Sources: Supervisors told to falsify (Tulsa) reserve deputy's training records

[Newsjock]

Source: Tulsa World

Supervisors at the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office were ordered to falsify a reserve deputy’s training records, giving him credit for field training he never took and firearms certifications he should not have received, sources told the Tulsa World.

At least three of reserve deputy Robert Bates’ supervisors were transferred after refusing to sign off on his state-required training, multiple sources speaking on condition of anonymity told the World.

Bates, 73, is accused of second-degree manslaughter in the shooting death of Eric Harris during an undercover operation on April 2.

The sources’ claims are corroborated by records, including a statement by Bates after the shooting, that he was certified as an advanced reserve deputy in 2007.

Read more: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/sources-supervisors-told-to-falsify-reserve-deputy-s-training-records/article_a6330f10-a9fb-51e3-ab5e-4d97b03c6c04.html

[SoapBox]

1. That's a lot of "brass" on the part of those so-called supervisors.

Really? And they thought that was ok? Like no one would find out?

Best word I can think of is arrogant.

[TorchTheWitch]

2. no, they didn't think it was ok

Which is why they refused to do it and were transferred out because of their refusal. Right there in the OP.

[Stuart G]

22. This is really the key to this story..what you wrote above.

"At least three of reserve deputy Robert Bates’ supervisors were transferred after refusing to sign off on his state-required training, multiple sources speaking on condition of anonymity told the World. "

So, These three wouldn't play along, so they were, "transferred out"..to where? and why?

and these three did the right thing, and got punished for it..What to you know?? These three wouldn't lie for the sheriff's friend and campaign chairman. What do you know?

[TorchTheWitch]

26. further on in the article is said something about transfer

to "undesirable duty". Or something like that. I guess they were transferred out of the reserve system to do something else undesirable like maybe traffic control or something like that. I'll have to read the whole article again. And that part mentioned other people as well other than just these three supervisors but I can't remember exactly what about that.

The article was also saying that the sheriff's office mysteriously couldn't find any of his paperwork about his training and specifically couldn't find the paperwork involving his firearms training. The video with the article was a lot more clear about that, and basically it comes down to Bates not passing the firearms training and likely not anything else... the sheriff just had people sign off on things he never did or never passed. More toward the end of either this article or another one a sheriff's deputy was saying that the reservists are never even involved in the type of work that Bates was doing especially with this incident. They use reservists to do surveillance or traffic control for a big event, and stuff like that. He should never have been with the squad he was with in this incident in the first place.

There's really no question that the sheriff was letting his old buddy play cop without training and doing duty that no reservist even does anyway.

[Darb]

3. Damn, this is ugly.

Since when do old fucks get badges and guns, FFS?

[TorchTheWitch]

5. I still can't pick my jaw up off the floor about this

Just looking at the photo of the guy there's no way he qualified for anything. The article is just unreal. The sheriff's office mysteriously can't find any records pertaining to his supposed training, 3 supervisors were told to sign off on training he never did, refused to do so and were transferrred to undesirable duty, the sheriff says that he entered the reserves unit in 2008 but Bates said right after the shooting that he became and advanced reservist in 2007, and on and on and on.

Cripes, there's just no way this guy had any of the minimal training, his records about his training were falsified, the sheriff's office "can't find them" and just looking at this guy there's no way he could have passed the training yet he's good buddies with the sheriff and was given weapons and put into situations that reservists have no business being part of in the first place.

I'm amazed he wasn't shooting at people willy nilly for years already. How in the world did the real officers put up with this clown?

>>>THUD<<<

[Yallow]

7. Supervisor Should Be Prosecuted

Must be a crime falsifying training records.

When cops have to follow the law like the rest of us things will finally improve.

[Judi Lynn]

24. Surely looks that way!

Welcome to D.U., Yallow.

[TorchTheWitch]

30. it's the sheriff himself that needs to be prosecuted

along with any supervisors that were bullied into signing off on anything like that one that is now working for the Secret Service. Good on the three supervisors that refused to sign this clown off on training he didn't take or didn't pass that were punished by being transferred elsewhere. All this crap was the sheriff's doing. And now the sheriff's office is saying that Bates' paperwork "got lost"!

Incredible. This sheriff let his good old buddy play cop willy nilly without training or not passing the training or both and in situations that reservists are never used to begin with just like this incident with Harris. Bates as a reservist even if he HAD taken and passed all the training and instruction should never have been allowed to be involved in that kind of duty.

This sheriff belongs in jail right beside his rich old buddy.

[calimary]

8. You and me both!

I can't believe this. It's just beyond the beyond. He had NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER going out on sting operations, and armed. This guy should have been a crosswalk guard. At MOST. Just because he throws a lot of money around and buys the sheriff's department all kinds of new toys, that does NOT entitle him to suit up and go out in public with the pros and play cop. "I shot him. Sorry." GEEEEEZ!!!!!



And then to dig down into it and find he had NO certification, NO training, phonied-up papers, Good Grief!!! I guess when you're the sheriff's personal sugar daddy, you can have anything you want. Including manslaughter charges against you.

[brush]

19. Exactly!

He didn't have the training and when he was in a stressful situation where training needed to kick in he panicked and pull his gun instead of the taser and killed someone.

By the time the victim's family gets through suing that town it might have to close the police department down for lack of funds — not enough zeroes in the world to put on the end of this huge settlement that's coming.

