Huge California water supplier plans to reduce deliveries

[Zorro]

Source: AP

One of California's largest water wholesalers moved forward Monday on a plan to reduce the amount of water it delivers to more than two dozen cities and agencies serving 19 million people amid the lengthening drought.

If approved by the board of the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California on Tuesday, regional water deliveries would be cut by 15 percent beginning in July. The district serves parts of Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino and Ventura counties.

The effects of the cuts would vary between local water districts. Places that have done a poor job of conserving would have to crack down on outdoor watering and take other conservation measures and boost water rates to avoid paying a high price for extra water.

Several committee members wanted a deeper cut in deliveries — 20 percent — but were outvoted by others who feared it could hurt the economy.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/southern-california-water-agencies-brace-water-cutbacks-163714112.html

[NYC_SKP]

1. Good. Too much water is wasted in outdoor watering, other uses.

We need to hit agriculture, too, and industrial uses, but lavish green lawns need to go away in favor of drought resistant plants.

[Major Hogwash]

5. Is it true Gov. Brown removed the restrictions to the cost of water charged by water suppliers?

That starting this month or next, water suppliers can raise their water rates, with no restrictions whatsoever?
I read about that in an article posted here at the DU, but it didn't garner much attention from Californians posting here.

[NYC_SKP]

7. I think there's talk about that, and closing some loopholes for some who've been getting it cheap.

But I cannot find the articles to support these particularly.

http://www.latintimes.com/california-drought-jerry-brown-hints-higher-water-cost-farms-latino-workers-will-be-308213

[PasadenaTrudy]

16. I worry

that all the wealthy 'hoods will just keep their massive lawns. I drive through rich sections of Pasadena and all of San Marino and don't see any changes. These people can afford fines and higher water bills. For them, a huge lawn is a sign of success. So disgusting and childish, IMO.

[NYC_SKP]

26. Municipalities can ban these, and fine them all to hell if they want.

And they should.

I recommend tiered charges with exorbitant fees for any use above 50 gallons/person/day and stiff fines and jail time and property forfeiture for scofflaws.

I'm not kidding.

[chernabog]

27. I am for this.

This goes for all who eat dead animals as well. They are the worst water wasters of all.

[PasadenaTrudy]

33. Hey....

Sorry, not becoming a vegetarian or vegan any time soon...sorry. I'm doing my part by being childfree, no lawn, and bathing like 2x per week.

[NYC_SKP]

35. Hi, me too as much as I do understand the water impact on meat.

...and I'm child free, which is probably a bigger contribution than anything else.

And really one bath a day is excessive, and I've argued with people on this board who insist that they need two or three showers a day because they go to the gym.

Grrrr.

[PasadenaTrudy]

36. I walk miles a day

and don't need two or three showers. Oh well...

[chernabog]

37. Hey...

You're directly contributing to the biggest problem.
So no, you're not really doing much.

[PasadenaTrudy]

34. I hope they do.

No need for golf course size lawns in L.A.

[jimmydwight]

2. I suppose this would be a good opportunity to raise rates, and fine users.

Opportunities don't come around too often. All in the name of drought, you understand.

[JDPriestly]

13. Simplistic answers.

Raising rates and fining users will not save old trees with roots that stabilize hillsides and mountains. Raising rates and fining users will not delay or prevent fires.

I have cut back on watering. The grass that spontaneously grew in my front yard thanks to the few inches of rain that fell this year is dead, brown and dry on the ground. So are my California poppies. I have a few vegetables in pots and succulents in the front yard plus several old trees. All but two of my trees are well over 30 years old. I know because I have lived with them for over 30 years. If we don't get rain, and if I don't water, those trees may die. My hillside may subside, and I may find my house down at the bottom of the hill. You see. Los Angeles is a hilly city, located in a sort of valley below mountains.

The pattern is that we get a drought. The earth dries up. Then we get a torrent of rain. The clay earth fills and in a regular cycle certain hillsides, usually those without good trees and roots holding the soil together, just slide right down. Near us, hillside slid a few years ago taking one end of a house with it. The house is gone now. The hillside is a constant reminder that the cycle of drought and then torrential rain is one we need to manage in a better way.

