Cruz On Garland: We Must Choose Between Free Speech And Political Correctness
Source: TPM
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) on Saturday weighed in on the shooting at a Muhammad cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, while discussing how President Obama is "unwilling" to used the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism."
"We saw the ugly face of islamic terrorism in my home state of Texas in Garland, where two jihadists came to commit murder. Thankfully one police officer helped them meet their virgins," Cruz said. "But when given the choice between free speech and the political correctness of refusing to acknowledge radical Islamic terrorism, it is a time for choosing where we stand," he continued.
Two gunmen were killed last weekend when they opened fire on officers outside of the Muhammad cartoon contest organized by anti-Muslim activist Pam Geller.
Earlier in his speech, Cruz mentioned the religious freedom bills in Arkansas and Indiana, which were both modified after businesses expressed concern that the bills would permit discrimination against gays and lesbians. Cruz praised both states for standing up "to defend religious liberty."
-snip-
Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ted-cruz-garland-free-speech
brewens
(13,557 posts)Destrying some Christian holy site, killing more Christians, maybe blowing up a church? I doubt it will be here but they can hit all over the world.
So they smoked out a couple of crazies. No one else got hurt this time. We can't keep rattling their cages thinking they will just have to eat shit and get over it. They don't react well to that.
christx30
(6,241 posts)Christians over there. How could things get any worse than the psychos in ISIL beheading people and selling people into slavery?
brewens
(13,557 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)retaliation, it puts them in charge, doesn't it? It gives a strong incentive for violent acts to get us to bend to their will.
We need to show that we don't respond to violence of threats. If these two guys had organized a protest across the street and called for dialog, they would have had their grievences heard. And then had dinner with their families. Instead, they are now dead. And no one has to care what they have to say ever again.
brewens
(13,557 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)and that peaceful interaction with us is the only way they are going to be able to make any change.
Otherwise, what's to stop other groups from using violence to demand people respect their religion? "John and Tim, you can't get married. It'll piss off the christians and they'll start shooting."
Dialog and tolerance are a two way street.
brewens
(13,557 posts)the administration dropped the ball on 9/11.
msongs
(67,381 posts)LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,577 posts)If "free speech" trumps "political correctness," then I vote for "Cruz, you're a Canada-born, Castro-loving goofy-looking loser."
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)behind that line of thinking. Who knows how far it could go? "Well, they get offended if we are members of other religions, or no religions. We should..."
If you want to refrain from drawing the cartoons out of respect for reasonable people, that's fine. But if you're just doing it out of fear of future violence, that'll just embolden the crazies out there.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You said as much while you were celebrating Fateh al-Sisi's massacres of his opposition and beating and jailing of clerics and the press. After all, mass violence is the only way to "stop the mullahs," innit?
Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to christianity. That'll sort it right out.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)You can't stop attributing words to me can you?
I do support Fateh al-Sisi's establishment of law and order in Egypt because MB was simply too incompetent to govern and was creating chaos with mass murder of the Coptics and destruction of a lot of precious relics.
I actually do believe that stopping radical mullahs preaching 11th century Islam is away to reduce terrorism and bring Islam into the 21st century for the benefit of its followers.
I am not even a Christian so not my words that you claim stated "convert them to Christianity"
I admire Fateh al-Sisi more now since he is preaching reforming Islam and taking out stupid violence out of the Q'uraan. Do you think that violence is sacrosanct and shouldn't be taken out?
Fateh al-Sisi is a modern day Kemal Ataturk. They will have highways and airports named after him. Morsi? He will be forgotten.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And Pinochet established law and order in Chile, ending the incompetent and chaotic reign of Allende, correct? I mean so what if several thousand peopel were butchered by the incoming junta, they were all "terrorists" and "communist agents" and had it coming!
Right?
Killing them doesn't actually fix the problem. mass murder doesn't generally make people less radical, as much as you enjoy killing them and using that excuse.
No, it's a quote from Ann Coulter, because I don't see any significant differences between your position and hers on this subject.
I'm not the one cheerleading for a guy who slaughtered six thousand of his people in a violent coup, then sentenced another thousand to death in absentia via military courts for having opposition positions to the coup.
