Amtrak train crashes in Philadelphia, wreckage 'pretty bad'
Source: KWWL.com and AP
PHILADELPHIA (AP) - An Amtrak train headed to New York City crashed in Philadelphia on Tuesday night, and several people appeared to be injured.
Train 188, a Northeast Regional, had left Washington, D.C., earlier Tuesday. The front of the train was going into a turn when it shook.
An Associated Press employee, Paul Cheung, was on the train and said it appeared it went off the tracks. He said he was fortunate to be at the back of the train and the front of it "looks pretty bad."
Police swarming the Port Richmond area where the crash occurred are telling people to get back.
Former Congressman Patrick Murphy was on the train and said he has been helping people. He tweeted photos of firefighters helping people in the wreckage.
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Read more: http://www.kwwl.com/story/29048453/amtrak-train-from-washington-crashes-in-philadelphia
Seeing aerial shots of the scene on MSNBC and CNN - it looks pretty bad...
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Rhiannon12866
(204,794 posts)wordpix
(18,652 posts)I travel this route regularly and am just as often freaked out by the old creaky infrastructure. Bridges, rails, sight lines, drainage, etc. appear to have not been renovated/revamped for many decades. I have rarely seen workers improving the corridor's infrastructure---maybe once. And I've traveled the route for decades.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...but we should wait for the details in order to fully examine the causes of the wreck.
Rhiannon12866
(204,794 posts)Something horrifically tragic like this happens, and it's in the headlines for a few days or weeks, and the talk is all about our crumbling/outmoded infrastructure and how we immediately need to address it. But then the headlines fade and we move on to other concerns, and the danger out there is eventually forgotten.
In my neck of the woods, the Schoharie Bridge collapsed, cars fell into the swollen spring waters and ten people were killed. Two of them were distant relatives of mine, a mother and daughter on their way to another daughter's baby shower. And three men in another car actually worked with my father, coworkers on their way home from a company sponsored bowling tournament.
But that was in 1987 and the bridge has been replaced, but how many more bridges/overpasses/outmoded structures like that are out there? Meanwhile, kids have grown up without moms and dads, but most people won't think about it until it happens again.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Rhiannon12866
(204,794 posts)And that there was still mass confusion about who was still missing, who had been taken to hospitals and people trying to locate loved ones...
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...as of a few minutes ago
Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)This looks like it will be a major disaster.
MSNBC: "240 passengers. 8-10 cars derailed. Multiple Inuries."
Firefighters told Patrick Murphy 211 passengers.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)about what happened in his car.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)and I-95. This is just awful.
There's a live stream here - http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Amtrak-Derailment-Philadelphia--303536331.html
Heddi
(18,312 posts)I'm about...oh, a couple of miles from the wreck but right on a main road that leads to that area. Have been hearing sirens and helicopters for the last bit
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)The whole area is going to be crazy the rest of the week.
Heddi
(18,312 posts)glad he's not working tonight!
I live in Northern Liberties and it's been sirens for the last 20-30 minutes non stop. Helicopters, etc. So they're life-flighting people out.
On Edit: The TV is saying it's around Aramingo and Wheatsheaf Lane, near where the Walmart is up there.
Apparently the "quiet car" got the worst of it.
They're saying 8-9 cars or more derailed, at least 50 injuries, many more expected
Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)Heddi
(18,312 posts)It's a bit behind the Walmert. Still crazy
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)and know that area over there (I am in Chestnut Hill but used to substitute teach in Port Richmond years ago). There's alot of big box stores there (used to be alot of warehouses years ago).
Heddi
(18,312 posts)just abandoned warehouses and junked cars, no houses or businesses in danger (?)
Heddi
(18,312 posts)same general area, but a bit further away from the box stores
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)there's like a "Y" split of tracks right near Frankford Ave to the west and Wheatsheaf to the east. Biggest streets nearby appear to be Glenwood & Butler. Aramingo would be southeast of that section.
Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)Does Amtrak allow you to buy a ticket on the train? Is it possible people just hopped on?
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)This happened after both (the closer one being North Philadephia)... The tracks are elevated as they go through a very very congested part of the city. Alot of blocks of homes and warehouses and now big box stores where old warehouses used to be. Can't "hop on" there - the train would have been in-motion all the way (unless it had a stop signal - appears to be alot of train track splitoffs right in that area).
elleng
(130,757 posts)No discussion from her, or Patrick Murphy, that there were many serious injuries. Many were NOT injured.
brooklynite
(94,364 posts)Collision appears to have happened on a curve where trains to Atlantic City split off.
Heddi
(18,312 posts)10 people to Temple, the rest to Aria Frankford and Aria Torresdale.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)in what they call the "River Wards" (Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Port Richmond, etc.).
jwirr
(39,215 posts)mph. Rachel just said a gentle curve.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)@RawStory: WATCH LIVE: At least 50 reportedly injured after Amtrak train derails in Philadelphia http://t.co/WsGgoLm8ri/s/JTsr
m.twitter.com/RawStory
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Time for Republicans to cut train investment and infrastructure again.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)Looks like it's not far from the Betsy Ross Bridge.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Heard sirens. See unusual traffic from our windows.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)that the Trenton Line will probably be out the rest of the week. Then he mentioned the Chestnut Hill West being out (which makes no sense as the Chestnut Hill East line is what becomes the Trenton line).