Then there is the loss of wildlife. Another problem.

So just conservation is not going to work for California if we are starting a century of drought as we have been warned.

I hope the prediction of long-term drought is wrong.

38,000,000 people live in California. Over 10% of the American population. Drought is no joke here.

http://geography.about.com/od/obtainpopulationdata/a/californiapopulation.htm

[snooper2]

15. Well, as it gets worse in CA the population will decline-

so in effect that should help matters-

Toyota is moving from CA to Plano TX down the road from me so that is 4000 less people using water in there.

[JDPriestly]

17. Is water plentiful in Plano Tx?

As I pointed out, 38,000,000, that's 38 million people live in California, predominantly Democrats in spite of our elections of Republican governors.

I'm sure Texas will be delighted to have a lot of us liberals move to Texas and drink Texas' water.

We don't need more people in California. But even with a lower population than we have, we will need a solution to our lack of water other than just conservation, important as using less water is.

Conservation of water can kill trees and wildlife and actually make the cycle of drought worse.

My grandfather saw the beginning of the dust bowl in Oklahoma. Killing trees and drying the land to dust is not a good response to drought. It just isn't. The dust bowl proved it.

[snooper2]

18. we've been under water restrictions for years, but it's a lot better this year-

been getting a shitload of rain the past couple months-

Our water reservoirs are apparently at 70.5%

http://www.waterdatafortexas.org/reservoirs/statewide

[CreekDog]

20. 4000 people didn't move out of California because of the Toyota decision

try harder to get it right.

[snooper2]

23. we'll they ALL should...we have better deals on homes :)

But at least half will



First wave of Toyota move to Plano will bring 500 people to the area next summer
Published: 30 September 2014 09:35 PM



Though she declined to say how many employees Toyota expects to move, others have estimated that it will probably be between 50 and 60 percent.

“We expect that we will need to make hundreds of hires locally, and the pool of workers here was one of the reasons we chose Plano,” Hamp said.

Moreno said the company studied other relocations and understands that it will need to fill many jobs at the new headquarters.

“While we want everyone to come on the journey with us, we realize that not everyone — for a variety of reasons — can make the trip with us,” he said.

The total number of jobs associated with the move is likely to be significantly higher than 4,000.


http://www.dallasnews.com/business/autos-latest-news/20140930-first-wave-of-toyota-move-will-bring-500-people-to-the-area-next-summer.ece

[chernabog]

19. Do you consume animal products?

[chapdrum]

3. When we have to choose between

the economy and water, one will ultimately prevail.

[davidpdx]

4. How about a moratorium on bottling water in California for two years

Shut it all down and let the aquifers fill back up.

[YOHABLO]

6. How about golf courses and elitist private clubs ..members only $$$?

[quadrature]

8. Almonds seem to be more important than people

why is that?

[JDPriestly]

9. Conservation is not going to supply the more than 38,000,000 people

who live in California with adequate water.

We should be focusing on increasing our water supply through the use of solar energy for desalination. The oceans are rising. We have plenty of solar energy. And there is no way we can save enough water so that we can all have enough to drink and bathe and live in reasonably hygienic conditions.

More than 10% of the US population lives in California.
Here is the chart:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html

population over 38,000,000 in California.
total US population: 318,857,056

We are conserving water. But conservation will not be enough. We might as well bite the bullet now. And if corporations want to sell bottled water in California, they should import that water from someplace that has a surplus of water.

No company should be allowed to profit from mining water within the state of California for commercial sale other than to municipal water companies.

During the crisis of WWII, companies' rights to make exorbitant profits were limited. We need to do that in California now with regard to water mined within our state -- limit profits from water and prohibit the mining by private companies of the water from the aquifers and springs in our state.

If and when the drought ends then the private companies can return to profit from California water. But for now, they should be barred.

[Viva]

11. Desalination Waste

Where are you planning on putting the effluent of Super Salty Brine that is the main by-product? Desalination is not the magic solution. Changing the landscaping (removing palm trees and lawns, etc) would save more water. And yes, the farmers can change their irrigation practices also.

I do agree, California bottled water is horrid in these conditions! How about a 1000% tax on California bottled water until the drought is over. That tax should be paid at the water source by those harvesting the water. I am sure that all the bottlers will stop production immediately.