Kemal Ataturk was a butcher too, a gross violator of human rights - not just of Turkish muslims but also of Armenians. Great guy for you to admire there cosmicone.
And yes, i'm sure lots of thigns will be named after al-Sisi, while Morsi will be scrubbed from history. it's amazing what you can do when you get 98.9% of the vote in an "election' following your military coup and mass murder of opposition.
Just ask Saddam Hussein, another secular bringer of Nixonian "law and order" that you likely admire.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)the fact is that MB had become violent and was out of control.... al Sisi did what he had to do to bring peace and stability. Doesn't mean everything he did was either necessary or justified but the results speakfor themselves.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)They were far more radical and an off-brand sect that fought bloody campaigns for Saudi Arabia, capturing the holy sights which they actually bulldoze over. Jerusalem has been captured recaptured numerous times and has sustained damage but have more surviving holy sights than Mecca or Medina which the Century of Islam is further back than Muhammad's era
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina
Wahhabism (Arabic: وهابية, Wahhābiya(h)) or Wahhabi mission[1] (/wəˈhɑːbi, wɑː-/;[2] Arabic: ألدعوة ألوهابية, ad-Da'wa al-Wahhābiya(h) ) is a religious movement or branch of Sunni Islam.[3][4][5][6] It has been variously described as "orthodox", "ultraconservative",[7] "austere",[3] "fundamentalist",[8] "puritanical"[9] (or "puritan" ;[10] as an Islamic "reform movement" to restore "pure monotheistic worship" (tawhid), by scholars and advocates[11] and as an "extremist pseudo-Sunni movement" by opponents.[12] Adherents often object to the term Wahhabi or Wahhabism as derogatory, and prefer to be called Salafi or muwahhid.[13][14][15]
Wahhabism is named after an eighteenth century preacher and scholar, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (17031792).[16] He started a revivalist movement in the remote, sparsely populated region of Najd,[17] advocating a purging of practices such as the popular "cult of saints", and shrine and tomb visitation, widespread among Muslims, but which he considered idolatry, impurities and innovations in Islam.[5][18] Eventually he formed a pact with a local leader Muhammad bin Saud offering political obedience and promising that protection and propagation of the Wahhabi movement would mean "power and glory" and rule of "lands and men."[19] The movement is centered on the principle of tawhid,[20] or the "uniqueness" and "unity" of God.[18]
The alliance between followers of ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Muhammad bin Saud's successors (the House of Saud) proved to be a rather durable alliance. The house of bin Saud continued to maintain its politico-religious alliance with the Wahhabi sect through the waxing and waning of its own political fortunes over the next 150 years, through to its eventual proclamation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in 1932, and then afterwards, on into modern times. Today Mohammed bin Abd Al-Wahhab's teachings are state-sponsored and are the official form of Sunni Islam[3][21] in 21st century Saudi Arabia.[22]
Estimates of the number of adherents to Wahhabism vary, with one source (Michael Izady) giving a figure of fewer than 5 million Wahhabis in the Persian Gulf region (compared to 28.5 million Sunnis and 89 million Shia).[22][23]
With the help of funding from petroleum exports[24] (and other factors[25]), the movement underwent "explosive growth" beginning in the 1970s and now has worldwide influence.[3] The movement is centered on the principle of Tawhid,[20] or the "uniqueness" and "unity" of God.[18] The movement also draws from the teachings of medieval theologian Ibn Taymiyyah and early jurist Ahmad ibn Hanbal.[26]
Wahhabism has been accused of being "a source of global terrorism",[27][28] and for causing disunity in the Muslim community by labeling Muslims who disagreed with the Wahhabi definition of monotheism as apostates[29] (takfir), thus paving the way for their bloodshed.[30][31][32] It has also been criticized for the destruction of historic mazaars, mausoleums, and other Muslim and non-Muslim buildings and artifacts.[33][34][35] The "boundaries" of what make up Wahhabism have been called "difficult to pinpoint",[36] but in contemporary usage, the terms Wahhabi and Salafi are often used interchangeably, and considered to be movements with different roots that have merged since the 1960s.[37][38][39] But Wahhabism has also been called "a particular orientation within Salafism",[5] or an ultra-conservative, Saudi brand of Salafism.[40][41]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism
Bringing Islam to the 21st Century -- a faith with 1.5 billion followers
Connection with the outside
