Wisconsin Republicans introduce bill to require photo IDs for food stamp recipients

[hue]

Source: The Cap Times

Food stamp recipients in Wisconsin would be required to use photo ID cards for their purchases under a bill being proposed by two Republican lawmakers.

Rep. Jesse Kremer, R-Kewaskum, says the proposal is an effort to crack down on waste, fraud and abuse and to make programs like FoodShare more efficient. But detractors say it would shame those living in poverty, with no discernible benefit.

The bill, currently being circulated for co-sponsorship, would require the state Department of Health Services to submit an implementation plan to the U.S. Department of Agriculture for approval to issue electronic benefit transfer (EBT) cards with photo identification to participants in FoodShare, the state's successor to the food stamps program. Sen. Steve Nass, R-Whitewater, is the Senate's lead sponsor.

It would also require DHS to submit a waiver request to the USDA, to allow DHS to require FoodShare recipients to show their photo EBT card when making purchases.




Read more: http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-republicans-introduce-bill-to-require-photo-ids-for-food/article_ecac7028-0c95-5757-88cf-76149a8fab4b.html

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This sh!# never ends with the Repukes!

[Laurian]

1. Can they use that photo ID to vote?

Probably not.....Republicans are so hateful.

[Cal33]

45. They are not only hateful, they're also totally corrupt.

[Ms. Yertle]

2. This could also

protect recipients. Those of us who still write checks need to show ID. Some of us actually write "See ID" on the signature line of our credit cards.

[BumRushDaShow]

7. Here's the problem

From the article -

EBT cards, or QUEST cards, already require a PIN for use. But Kremer said adding a photo ID would prevent someone from using a card that was lost even if the PIN were to be identified. It would also crack down on sales of cards on social media or the black market, he said

So using this nonsensical justification as if what happens with EBTs is somehow unique, pushing for this could easily lead to requiring photos on debit cards with PINs (although some banks offer this as an option), which could further go down a slippery slope that already plagues photo driver's licenses - the inevitable arguments about whether "you" are the person in the photo. If you need more security, they might want to consider the chip & PIN, which is now required for regular credit cards (by October 2015 if I remember correctly).

And if I'm not mistaken, a household ("family&quot would basically get one card. So say you have a single-parent household with minor children, and this includes the oldest who is 15 and obviously old enough to shop unaccompanied. So if that single parent whose photo is on the card is sick at home (say with flu or other ailment), then the 15-year old would not be able to purchase food for his/her parent and siblings with the card because his/her photo is not on the EBT, despite the fact the card covers benefits for him/her as a member of the family. And this can be projected out to all sorts of scenarios...

When you write out a check, whether you have your own account or a shared account, YOU are tied to that account (as either an individual or alternate) and it makes sense to show ID. But with these cards, they can represent a household of people including minors.

[matt819]

35. At the same time. . .

Some people with EBT cards sell them for cash. Maybe that's fine; I don't know. But let's assume that the purpose of the cards is subverted when recipients sell the cards.

This would argue for a photo ID of some sort.

Your point is very well taken that multiple members in a family are likely to use a card, and right now all they need is a PIN (I didn't even know that a PIN was required, but it makes sense that it is).

So how would you guard against fraud - selling the card for cash - and still allow the card to be used by more than one person?

Or should we care? And I don't ask that with a snarky atttitude? If a card recipient sells a card for cash, should we care? The seller gets cash for whatever he wants to use it - food, drink, rent, etc. - and the buyer gets to use it for, well, for food. So you could argue that it's a win-win.

[jtuck004]

37. At the same time thieving bank$ters are stealing billions.Some people's priorities are insane.

Maybe if we held those bastards to account for their part in our ongoing financial crisis, we wouldn't have to be the small kind of "person" who picks on a handful of the least powerful people for a miserably small amount of money, neighbors who used to have good jobs, who now have to live on food stamps.

Perhaps that's because everyone looks so small from atop that high horse of self-righteousness.

[snort]

43. Put a dollar sign on them

representing their value and make it legal to sell them? hmmm.

