Poland summons US envoy over FBI head's Holocaust comments

[alp227]

Last edited Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: AP

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland's Foreign Ministry urgently summoned U.S. Ambassador Stephen Mull on Sunday to "protest and demand an apology," saying the head of the FBI suggested that Poles were accomplices in the Holocaust.

FBI director James Comey made the remarks in an article about the Holocaust that was published by The Washington Post on Thursday. It was adapted from a speech he gave Wednesday at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

In the article, Comey said, "In their minds, the murderers and accomplices of Germany, and Poland, and Hungary, and so many, many other places didn't do something evil. They convinced themselves it was the right thing to do, the thing they had to do."

Prime Minister Ewa Kopacz said Comey's words were "unacceptable" in Poland.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/02358b02fe6e404b8c24a9cbd66a9ad0/poland-summons-us-envoy-over-fbi-heads-holocaust-comments

[PatrickforO]

1. Everyone who was alive then, knew or suspected what was happening,

and did nothing is an accomplice. One of my all time favorite movies is Schindler's List, and you can remember in that movie that at the end of the war the Schindler Jews, now free, were walking down the road. They met a Soviet officer riding a donkey, who declared that they were officially free.

"Where should we go," the Jews asked.

"Not that way," said the officer, indicating they should not go east, toward Poland. "They hate you there."

I guess what I get out of this is that anytime we despise, or look down on, or mistrust, or even hate someone or some group who is different than we are, then we ultimately are accomplices in humanity's inhumanity to humans.

Geez, that sounds clumsy. I was trying not to be sexist, but the old expression is 'man's inhumanity to man.' I think this is what the LGBT community means when it says we need to get beyond mere 'tolerance' and into acceptance.

But, as Merlin tells Arthur's knights in the movie Excalibur, "It is the doom of men that they forget." Unfortunately, we have allowed ourselves to forget the holocaust, and that forgetfulness has manifested itself in our moral inaction in the face of dozens of subsequent genocides.

In that sense, we are ALL accomplices, because look at the way America is now, an oligarchical police state; not a functioning democracy. Like it or not, we ALL have had a part in that, some less than others, but none of our hands are clean, because we have allowed the perpetuation of a culture that elevates the needs and wants of the individual above the common good; that elevates profits over people, and that says that some lives are more important than others because they are economically powerful, or they are white, or they cleave to a certain religion.

Sorry, but this guy doesn't get an apology, at least in my mind. Nor should any of us.

[jwirr]

7. I think many have done more than forget the Holocaust. I think many are denying it. To our own

peril.

[Whoopdedoo]

2. Seems like Poland's Foreign Ministry doth protest too much

Anyone remotely familiar with the history of the Holocaust knows that there were many Polish citizens complicit. It's just a shameful fact and I believe the Ministry should put a cork in that anger.
I won't go into any detail here but the truth cannot be denied.

[pnwmom]

4. And many non-Jewish Polish citizens were victims. They weren't comparable to non-Jewish German citizens,

who weren't at risk.

[whistler162]

34. Had a neighbor.

Her husband was captured by the Russians and made it out of Russia to join the Polish Corps and fight at Monte Cassino. She and her eldest children spent the war in Auschwitz.

[CreekDog]

15. did everybody forget that Germany invaded Poland?

or do you just want us to forget that fact?

[sarisataka]

19. Apparently Poland is no longer

the first country to fight a German invasion but a willing ally. I have to update my history books

I put forth that Poland had the least collaboration and more resistance of any invaded country. I won't go into any detail here but the truth cannot be denied.

[pnwmom]

3. About three million non-Jewish Poles died during WW2, in addition to three million

Jewish citizens of Poland, and many non-Jewish Poles died in concentration camps, including Auschwitz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_Poland

The official Polish government report on war damages prepared in 1947 put Poland's war dead at 6,028,000; 3.0 million ethnic Poles and 3.0 million Jews not including losses of Polish citizens from the Ukrainian and Belarusian ethnic groups.