Before Abdul-Aziz, during most of the second half of the 19th century, there was a strong aversion in Wahhabi lands to mixing with "idolaters" (which included most of the Muslim world). Voluntary contact was considered by Wahhabi clerics to be at least a sin, and if one enjoyed the company of idolaters, and "approved of their religion", an act of unbelief.[126] Travel outside the pale of Najd to the Ottoman lands "was tightly controlled, if not prohibited altogether".[127]
Over the course of its history, however, Wahhabism has become more accommodating towards the outside world.[128] In the late 1800s, Wahhabis found Muslims with at least similar beliefsfirst with Ahl-i Hadith in India,[129] and later with Islamic revivalists in Arab states (one being Mahmud Sahiri al-Alusi in Baghdad).[130] The revivalists and Wahhabis shared a common interest in Ibn Taymiyya's thought, the permissibility of ijtihad, and the need to purify worship practices of innovation.[131] In the 1920s, Rashid Rida, a pioneer Salafist whose periodical al-Manar was widely read in the Muslim world, published an "anthology of Wahhabi treatises," and a work praising the Ibn Saud as "the savior of the Haramayn [the two holy cities] and a practitioner of authentic Islamic rule".[132][133]
In a bid "to join the Muslim mainstream and to erase the reputation of extreme sectarianism associated with the Ikhwan," in 1926 Ibn Saud convened a Muslim congress of representatives of Muslim governments and popular associations.[134] By the early 1950s, the "pressures" on Ibn Saud of controlling the regions of Hejaz and al-Hasa"outside the Wahhabi heartland"and of "navigating the currents of regional politics" "punctured the seal" between the Wahhabi heartland and the "land of idolatry" outside.[135][136]
A major current in regional politics at that time was secular nationalism, which, with Gamal Abdul Nasser, was sweeping the Arab world. To combat it, Wahhabi missionary outreach worked closely with Saudi foreign policy initiatives. In May 1962, a conference in Mecca organized by Saudis discussed ways to combat secularism and socialism. In its wake, the World Muslim League was established.[137] To propagate Islam and "repel inimical trends and dogmas", the League opened branch offices around the globe.[52] It developed closer association between Wahhabis and leading Salafis, and made common cause with the Islamic revivalist Muslim Brotherhood, Ahl al-Hadith and the Jamaat-i Islami, combating Sufism and "innovative" popular religious practices[137] and rejecting the West and Western "ways which were so deleterious of Muslim piety and values."[138] Missionaries were sent to West Africa, where the League funded schools, distributed religious literature, and gave scholarships to attend Saudi religious universities. One result was the Izala Society which fought Sufism in Nigeria, Chad, Niger, and Cameroon.[139]
An event that had a great effect on Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia[140] was the "infiltration of the transnationalist revival movement" in the form of thousands of pious, Islamist Arab Muslim Brotherhood refugees from Egypt following Nasser's clampdown on the brotherhood[141] (and also from similar nationalist clampdowns in Iraq[142] and Syria[143]), to help staff the new school system of (the largely illiterate) Kingdom.[144]
The Brotherhood's Islamist ideology differed from the more conservative Wahhabism which preached loyal obedience to the king. The Brotherhood dealt in what one author (Robert Lacey) called "change-promoting concepts" like social justice, and anticolonialism, and gave "a radical, but still apparently safe, religious twist" to the Wahhabi values Saudi students "had absorbed in childhood". With the Brotherhood's "hands-on, radical Islam", jihad became a "practical possibility today", not just part of history.[145]
The Brethren were ordered by the Saudi clergy and government not to attempt to proselytize or otherwise get involved in religious doctrinal matters within the Kingdom, but nonetheless "took control" of Saudi Arabia's intellectual life" by publishing books and participating in discussion circles and salons held by princes.[146] In time they took leading roles in key governmental ministries,[147] and had influence on education curriculum.[148] An Islamic university in Medina created in 1961 to trainmostly non-Saudiproselytizers to Wahhabism, [149] became "a haven" for Muslim Brother refugees from Egypt.[150] The Brothers' ideas eventually spread throughout the kingdom and had great effect on Wahhabismalthough observers differ as to whether this was by "undermining" it[140][151] or "blending" with it.[152][153]
Growth
In the 1950s and 60s within Saudi Arabia, the Wahhabi ulama maintained their hold on religious law courts, presided over the creation of Islamic universities, and a public school system which gave students "a heavy dose of religious instruction".[154] Outside of Saudi the Wahhabi ulama became "less combative" toward the rest of the Muslim world. In confronting the challenge of the West, Wahhabi doctrine "served well" for many Muslims as a "platform" and "gained converts beyond the peninsula."[154][155]