[BumRushDaShow]

48. "Some people with EBT cards sell them for cash"

And here is the problem. These "people" can't keep continually going back to get a new card to claim it was "lost" because the card is the card and it is tied to a whole convoluted process to obtain in the first place. So if the "card buyer" gets the card and it gets loaded monthly, then the person who it was originally for wouldn't get anything more after that, so there's a net loss for the seller.

And even if it becomes a fiat item with an assigned value passed around and around in the underground economy, this is nothing different from the old food "coupons" that were the norm until the debit cards came into effect. But the difference is a level of security (the PIN) that has been added and the ability to actually track the transactions.

But just like farmers must account for losses, you are going to have some losses no matter what system - including having an ID, because a retailer is looking at the $$$$ that they are going to get for the goods and they usually don't care who is on the other side of the register giving that store the $$$.

In essence, an ID is a "solution" being applied without thought to the actual "problem", and the magnification of something like this as a mountain out of a mole hill compared to true losses to the government due to fraud, e.g., wealthy tax cheats or scammers who file false tax returns using someone else's name and SS # to get a refund (including if the person wasn't even due one as the info provided may have been false). So if you take the ID usage another step further, should we have to show ID to file our income tax returns to ensure it is really "us" filing?

So back to the EBT - according to USDA, who manages the program (from a 2013 press release) -

USDA Releases New Report on Trafficking and Announces Additional Measures to Improve Integrity in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program

Release No.
FNS-0012.13

Contact:
FNS Office of Communications and Governmental Affairs [phone]

WASHINGTON, August 15, 2013 – Agriculture Undersecretary for Food, Nutrition and Consumer Services Kevin Concannon today released a report that examines the trafficking rate in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and better pinpoints where the vast majority of SNAP trafficking occurs—smaller stores that typically offer minimal access to the healthier foods encouraged by the Dietary Guidelines for Americans. In response, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) will begin gathering public input on establishing stricter “depth of stock” requirements for SNAP retailers in order to discourage bad actors from entering and abusing the program. This move also supports USDA’s continuing efforts to improve SNAP recipients’ access to healthy foods.

The report indicates that the vast majority of trafficking – the illegal sale of SNAP benefits for cash or other ineligible items – occurs in smaller-sized retailers that typically stock fewer healthy foods. Over the last five fiscal years, the number of retailers authorized to participate in SNAP has grown by over 40 percent; small- and medium-sized retailers account for the vast majority of that growth. The rate of trafficking in larger grocery stores and supermarkets—where 82 percent of all benefits were redeemed—remained low at less than [font size="5" font color="red"]0.5 percent.[/font]

http://www.fns.usda.gov/pressrelease/2013/fns-001213

[valerief]

3. You get what you vote for. nt

[blackspade]

4. Show it to whom?

Is the store clerk now an enforcer of the state?
Another law in search of a problem......

[Ed Suspicious]

10. This.

This is different than checking ids for liquor/tobacco.

[NutmegYankee]

15. They have been for quite some time.

Just go buy some beer.

[blackspade]

34. False analogy

Regulated liquor sales are vastly different from buying food.

It's just more poor shaming from the rethugs and their authoritarian enablers.

[NutmegYankee]

36. It isn't an analogy at all. It's a fact!

You said "Is the store clerk now an enforcer of the state? " Clearly they are enforcing state laws when purchasing Alcohol, Cigarettes, Bullets in some states, certain medicines, etc.

I'm well aware the current proposal is poor shaming. But your logic just didn't hold.

[blackspade]

52. we will have to disagree about this then.

Alcohol, Cigarettes, Bullets are not food.

[NutmegYankee]

54. I don't understand your point.

An enforcer is an official who enforces laws. Food is not part of that definition. That the topic is food makes it even more disgusting, but that doesn't mean that clerks were not already enforcers.

[asjr]

5. The Inquisition is making a comeback.

[SoapBox]

27. ^^^ This ^^^

[mopinko]

6. so, if you are disabled, you cant have someone shop for you?

my roommate is seriously disabled. sometimes she summons up a whole day's worth of energy to go to the store, but sometimes she cant.
so she has me or her sister do some shopping for her.

she cant be the only one.