SNIP

Murdered in Prisons or Camps, and in mass executions

During the occupation many Non-Jewish ethnic Poles were killed in mass executions, including an estimated 37,000 Poles[24] at the Pawiak prison complex run by the Gestapo. Polish researchers of the Institute of National Remembrance have estimate about roughly 800,000 ethnic Polish victims during the German occupation including 400,000 in prisons, 148,000 killed in executions and 240,000 deaths among those deported to concentration camps,[25] including 70-75,000[26] at Auschwitz. During the occupation, communities were held collectively responsible for Polish attacks against German troops and mass executions were conducted in reprisal.[27][28] Many mass executions took place outside prisons and camps such as the Mass murders in Piaśnica. Psychiatric patients were executed in Action T4. Farmers were murdered during pacifications of villages.

[atreides1]

8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawiak

Following the German invasion of Poland in 1939 it was turned into a German Gestapo prison, and then part of the Warsaw concentration camp. Approximately 100,000 men and 200,000 women passed through the prison, mostly members of the Armia Krajowa, political prisoners and civilians taken as hostages in street round-ups. An estimated 37,000 were executed and 60,000 sent to German death and concentration camps. Exact numbers are unknown, as the prison's archives have never been found.

[Little Tich]

5. There have been attempts in eastern Europe for years

to try to shift the responsibility for the Holocaust to the German Nazis, as if the countries that were invaded didn't cooperate or participate in the killings in any way.

It's very inconvenient when someone dares to tell the truth – especially if it's from a reputable source that can't be easily silenced. Polish anti-Semitism is still alive, and there is a general consensus that the Jews of Poland never were Polish and therefore, their deaths don't count.

[atreides1]

9. True

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/15/sport/football/poland-football-anti-semitism/index.html

[Little Tich]

11. I have used the “Boys will be boys” defence

in relation to some Bosnian hooligans chanting “kill the Jews!”
Read it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/113499396

It's very possible that my argumentation wasn't a very good one, in spite of the circumstances where it was made.

Maybe, just maybe, I was wrong...

[sulphurdunn]

13. Any invaded nation has collaborators.

It also has a resistance movement. The majority of people just keep their heads down and hope to survive. Countries occupied in WWII were no different. In Poland, half the victims of the Nazi occupation were gentiles. As for this statement: "Polish anti-Semitism is still alive, and there is a general consensus that the Jews of Poland never were Polish and therefore, their deaths don't count." You need to back that up with some credible citations.

[glinda]

21. My grandmother came from a suburb outside Krakow near Auschwitz.

She was 5 years old and came with her brother. Things were happening prior to the Invasion that scared many people there. Tensions were rising also.
I lived and worked with her full time. My grandmother told me in polish, when I was a child, many times....she would repeat this...."We opened our doors to the Jews as they needed work and food and when they were able to start businesses, they would only hire their own and forgot about the Poles".
I do believe without a doubt there were some that were angry and unhappy about feeling that they were somehow "treated with disrespect for all of the help given". I also believe many cared a great deal for others.
I saw my grandmother as a "fractured" emotionally human. She would give the shirt off her back to help the homeless to eat yet would curse that many Poles and others died in camps.

[sulphurdunn]

35. Your observaations

make clear why black and white generalizations about such things are not useful and easily misleading.

[CreekDog]

16. WTF? You said "shift the blame to the German Nazis"???

Are you mad?

That is where the greatest responsibility has been and deservedly so.

[sarisataka]

17. If not blaming Nazis

Who the hell should we blame?
"Poor Nazis getting blamed for the Holocaust when it was the ccollaborator's fault"

Also the focus on "eastern Europe" and anti-Semitism, ignoring the wide spread western European collaboration and anti-Semitism (which also continues to the present)

One of the most sickening posts I've seen in a while.

[pnwmom]

20. Are you saying that the deaths of 3 million non-Jewish Polish people don't count?

Poland lost 6 million people during the war, about half of them Jewish.

[840high]

22. WTF

[840high]

23. Your post angered and saddened me

so much - I have to tell you your post is insane.