[JDPriestly]

12. Trust me. Changing the landscaping will not save more water.

And have you ever tried to remove a palm tree?

They grow up spontaneously. I've taken out a few little ones. Can't stand them personally. But it's really hard to dig them out. And then they come back sometimes in multiples of the one you dug out.

There are no easy answers, but lawns in my area are already pretty brown. People are watering very little.

One huge problem is that our sparse landscaping will not save our old trees or the wild life that relies on our rare and bare streams, arroyos, ponds and the even rarer lakes.

California, I will repeat has over 38,000,000 residents. That's more than 10% of the population of the US.

Our water problem is a national problem, and simple formulaic commands like "don't water your lawn" are not going to help.

We have to figure out what to do with the salt-brine because I don't see any way that California will be habitable for much of our population if we don't desalinate water. Transporting water from the Midwest? For 38,000,000 people plus wildlife and farms. I really don't think that is going to be problemless either.

So a new technological adventure is about to begin: figuring out what to do with the salt brine.

The alternative could be death not just to wildlife but to many people.

As for maintaining trees. Our house was built in the 1920s as were many in our area. We have three avocado trees and several other trees. They cool our house in the hot summers. We don't have air conditioning. I repeat. We live in Los Angeles and are comfortable most of the summer without air conditioning because we have trees. We have shade. If we don't water our trees, they will die.

Updating our house and installing air conditioning will require a lot of energy and create more heat. Trees and green landscaping cool everything down. The roots absorb the water that does fall, so actually green landscaping and trees help the soil save water. If the earth is hot without grass or plants (I planted succulents and grow a few vegetables in pots) and trees, the water evaporates.

The answers to our drought considering our climate are not as easy as many seem to think.

The ocean is rising. I understand that the water is becoming more acidic thanks to all the CO2 we are pushing into the air.

http://pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification

If I have to air condition my house, I will begin to push even more CO2 into the air. I will be adding to the vicious circle of pollution and climate change.

Whether and how the salinity of the water is changing is being studied.

http://news.discovery.com/earth/oceans/are-the-oceans-getting-saltier.htm

It may be that we can simply process the salty brine and use some of it for some industrial purpose we have not yet developed and put some of it back into the ocean.

But 38,000,000 people struggling for water is a technological challenge we will have to meet. Planting succulents with their thick, water saving leaves will not do the trick. Desert plants are a cosmetic solution.

I wish you could have seen the mallard ducks I saw in the Arroyo recently. They were so trusting, following the few inches of water, lapping it up. Not enough water to swim. Not much if anything to eat. They are doomed. The little brown speckled female obediently following the proud, green-backed male along the Arroyo, the water barely there at all. It is heart-breaking.

Gardeners in California are also going to have a very rough time.

But no. There are no simple answers. And this is going to be a big test for the rest of America. Do you want California to remain a state in the Union. Are you willing to pay the price? California was a donor state in terms of tax revenues for many years. A lot of the Southern states were takers. California could easily become a state that needs aid for water management. We shall see how this turns out.

I am not encouraged when I read on DU the kind of simplistic advice that says save water or get rid of your lawns. Those are good things to do but they are not going to begin to solve our problem.

[CreekDog]

21. changing the landscaping does save water

do the math.

your rhetorical question about removing palm trees is not scientific evidence.

[JDPriestly]

24. But not if the landscaping has pretty much already been changed.

Even doing the math, the limits on the water saved by changing landscaping won't solve the problem in Los Angeles. It just won't be enough. And it won't help the wild life. Even the lizards are desperately searching for food now and it is only April.

August is normally our dried up and brown month. This year it is April.

I'm not against desert landscapes. I just do not believe it will be enough to solve our very, very serious problem. People do not realize what a crisis we are in. We have 38,000,000 people in California and not enough water.

Frankly, why don't we just make baths and showers and washing dishes illegal? We probably still would not be conserving enough water.

We have to find a way to desalinate large amounts of water and deal with all the problems that will raise. We have to replenish our aquifers artificially. Some think we will get rain next fall. That would be great on the one hand, but will bring new problems such as mudslides and the loss of whole hillsides even in urban areas.