[Augiedog]

8. Food stamp police

So they, repucklians, want grocery store clerks to check ID's on food stamp users, cause we all know how fun it is to use food stamps and cheat the system, driving wing tip wearing republicans crazy. Inquiring minds, unlike those minds of the wrong wingers, want to know. Will the cashiers and ID checkers be armed? Can they shoot if they think the ID and the presenter are not one and the same? Will stores have to hire bouncers? How much will poor people have to pay for an acceptable ID? May that ID be used for voting purposes? Will this ID be a special color so that the user can be identified from a great distance, perhaps the ID should be the size of a cereal box and maybe equipped with a signaling device that announces when said ID is being used. Why don't we skip the whole ID card thing and go a much simpler route, we just spray paint the food stamp users a nice fluorescent color, I'm thinking green. Orange is already being used by hunters and we wouldn't want store clerks accidentally shooting NRA members. The opportunities here are limitless for the enterprising right wing nut job, just think, one of you could open a spray paint service and if you pay the right politician just enough you can have your own monopoly on human paint booths. Maybe a special law that allows food stamps to be used to pay for that service could be enacted.

[jwirr]

19. While the gov may think the clerks are going to be policemen I think this will soon fall by the way.

First when you go to the clerk she/he do not even touch the card. You swipe it through the machine yourself. Nor does the store owners want their clerks wasting time looking at the card because there is a line waiting behind you that need to be assisted. No store is going to want to pay the extra wages for looking at IDs. They are in the business of selling groceries. That is all they want to do.

[Dragonfli]

24. It depends on the store, here some stores check thoroughly, some don't

It also depends on the cashier obviously.

The store closest to me (that is a non chain convenience store with a deli and even some produce as well as the usual soda, chips, and gas pumps) even has a special rule, you swipe credit cards as usual, but the EBT card swiper is behind the counter and you have to hand the card to the cashier, this is uncommon but an annoyance.

Two blocks down is a little corner store where no one bothers to look or challenge you in any way, they figure if you know the pin you are not using a stolen card (just like with any other credit or debit card).

Reading posts here I am noticing that it does not appear people posting here have personal experience with this stuff. That is a good thing and means not everybody is hurting as bad as most by where I live, but I wonder if it makes it more difficult for a few to understand what sub middle class people have to deal with and live like.

[KansDem]

9. Again, from the "Party of Less Government"

[dembotoz]

11. god I love that artwork

[Dragonfli]

12. In my county (Erie NY) EBT cards already have photos, not sure if it is a state or county thing

The county office here is where applications are processed and cases are managed which has always confused me as to who sets the rules.

I think they are unnecessary.

[jwirr]

17. The state sets the rules. Most people could not go a long distance to apply. But the cards are sent

out from the state and the billing goes directly to the state from the store. When you call the number on the back of the card to see how many food stamps you have left you are talking to the state. The state does have to follow Federal guidelines which is why WI would have to seek a waiver.

[Dragonfli]

20. Thanks for the information, it was confusing to me as all the paperwork and such have county stamps

I suppose this means then that the entirety of NYS is saddled with this extra special effort to shame the poor, disabled and working poor with an extra scoop of examination (and yes occasionally ridicule) at the checkout counter.

It may appear as a minor thing, but I swear the camera set up in the county office is designed to make the recipient look like a convict, the pictures (something about the angle) make one appear ugly and like the picture was lifted from a mug shot. I have never seen one that didn't make the person look worse, I don't mean in a "I can't get a good picture on my license way", but in a "I look like a convict" way.

[cstanleytech]

13. So let me see if I understand the republican thought process.

Welfare receipts need to be identified in order to prevent fraud but donors to PACs like the Koch brothers support that in turn support republicans and are in essence bribing the politicians with support dont have to be identified???

[NutmegYankee]

18. They consider the poor a lower class to be mocked and deprived of dignity.

You can't reason with such creatures - they just hate the poor.

[Dragonfli]

22. If you thinkaboutit, there are some here that openly feel the same way

I have had conversations here that make that perfectly clear, it is especially sad when such attitudes come from the middle class towards the classes below them, we need the middle class on our side because they are the lowest class considered and addressed by both parties these days meaning that if the middle class doesn't stand up for the poor we will be completely invisible.

This support must come from the Democratic middle class no matter their pet policies, because it will never come from the Republican middle class, hell even the Republican poor are self loathing haters of the poor classes.