[BeanMusical]

27. WTF?

[Little Tich]

28. This is getting tedious...

'Aftermath' Dares to Unearth Terrible Secrets of Poland's Lost Jews
(from www.hollywoodreporter.com)

On July 10, 1941, half the residents of Jedwabne, a Polish village 85 miles northeast of Warsaw, murdered the other half. The mob, led by the mayor, were Catholics; their 1,600 victims were Jewish, slaughtered over several nightmarish hours with bats, knives, rifles and other improvised weapons. Those who survived the massacre were then rounded up in a barn donated by a local farmer, which was then set ablaze. A plaque erected at the site blamed Nazis for the massacre, but, in fact, Nazis had only authorized it. Locals walked by the plaque for half a century, knowing the truth, but saying nothing.

Jedwabne's terrible secrets were at last laid bare in Neighbors, an explosive account of the massacre by Princeton University historian Jan T. Gross. That 2001 book shattered carefully held myths, promulgated by Communist leaders, that Poles were only victims of World War II, not perpetrators. (Poles -- who unlike many European countries never officially collaborated with the Nazis -- lost close to 6 million citizens to the Nazis, or about 17 percent of the population. Just over half of those were Jewish.) Now, 12 years later, comes Aftermath -- premiering stateside Nov. 1.

Read more: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/aftermath-dares-unearth-terrible-secrets-651230

[BeanMusical]

29. This is what you said:

"There have been attempts in eastern Europe for years to try to shift the responsibility for the Holocaust to the German Nazis."

[Little Tich]

31. In connection with the OP, it should be quite clear that

I'm not saying that Poland or other countries in Eastern Europe are wholly responsible for the Holocaust. I'm referring to the idea that's very common in those countries, which is that the German Nazis were the only ones responsible. Poland has a dirty history it ought to confess to, but it doesn't.

It's the same thing with Ukraine and the Baltic States as well. The reason I single out Eastern Europe, is because it was part of the Soviet bloc, and The Soviet Union suppressed all attempts to reconcile with the past. Austria, for example hasn't dealt with its Nazi past either, but their problem is minor in comparison.

Lastly, who is responsible for the Holocaust? I think the answer is quite simple: Those who did it of course. Only those Poles who clubbed their Jewish neighbours to death are guilty, and no other Pole should be considered responsible.

[whereisjustice]

6. Goddamn the Justice Department- WTF is wrong with these people - do they watch Fox News on their

asses all day?

All the racist shit going on - entire towns farming blacks and minorities like cash crops, and this asshole is apologizing for deathc camps and torture like this?

I swear to god, that when Obama gave Bush and Cheney a walk and called torture an act of patriotism, I said it would change the way we view these horrible crimes.

Now we see another example of this shit.

And don't forget - spying on your neighbor is the best way to stay safe. You know, because patriotism and all that.

[heaven05]

10. right

[LeftishBrit]

12. Well, SOME were

There were Poles who risked their own lives to help Jews ; but there were certainly also people who assisted Nazis and/or perpetrated pogroms.

Anti-Semitism was not uncommon in Poland, and was whipped up by the Nazis.

To this day, Poland is not the greatest place to live if you're Jewish, or a member of any ethnic minority.

[Jesus Malverde]

30. Some disagree - Poland is the safest place in Europe for Jews today

I believe that Poland, once again, could become a beacon for West European Jews wanting to start over in a safe family environment but not to abandon Europe. Poland could even serve as a haven and headquarters country for European Jewish business elites whose interests are global. Some reasons are the hospitality of the Polish people, despite residual prejudices kept alive by a slow-to-reform Catholic Church; the openness of the Polish economy to Jewish entrepreneurship; and Poland’s receptivity to Jewish culture, as reflected in the concept enunciated by Polish intellectuals and journalists of the phantom limb. The once-thriving but now near-extinguished population has been compared to the missing limb of an amputee that no longer exists but still has feeling. Many intellectuals and students paraphrase the greatest Polish poet Adam Mickiewicz, who may himself have had Jewish roots — Jew, “you are like health, cherished only once it had been lost.”