And all those "supervisors" that signed off on this or new about it, they can forget about their jobs.

[Dale Neiburg]

11. A lot of us old fucks are capable of handling guns...

and, yes, badges safely (as my wife did until she died two years ago).

[jtuck004]

12. "Old fucks"? Speaking of ugly, been a bigot long? Btw, all the people

who made the decisions that put him in that place, that allowed him to act - i.e. falsifying records, were younger. I'm guessing your opinion of people, perhaps closer to your own age, must then also be pretty poor?

Or are you a hypocrite as well?

There is no difference between someone who attributes behavior to someone's skin color and the person who does the same thing for age, sex, religion, etc. So you are in good company.

[Hoppy]

15. My father was 75 when he decided he wanted to be a reserve officer.

He completed the course and his score on the firing range was passing, with the highest score in his class.

We went on to serve as a volunteer for 7 years until he passed. He did not carry a weapon, nor did he want to but his score indicates he would have been o.k. on that.


Your reference to old fucks is why seniors are experiencing job discrimination.

[eggplant]

31. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:12 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Damn, this is ugly.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1068642

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Bigotry, ageism. 73 is an "old fuck"? Other posters have called them on this but they seem to think it ok. Wife not as bad as other posts, still it is not cool.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:22 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I was on the fence on this, but decided it does fall under ageism.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I saw this earlier and let it go, but enough people made legitimate complaints in replies, so hide it is.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter must be overreacting to the word 'fuck.' I don't agree it's ageism to question the badging and arming of a 73-year old, let alone involving said 73 yo part timer on a stake out. The result surprised no one.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: 73 is old.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: 'Other posters have called them on this but they seem to think it ok. Wife not as bad as other posts, still it is not cool.'

Sounds like more is going on than the guy's age with this Alert.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[DeSwiss]

4. K&R

- The sound you {click}---> hear is the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office taking out the finances of the entire county in 15 seconds.

[DetlefK]

10. Well, it's not like cops have to pay when cops fuck up.

[DeSwiss]

32. We all pay in the end. n/t

[dpibel]

6. He got the important part

At least it's clear that he got trained on what to say when you've killed someone:

"He reached for his waistband."

Who needs firearms training when you've learned the magic words?

[Yallow]

9. Asshole Who Gave Him Badge

Should be prosecuted as and accessory to murder.

He helped a known unqualified asshat get access to a weapon and a badge, then shoot someone.

Sounds like an open and shut case to me.

[Thor_MN]

18. Bingo.

[Sienna86]

13. The sherif should be charged

Ordering falsification of government records. Are the local folks outraged?

[Stuart G]

21. Here is a comment the by the Sheriff Stanley Glantz about the shooting, made Monday..

"He made an error," Sheriff Stanley Glantz told The Tulsa World newspaper. "How many errors are made in an operating room every week?"

Aside from being a reserve deputy, Bates is an insurance company executive who has donated thousands of dollars in equipment to the sheriff's office. Glantz described him to the newspaper as a friend going back some 50 years who also had served as his insurance agent.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
more info on Glantz and Bates,

"The Tulsa World previously reported that Bates chaired Glantz's 2012 re-election effort and donated $2,500 to the sheriff's campaign."
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So it looks like Sheriff Glantz fixed the records so his pal/campaign chairman could play cop. If this story is true, that some supervisors would not approve records, and someone overruled those supervisors, then Sheriff Glantz needs to spend a long time in prison, as an inmate, not a supervisor..think that will happen???? In Oklahoma???

[Runningdawg]

28. Some of us are

but as usual we are outnumbered by those who believe this nation could use a good flush of the gene pool and are sad to see his unsullied reputation as a patriot dragged through the mud by race baiters. The general consensus is "give him a medal and hire 10 more just like him".

[Demeter]

14. this is the way Rich Old White Man Privilege Crumbles

may it return to the ashes and dust it has consigned far too many "others", for eternity.

[Novara]

16. So, essentially they let him pay to play cop and kill poeple.....

....and they not only allowed it, they reassigned anyone who tried to make sure he was trained properly, thereby, absolutely setting up a tragedy.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[Paladin]

17. It's a lot more believable to me now than it would have been, six months ago.

The wheels are really coming off this nation's law enforcement systems, which is probably a good thing.

[Stuart G]

20. k and r...nt

[arcane1]

23. Supervisors were transferred after refusing to sign off!!!!

This asshole had more power than the police themselves!!!!

[herding cats]

25. "The sheriff’s deputy that certified Bates has moved on to work for the Secret Service"

Perhaps this explains a bit of what's going on at the Secret Service, too.

[libdem4life]

27. The Police Union should provide insurance, not pillage the City/Taxpayer funds. Like Errors and

Ommissions insurance required by service professionals, such as real estate agents and insurance agents. Their "errors" seldom end in death, but they pay steep fees. One payout, and your payment goes up. That is the only way I can see that police and their unions will be held accountable.

[Corey_Baker08]

29. As Someone With An Associates In Criminal Justice I Too Question His Training

I simply couldn't imagine an out of shape 73 year old man having to go through the extensive physical & mental training as well as the firearms testing required to become even a Reserve Police Officer...Especially an 'Advanced' Reserve Deputy.

I have a feeling that some paperwork was falsified or just ignored completely for fear that Mr. Bates would cut the so called charitable donations to the department off...