[NutmegYankee]

25. It sad, but people often rank their happiness by their relative position compared to others.

And I see many middle class people fall into this. They feel superior because they have had economic success compared to the poor.

At its core is the "hard work equals success" bullshit story.

[freshwest]

50. And love any chance to mention them, although I'm sure they get a miniscule share of the budget! n/t

[jwirr]

14. As long as it is at their expense this should be a plus. (I get food stamps) First it is them who

send me the EBT card so they can pay for it since I have a limited income. Second this should be legal evidence of who I am for voting, etc. This way if I am older or disabled or I do not drive I will not have to buy an ID card through the drivers license agency.

But there are real problems: For instance many people who are elderly or disabled have someone who buys their groceries for them. Will they have to get their photo on my card also. I don't think they have enough room to put all my children.

Just more government from a lot of people who insist on smaller government.

[PatrynXX]

16. wont work

some food stamp people have to have others get the stuff. cause thats why they are on food stamps .....

[Dragonfli]

23. We have such photos here already, and it is a real and tangible problem for some elderly

This may be anecdotal, but I pick up things for an elderly neighbor when I get a ride to go shopping. I have to go to an Aldies (store chain where food is cheaper than say Tops) where she and I made a special trip to talk to the manager, We had our pictures taken together for a note the manager said he will give the cashiers. So far I have had no problems and I hope the manager doesn't get in any trouble for it, I imagine it is against chain policy to do so, possibly not even technically legal.

The only other advice I have for those that will be hurt by this in other states as well as mine is to go to local small stores run by immigrants where checking the photo is lax to practically non-existent.

They are just trying to shame us further and if it results in some people that can't get around not being able to use their benefits as much or maybe not at all, that is a bonus in their cruel little minds.

[Jackpine Radical]

33. Sadly, I think your speculations about their motives are exactly right.

They get an extra little squirt of hate juices into their neurochemistry just thinking about hurting the vulnerable.

Here's sorta what I mean:

Excitatory neurotransmitters that potentiate rage behavior include excitatory amino acids, substance P, catecholamines, cholecystokinin, vasopressin, and serotonin that act through 5-HT2 receptors.

Allan Siegel,1,2,* Suresh Bhatt,1 Rekha Bhatt,1 and Steven S Zalcman2 The Neurobiological Bases for Development of Pharmacological Treatments of Aggressive Disorders. Curr Neuropharmacol. 2007 Jun; 5(2): 135–147.

Some of these neurotransmitters have reinforcing properties. I think one of the factors behind the maintenance of the wingnut mentality is that they keep seeking more of that rage fix, and their major source is the right-wing media.

[hue]

39. I agree with this 100%. The raw urge to hurt/seek revenge on someone who receives something you want

[Jackpine Radical]

40. From my "field observations," it seems to me

that they go out of their way to seek things to be enraged about, just for the rush of the rage.

That's it--the Rage Rush.

[hue]

41. Very precise name for it. Thanks! This is prob a consistent factor in their personality profile.

[Jackpine Radical]

42. Or is it the Rush rage rush?

[beachbum bob]

21. I have no idea why any one would oppose this requirement....fraudulent use

would be better controlled. I like to see it expand nationwide....same with any one receiving any benefit whether it food stamps, medicare or social security......then again the same conservatives mindset OPPOSES having an universal ID card.....that makes NO SENSE........Simple, have a requirement that social security card MUST have a photo on it and have it updated every 4 years. This is the universal ID card then as every american is suppose to a SS number.....this can also be used as voting ID as well

[truthisfreedom]

26. You didn't read any of this thread!

[dembotoz]

28. that is silly

[csziggy]

30. If the Photo IDs cost the applicant, it takes money from the poorest

It's the same issue as for requiring photo ID for voting - in some states it costs to get the ID. For instance, in Florida it costs $25 for the ID - but it costs at least $10 to get the certified copy of the birth certificate needed to apply for the ID. If you're a woman who changed her name when married, you also have to pay for a certified copy of your marriage certificate. If your husband died or you divorced and remarried, you have to get certified copies of those documents - at least $10 per item, plus either the time to travel to the clerk's offices or the mail to request them. They also require proof of residency - so unless your lease or utility bill is in your name, you have to get something to prove where you live.

