, the son of Dan and Roseanne Connor stated, "But Dad, I thought it was good to be a man!" Dan's hasty response was, "Oh, no, son, not since the 1960's."

A laugh track ensued, but I don't know if a lot of famous men are laughing now.

[gollygee]

97. OK well imagine what parents have to tell their daughters

Don't ever set your drink down. Don't ever go to a party alone. Don't walk alone after dark. What red flags to watch out for when you first meet someone. Women have to teach their daughters all sorts of hard lessons to keep them safe.

I think that talk is harder than explaining some vandalism.

[Hekate]

35. It's amazing that the majority of men manage to go about their lives without ever assaulting...

...or otherwise pressing unwanted attention on women and girls. (I hope it is obvious that I mean that ironically, even sarcastically)

I just think there are a certain percentage who let any kind of power-over go straight to their heads, and apparently if that's combined with any kind of sociopathic tendencies they get promoted repeatedly and elected repeatedly. Beats me why. Because there are certainly a lot of decent men available.

I'm a spell-out-the-rules and make people sign them kind of person. I worked in Human Resources back when it was called Personnel. I was in the Labor Relations unit, where people went to file grievances. Later on I spent years on the County Affirmative Action Commission, and then Civil Service Commission. If anyone at either the County or the University broke rules about sexual harassment, race, gender orientation, or any other form of discrimination, the one thing they could not do was plead ignorance. All new hires from the janitor to the CEO were given a copy of the employee manual, and were required to take group classes (later, online) emphasizing the legal nature of their behavior. They had to sign things saying they understood.

It pisses me off no end that the US Congress, which passed anti-discrimination legislation in the first place, specifically exempted themselves. Both they and the hugely profitable creative industries have got to get their shit together and make this a priority, or nothing will change. They have to make rules for themselves, with teeth, and actually enforce them.

As for Al Franken -- jeez. SNL is one of the most popular variety shows of all time, and you would think no one ever actually watched the thing at all, the way people are carrying on. Same with USO tours, which have always been geared toward a young male audience yearning for flirty girls and boob jokes. People are shocked, shocked! that there is raunchy humor involved. Unless there there is a whole line of much more credible accusers (than the first one) against Franken waiting in the wings, I'm going to have his back. The GOP is salivating much too much over the prospect of reducing the numbers of Democrats in the Senate, on any pretext whatsoever.

Sorry for the rant, Stinky. It's not aimed at you.

[KPN]

39. Good post!

[doc03]

37. No not me. But why is it only men are accused of this? Just sayen. nt

[Cary]

56. I'm not worried about what happens to men who have been inappropriate or worse

The chips fall where they may.

I am worried about being wedged.

I find it even more disconcerting that I can't express that point, that I don't want liberals to be wedged, without getting accused of some amorphous crime.

[Hekate]

85. Way to miss the point. I'm going to delete my post in the interest of personal privacy, Cary

Good luck with your issues

[Cary]

87. "Good luck with your issues."

What issues do I have here?

Be specific.

[Cary]

89. I'm waiting Hekate

You said I had "issues."

What are my "issues," please. You made a representation. It wouldn't be a false representation, would it?

Since I know myself, and you don't, I'm pretty sure that you did make a false representation in order to try to slander me. But gee, you wouldn't do that. Right? No. I don't think so.

So, pray tell, what are my "issues?"

[RobinA]

50. Men Don't Complain

about it. I've known women who could get handsie and had trouble taking no for an answer, but no man is going to come forward to complain. Actually, most women don't get all bent out of shape about "unwanted advances" either. And no, I'm not talking about stalking, rape, or quid pro quo in the workplace. I'm talking about the "He touched me in the '90's" stuff that's coming out within the past couple days.

[whathehell]

70. That might have something to do with the two things:

1. Men, on the average, are three inches taller and 60 lbs. heavier than women, so they are less inclined to feel physically threatened.

2. Men are also less inclined to fear for their jobs, being generally in equal, if not superior, positions relative to women.

[Hekate]

72. Bingo

[Skittles]

74. incorrect

men may be reluctant to complain, but it has happened, and would happen a lot more if women had more power

[Cicada]

38. I would bet on Nixon and Carter

A White House usher who served decades and left during Nixon said he knew for a fact that every President committed adultery except Nixon. And I view Carter as guilty of lustful thoughts but not behavior. I could be wrong.