But there is another reason. Let us be candid — Anti-Jewish Islamization hasn’t happened and isn’t expected to happen during the next half-century the way it has in Western Europe and may even happen in America. It is also reassuring to know that Poland’s neighbor to the west, the most powerful country in Europe, is its ally and the ally of Jews and Israel. For generations now, Germany has taken upon itself the task to oppose anti-Semitism in Germany and beyond and has staunchly supported Israel and its right to exist. Germany has been a refuge for hundreds of thousands of Eastern European Jews, has encouraged further growth of its Jewish population and would have great allure were it not for its large and growing Muslim population that is not immune to radicalization. All of this creates a new Polish “window of opportunity.”

Among other benefits to Poland, the returning Jews would bring with them their experience of teaching at the highest level of academia and further enhance the Polish institutions of highest learning. (It is worth noting that about a third of the members of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences are Jews.) Their knowledge of economics, international trade and business in general would help turn Warsaw into a major European financial center. Jews have a highly developed sense of responsibility for the community at large; an example of which would be Leopold Kronenberg’s construction in 1875 of the Warsaw Business School and later the Warsaw Philharmonic Hall, for which he was the initiator and one of the main benefactors. The presence of a significant Jewish community would no doubt spur the creation of hospitals, schools, museums, theaters and music venues, as has been done in other parts of the world.

Once again, history repeats itself. Centuries ago, Jewish folklorists, feeling secure in Poland, played creatively if inaccurately on the etymology of the word “Poland.” They argued that it derived from the Hebrew word “polin,” meaning “here find a haven.” One Jewish folktale related that when Jews first came to Poland, they found a wood, the forest of Kawęczyn, in which on every tree one tractate of the Talmud was carved.

Maybe the time has come to dust off the bark of those trees.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/article/poland_is_the_safest_place_in_europe_for_jews_today

[SoapBox]

14. Rewriting history, through "righteous indignation".

It's tried time and time again...but, facts don't lie and those that want history changed need to be firmly shouted down.

[sarisataka]

18. And they should get

A very humble apology.

To lump the Poles in with Germany- who started the war by invading Poland, and Hungary- a willing and active German ally, is beyond insulting and victim-blaming of the worst sort.

The statement shows Mr. Comey is extremely ignorant of WW 2 history. He is apparently unaware of SS-Wikingdivision and the thousands of volunteers from western European countries and the Soviet Union who joined the SS in combat and the Holocaust. Poland stands out as the only occupied country (and several neutral countries) that did not have anyone join the SS.

The United States had more volunteers join the SS than Poland.

"Unacceptable" is a very polite reply from PM Kopacz.

[Diclotican]

24. sarisataka

sarisataka

One of the reasons it never was any from Poland who volunteered for Waffen SS, was because germans looked down at poles, as "not worthy" and at best should be kept as house-slaves - at worst, killed off... And if the war had ended different from what it did - with Germany as the winner - I'm not sure if it would have been any poles in Poland anymore - of for that matter - any Poland to begin with....

Diocletian

[HeiressofBickworth]

25. IMHO

In the OP: "In their minds, the murderers and accomplices of Germany, and Poland, and Hungary, and so many, many other places didn't do something evil."

In believe this to be the case. Every person who occupied homes or apartments, or farmed land, or operated businesses, received watches, jewelry, furs, other personal items taken from the Jews, all were participants in the Holocaust. There were rewards for NOT opposing the extermination of Jews. And for most, not opposing the Nazis was also self-preservation.

So, the quote was right -- people convinced themselves that they did nothing wrong. I see no need to apologize for the comment.

[John1956PA]

26. Lesley Stahl touched off a similar firestorm with a sentence in her 1999 book.

In her 1999 book, Reporting Live, Lesley Stahl wrote, "The Poles (with help from their friendly neighborhood Germans) had killed off their tradesmen, the Jews, in the 1940's."

She was rightfully taken to task over that accusation.

[El Shaman]

32. USA anyone?

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

[father founding]

33. WTF ?

Someone is trying to divert whats happening in Palastine by dredging up the past.