Also in Florida, the photo ID expires just like a driver's license so you have to pay the $25 every so many years - though unless you have changed your name, you shouldn't have to obtain the proofs of who you are again. For someone who does not have money to pay for food, an extra $25 every few years - and the costs to get the documentation - are a heavy burden.

The advantage for Democrats is that this will get more people at the bottom to get photo IDs and that will remove one hurdle for getting them to vote. And if we can convince them that the extra money and hassle involved in getting the IDs can be laid firmly on the Republicans, maybe they will vote in their best interests - for Democratic candidates!

[hue]

38. In the US the right to vote is FREE! NO ONE is to pay for voting!

I really hope some day you, beachbum bob are incapacitated, develop a serious disease so you cannot get around independently. Perhaps you'll be in an assisted living situation, group home or nursing home where others do shopping for you. You could not drive but still had a mind to vote.
What about our Vets?? Some have lost limbs protecting our country including your beachbum ass. They may have others do food shopping for them especially in winter when its extra hard for them to get to a store. Or the elderly who have worked hard all their lives but one of their spouse must be watched all the time and the care giver cannot leave them to do the shopping?
These are just a few examples of folks who need others to shop for them.
You think its so damn easy to go every 4 years to get their cards updated...
Furthermore who would implement such an ID program? Would the owners of the IDs be required to pay for their photo and ID which may require a background check as well? It would be another program paid for and run by the taxpayers. The waste of money for these ID programs has already been demonstrated in the failed urine drug screening debacle.
You must be a RW troll to be so thoughtless, lacking in empathy and with zero knowledge of how others are struggling to survive. You really need karma to take you to the "other side".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
You really need karma to take you to the "other side".

... in 1962 the Twenty-fourth Amendment was adopted banning poll taxes in federal elections, and in 1966 the Supreme Court ruled in Harper v. Virginia State Board of Elections (1966)[60] that state poll taxes violate the Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause.[61][62]

[FLPanhandle]

29. "to crack down on waste, fraud and abuse"

A few logical questions:

1) How big is this problem?

2) How much money would be saved?

3) How much is this effort costing Wisconsin taxpayers?


Personally, it sounds like a "solution" without a problem.

[csziggy]

32. I would bet it is just like the drug testing for welfare recipients

It will cost more than any misuse of the system. The BIG problem is that requiring photo ID offsets the costs onto the users, just like it does for requiring photo ID for voting while the drug testing at least didn't make the people who tested clean pay for it. And BOTH ideas lay those costs on the poorest members of our society.

[brewens]

31. Better make it mandatory that those particular ID's are not valid for voting then.

You'd think they would be shitting in their own messkits there. So you make all these welfare recipients get ID's. Not for something like voting that they don't actually have to do, but for food. Every single one of them will have to go out and get an ID or they will starve. So now they all have ID's and can vote with it too!

[secondwind]

44. my oldest graduated from Ripon College in Ripon, WI.. I'm ashamed of what WI has become

under Scott Walker... It is truly disturbing and shameful...

[Thinkingabout]

46. Since some interested in prevent fraud, etc, it would be a good thing to have all of the

Recipients of farm subsidies to receive a EBT card and require them to also have an ID to be able to use the card. Since there are corporations which receives subsidies it will be quiet interesting how the corporation will be able to use the funds. It would also make other familiar with their neighbors receiving farm subsidies. Both of these programs are administered through the Agricultural dept.

[Cryptoad]

47. yea,,,,, s

they can they finger who is using all those food stamps on the Cruz Ships.......

[AC_Mem]

49. Why do republicans hate the poor?

Serious question. I really think they hate the poor and want them to suffer.

It baffles me. And further, most of them call themselves "Christian".

How in the world do they defend this? How do they sleep at night?

It makes me very sad for humanity.

[AuntPatsy]

51. We can only hope one day they find themselves in need so they can see for themselves

How their constituents feel...

[Politicalboi]

53. ID for food stamps

ID for a gun, How dare you.

[Danascot]

55. Wouldn't a better way to crack down on crack down on waste, fraud and abuse

be to get rid of Republican lawmakers?