[Lil Missy]

40. Yes, the majority of men.

[riverwalker]

42. Obama. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

80. Yup, that guy

And his character was a big reason why many of us were happy to jump on board in Feb. 2007. Defending Bill Clinton (or any other politician who lacks impulse control) was and continues to be an exhausting exercise.

[bdtrppr6]

44. as a man, i'm very proud to say

i'm one. i've never improperly approached anyone sexually without them doing it first. i was always of the mind to not get involved with sex when i could handle that dept just fine. a little "self control", king of the castle, as it were. made a difference when dealing with temptations. plus i respect most humans as being a separate person with thoughts of their own. duh.

[titaniumsalute]

48. Well that is pretty shitty and stereotypical?

[MoonRiver]

49. My husband.

When alive, also my father. There are many men who respect women, unfortunately the clods get all the media attention.

[moda253]

51. This is how they weaponize this issue

this is exactly how this very real issue is being ised against us instead of society having an awakening. Divided we fall people. Soon there will be another issue. They've already used race and sex. My guess is class is next with the latest welfare developments.

[Not Ruth]

52. Consent is unique to humans

Breeding is generally rape in every other species where the penis goes in the vagina. So I see where it comes from. Which does not make it ok in any species.

[Demsrule86]

53. It has become ridiculous...like the Salem witch trial.

[Irish_Dem]

57. We are going to find out. But I do think there are men who can keep their body parts

unexposed in public and respect women.

We will find out how many in the next year.

[gollygee]

59. Yes, but you're right that this problem is bigger than just a small number of people

It's a much bigger problem than I'm guessing most men have been aware, although I'm also going to guess that most women aren't surprised by how much harassment there is and how many men do it, especially men in positions of power or influence. Especially if we're going to include lower levels of harassment such as Al Franken is accused of.

[Not Ruth]

60. It is not limited to rich, powerful, famous men, they are the low hanging fruit

There is plenty of justice left to be dispensed

[gollygee]

61. I didn't say it was limited to them

I think it's a bigger issue with them - they know that they can get away with more because of the power they wield.

[mercuryblues]

62. The poor men

they now have to think about what they say and do with women they interact with. You know, something women have done their entire lives. So when their ass is grabbed the question won't be "what did you say to lead him on?"

It really isn't difficult to not grab someone in the crotch or tell a stranger how hot their body is. I have managed to not do that my entire life. I wish I could say the same about the men who have violated not only my physical space, but also my emotional one. What 15 year old would like to be asked by a strange adult man if he can "rub his dick on my tits" walking home from school? His buddies laughed. I wanted to cry. That was the day when I knew walking alone was dangerous for me. In broad daylight. I made an effort to not miss the bus anymore and if I did I took the longer route home.

There was an elementary school around the corner from my home that had a great hill to skateboard down. I was supposed to meet a friend there, but she got delayed. An older kid in my neighborhood tried to rape me. Luckily the custodian at the school saw and came out and stopped him. Guess what I never did again? skateboard.

Look at the case with Thrush. He is using his alcohol consumption as an excuse for his behavior, yet women are blamed if they were drinking and were assaulted. The Stanford rapist did the same thing, used his drinking to say he was too drunk to know what he was doing, yet the woman's alcohol consumption was brought up in the context of, if she wasn't drinking she wouldn't have been raped. Women's bodies and how the behave have been used as a weapon against them and now that they say enough, #metoo, *some* men want to play the victim.

I do find it odd that so many women have come forward with the #metoo, yet so many men claim they don't know any males that have sexually harassed women, ever. Take a look at Moore, his harassment was the worst kept secret in town, yet his victims aren't believed. How many of his buddies will say they never saw him sexually harassing women? yet he was doing it openly.

So no. I am not upset that boys and men are expected to treat females with respect and not sexually degrade them.

[MineralMan]

63. No doubt there are many.

[sl8]

65. Anyone can be accused. n/t

[infidel621]

76. People are actually saying yes? Seriously?!?

At some point in our lives we have all said or done SOMETHING that SOMEONE would deem inappropriate, even if it was 20 years ago.

[Blue_Adept]

81. This is very true

Nobody is innocent in this - and they may not even realize what they've said because of the culture of it all and how it impacted someone else. To believe otherwise is just mindboggling.

[Skittles]

83. there's a difference between risque humor and predatory behavior

and there are plenty of men who participate in neither

[Lint Head]

90. I would say the majority could be accused but not all are necessarily

guilty.