A number of reasons have been given for this success. The growth in popularity and strength of both Arab nationalism (although Wahhabis opposed any form of nationalism as an ideology, Saudis were Arabs, and their enemy the Ottoman caliphate was ethnically Turkish),[25] and Islamic reform (specifically reform by following the example of those first three generations of Muslims known as the Salaf);[25] the destruction of the Ottoman Empire which sponsored their most effective critics;[156] the destruction of another rival, the Khilafa in Hejaz, in 1925.[25] Not least in importance was the money Saudi Arabia earned from exporting oil.[76]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Muhammad_ibn_Abd-al-Wahhab
International influence and propagation
Explanation for influence
Khaled Abou El Fadl attributed the appeal of Wahhabism to some Muslims as stemming from
Arab nationalism, which followed the Wahhabi attack on the Ottoman Empire
Reformism, which followed a return to Salaf (as-Salaf aṣ-Ṣāliḥ
Destruction of the Hejaz Khilafa in 1925;
Control of Mecca and Medina, which gave Wahhabis great influence on Muslim culture and thinking;
Oil, which after 1975 allowed Wahhabis to promote their interpretations of Islam using billions from oil export revenue.[298]
Scholar Gilles Kepel, agrees that the tripling in the price of oil in the mid-1970s and the progressive takeover of Saudi Aramco in the 19741980 period, provided the source of much influence of Wahhabism in the Islamic World.
... the financial clout of Saudi Arabia had been amply demonstrated during the oil embargo against the United States, following the Arab-Israeli war of 1973. This show of international power, along with the nation's astronomical increase in wealth, allowed Saudi Arabia's puritanical, conservative Wahhabite faction to attain a preeminent position of strength in the global expression of Islam. Saudi Arabia's impact on Muslims throughout the world was less visible than that of Khomeini's Iran, but the effect was deeper and more enduring. .... it reorganized the religious landscape by promoting those associations and ulemas who followed its lead, and then, by injecting substantial amounts of money into Islamic interests of all sorts, it won over many more converts. Above all, the Saudis raised a new standard -- the virtuous Islamic civilization -- as foil for the corrupting influence of the West.[76]
----------------------------
To stop the spread of terrorism you start with the regime that owns Mecca & Medina. Stupid violence in the Quran? How do you explain his own violence?
During the August 2013 Egyptian raids, the Egyptian military under el-Sisi's command joined the national police in removing camps of Muslim Brotherhood supporters from sit-ins being held in Rabiaa and el-Nahda. This action resulted in rapidly escalating violence that eventually led to deaths of 638 people, of whom 595 were civilians and 43 police officers, with at least 3,994 injured in addition to several incidents in various cities including Minya and Kerdasa. Some liberal activists who had supported the ousting of Morsi publicly voiced their concerns: "I'm not happy when they use violence. And I'm worried about them using it again," said Gamal Eid, a well-known human rights activist.[36][37][38]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdel_Fattah_el-Sisi
Arab World
Al-Jazeera reported in June 2014: "Saudi Arabia, the world's top oil exporter, and its wealthy Gulf Arab partners Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates have given more than $20bn to help Egypt since Morsi's overthrow, Sisi said last month, and are likely to pledge more."[111]
I see some very twisted logic when Islam comes up as if the actions of non-Muslims are somehow different. Wars fought over oil & for the financial interests of defense contractors bombing, killing, and maiming in favor of the oppressors who own the countries wealth with energy companies drilling through the human rights of the population. The US has historically opposed socialists or governments who simply nationalized oil production. The massacres in Mali & CAR are by Buddhists & Christians. Rwanda was predominantly Roman Catholics. Most Muslims live in Asia & Africa (many were brought here on slave ships with their religion suppressed). Somehow they are on the bridge to the 21st century because of brutal oppressors who actual create the environment that benefit their recruiting drives. Then there are polls showing American Muslims say civilians deaths are never justified with Athiests/agnostics polling second (they both also are least trusted by the American public) -- I could add more but I'll add 7 Muslim Majority countries have had a female head of state something the US hasn't done yet.