We meddle with nature in all sorts of ways. We have to find a way to meddle with nature that makes a dry climate hospitable to life. Either that or drastically cut down our population growth.

What do you mean by this question:

"your rhetorical question about removing palm trees is not scientific evidence."

I have had palm trees grow up a bit in my yard. It is hard to really get all the roots out and if you don't the tree grows back. They are just awfully tenacious. My neighbor also tried to get rid of a palm tree. I think a bunch of them are now growing in the area in which he tried to get rid of the one.

[chernabog]

25. I would like to hear your thoughts on animal agriculture

Can you weigh in on that please?

[NickB79]

28. We can't desalinate our way out of this

The economics and sheer scale just don't work. My God, the pure volume of water consumed by even a fraction of CA's farmland is so far beyond what is feasible with modern technology it boggles the mind. And if you somehow managed to build enough desal. plants to supply them with enough water, you end up with a landscape crisscrossed by pipelines and canals. AND you then have to build additional solar and wind to supply the power to pump the water long distances, as you'll be starting at sea level and going UP, not down like most irrigation systems from the mountains do.

If this drought is tied to climate change (and there is a lot of evidence saying it is), then what you're experiencing may well be the "new normal". We haven't even seen 1C of planetary warming in the past 150 years, and the best science is predicting 2C or more of additional warming over the next century.

In other words, this drought may. not. end. At least, not in our lifetimes. It may improve in some years, and worsen in others, but the long-term trend seems to be drier and drier years over the next century for your part of the nation.

In which case, you can't realistically build nearly enough desalination plants to make up for the loss of regular rainfall and snowmelt runoff. At best, you could supply the major cities of CA, but the agricultural regions are SOL. And without a vibrant agricultural base, the state will eventually see a mass exodus of citizens, just as Dust Bowl states did in the 1930's.

The only solution left is adaptation, but modern technology doesn't have the capability to maintain current lifestyles and economies when faced with a natural disaster of this magnitude. Populations will have to move, economies will have to shift and/or collapse, and ultimately we'll have to make sacrifices we never thought we'd be making.

[Backwoodsrider]

10. Brown usually makes wise decisions

I trust he and the rest in California are doing what they can. As a population we need to take long and hard look at how something may effect such a large food source before we make any changes. The El Nino is back. I am just across Cali border and its raining right now. This drought is temporary I expect the rain to come back pretty heavy this fall and yeah it needs to be years of that to get the water levels back up. Besides, peoples behavior is much easier to change than an Almond tree.

[CreekDog]

22. The El Nino is weak

and weak El Ninos are not associated with wet years.

[chernabog]

14. Animal Agriculture is the problem

◾2,500 gallons of water are used to produce one pound of beef compared to 100 gallons for a pound of wheat.

◾Vegetables use about 11,300 gallons of blue* water per ton. Pork, beef and butter use 121,000, 145,000 and 122,800 gallons per ton respectively. (*Blue water is water stored in lakes, rivers and aquifers.)

◾Each day, cows consume 23 gallons of water; humans drink less than one.

◾The amount of water needed to produce a gallon of milk is equivalent to one month of showers.

◾132 gallons of water are used every time an animal is slaughtered.

[kelly1mm]

29. Do you have any cites for those figures? Not disagreeing, just would like more info. I do

find the 132 gallons per slaughtered animal to be high (maybe for large carcass animals in industrial settings). We process our own home raised chickens and hunted game here and use not even 10% of that amount per animal.

[chernabog]

30. Here are some links

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/opinion/meat-makes-the-planet-thirsty.html?_r=0

http://bioscience.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/10/909.full

http://www.cspinet.org/EatingGreen/pdf/arguments4.pdf

http://blog.epa.gov/healthywaters/2012/03/virtual-water-real-impacts-world-water-day-2012/

[kelly1mm]

31. Thanks! nt

[Trillo]

32. Will zoning be changed to allow 8 foot walls around houses?

Landscaping has been the privacy guard from the rest of the world. With more restrictions, no one will have any plants. Will zoning realize they need to adapt as well to protect residents privacy from other neighbors and assassins driving by in squad cars?