Snow Leopard
(348 posts)Screw them
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)I don't think he gives a damn about the common citizen in Texas but he leaves his mark in nasty ways. Making his remarks appeals to the bigots and the same bigots votes for him. I almost feel like he is very proud of the killings both it could have gone another way also.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)"quip"? Making fun of their religion adds to the baiting and is certainly not a statesman like remark.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)As GWBush said as he smirked & wave his hand: " The Constition, its just a piece of paper."
The Bush family has had their eyes on the prize since their arrival in this country & since their move throughout positions of power, to manipulate an outcome for themselves.
The criminal & cronie lineage extends generations.
Cruz & his ilk would like nothing more than to rewrite the laws of this country.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Fortinbras Armstrong
(4,473 posts)I don't believe that any American politician, even one as stupid and arrogant as Bush, would say something like that.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)because to beat radical islam we have to use radicals. if we use such terms we lose. So Ted Cruz works for the radicals
Coventina
(27,083 posts)Oppression by Muslims = bad
Oppression by Christians = good
How about we just say all religious oppression is bad?
Oh yeah, that's "political correctness".
allan01
(1,950 posts)ck4829
(35,041 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)That orgy of political correctness was OK with him.
carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)Christian, atheist, or whatever, I don't care. The Muslim community of the DFW area totally resisted the provocation from Geller and co., yet a couple of assholes from Arizona are being used to justify the stereotyping and scapegoating of Muslims everywhere.
Successfully indeed, judging by what I've seen here. Back in the late 80s when I expressed some enthusiasm about the downfall of communism and the end of the Cold War, a cynical friend said "no, it will just revert to Christians vs. Muslims dragging the rest of us into their nightmare." On 9/11 I knew he was right about where Republicans wanted us to go, but hoped that Democrats would resist the groupthink manipulation to which we were being subjected.
Not sure anymore that there is any hope of avoiding a global apocalypse caused by Christian/Muslim tensions and the useful idiots who allow themselves to be manipulated by hatemongers like Geller and Cruz.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)point is neither of these are free speech...they are more likely designed to elicit a response positive or negative. The fact that they were warned in advance means they didn't give a rats ass..they knew there would be problems.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/piss-christ/
christx30
(6,241 posts)Piss Christ. No one rioted. There weren't bombings or shootings. No change in national security priorites.
There were protests. One person destroyed the artwork, and they were arrested.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)and am always baffled by the free speech causes which no doubt they should have but don't like the free speech of others giving their views on the offensive hate rallies and what about Muslims free speech? Oh don't want to be caught doing that instead advise paranoia that they are plotting to kill Christians.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)held in Tehran recently. I oppose both to the same degree and for the same reason: Both promoted hate-speech, and both were trying to promote racism. I think hate speech shouldn't be included in free speech, like in the EU. There is a world of difference between Charlie Hebdo and Pamela Geller.
christx30
(6,241 posts)Pamela Geller? And who gets to make the distinction, from a legal standpoint?
I'd rather allow the free speech, as long as it's not threatening. Allow anyone to respond to that free speech with rational debate. Punish any violent response to that free speech harshly.
Would you ban flag burning to protest a war? A person might see that as hate speech.
truthisfreedom
(23,141 posts)He's strongly pandering to a very limited base.