Rhiannon12866
(204,794 posts)Rachel just took over from Lawrence.
trueblue2007
(17,194 posts)https://www.whitehouse.gov/rebuild-america
Over the years, as our transportation spending has gone down, congestion and maintenance backlogs have gone up.
65% of our roads are rated in less than good condition
25% of our bridges require significant repair or can't handle today's traffic
45% of Americans lack access to transit
And we're falling behind our competitors internationally as a result. Let's fix it.
The President's plan would rebuild our roads and bridges in a smarter, more responsible way while supporting millions of jobs will mean:
Providing the certainty that cities, states, and private investors need to break ground on major projects.
Increasing investments by 38 percent over four years to better meet the needs of a growing population.
Reforming our programs to make sure we're prioritizing projects not based on politics but on how much good they'd do.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)we're worrying over the TPP and the rightwing is worrying over taxes and Pentagon cuts.
Let our schools, roads, and infrastructure go to hell while we argue over the "important" things.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)I've come to the conclusion that infrastructure will NEVER be a priority in this country.
brooklynite
(94,364 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)I know some parts of the Amtrak rails are electric and others are diesel (and they share with our Regional Rail).
brooklynite
(94,364 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)The "Frankford Junction Train Wreck"
http://www3.gendisasters.com/pennsylvania/4193/philadelphia,-pa-congressional-limited-train-wrecks,-sep-1943
brooklynite
(94,364 posts)Tom Winter @Tom_Winter 2m2 minutes ago
NBC News' @REspositoNBC reports that a senior source says several fatalities in the crash of Amtrak Train #188 in Philadelphia.
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)I hope those tanker cars are empty!
This is just insane -
Even got the bike cops out there -
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)pretty scary stuff.
The Daily Mail is pretty much visual oriented and quick to get the latest breaking up and on the net. Tabloid ,but it's useful.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)It's going to be something else once we can see it in the light (and people can see what else is surrounding that location).
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)what caused this accident .
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)notably the cable news stations... and perhaps for the next couple days. When a regional rail train in Connecticut derailed a couple years ago on Amtrak tracks, Amtrak service in that area was suspended for at least 4 days. This is worse...
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)What was the cause of the derailment in Conn.?
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)where the train derailed and was able to slow but was then leaning into the opposite track enough for a train coming the other way to sideswipe it almost head-on.
As a side note - I have MSNBC on and Nutter is speaking again and the Governor (Tom Wolf) is with him now.
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)and are there any other known causalities ?
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)-checking cars and trying to determine the whereabouts of any "walk off" passengers. They had set up a staging area at a nearby school for passengers to go who were not quite injured enough to go to the hospital. And I think Amtrak had Septa provide some shuttle buses to move passengers to the staging area. I did hear a report on CNN about possibly 2 more deaths but haven't heard anything else on that (MSNBC is still reporting 5 although they literally just updated the number taken to the hospital to 65).
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)5/ 65 - still searching cars. This is really really bad.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)I expect more will be going to the hospital. The reports were claiming that patients were "in every hospital in the city", although I'm just a couple miles from one and live on a main thoroughfare that seemingly attracts every ambulance known to mankind that blast through the intersections here to get to that hospital... yet it's been almost ghost quiet out there. I am on the opposite side of the city, probably about 7 miles away from the scene.
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)You are right close aren't you ?
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)(sorry - it was after 2 am and had to go to bed ).
I think the mayor indicated that the fire department called for a "4-alarm" (mayor said a total of "33 apparatuses" , so no, nowhere near "most" resources over there. A former co-worker's husband used to work for the fire department and I think she said there are usually "8 pieces of equipment" per alarm (including engines, squirts, ladder trucks, EMT). For example, not that far from there, there was an 8-alarm "tire fire" under I95 about 20 years ago that had 32 engines alone on the scene (and there would also be ladder trucks, squirt trucks, water cannon trucks, and medic units, etc.). I think there is one engine per station and the city has 61 fire stations, so this would have been about 1/2 that tire fire situation. Did not hear even the usual police car whoop whooping it down the street.
I'm about 7 miles from there, on the opposite side of the city.
Edit to add a map - I am in NW Philly and this map shows the river area (the section that says "Kensington", "Bridesburg", etc, whre Port Richmond is)-
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)bad, but not horribly bad.
Just pretty bad.
brooklynite
(94,364 posts)brooklynite
(94,364 posts)brooklynite
(94,364 posts)brooklynite
(94,364 posts)per Mayor Nutter
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)And this one wrapped around a pole and its wheels are up in the air -
CNN has someone saying there's an awful lot of damage that couldn't just be from the derailment.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)a front car derailed and slammed into a support beam, bending it in half enough for the next car in line to get its sides ripped apart as it got dragged off the rails into the bent support and/or cross-beam now in the way.
I did hear from an earlier report that the engine ended up completely separated from the rest of the cars that it was pulling.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)then that would have done it in.
There was some surveillance video shown on CNN overnight from a nearby warehouse and you could see the very bottom of the train running by the site of the camera at pretty good clip before there was a pause when the train was out of the visual, and then there is a series of bright flashes as the train apparently came off the rails (there were multiple flashes and even a couple sparks/debris evident on the tape).
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,319 posts)Those were from ground faults as the catenary (overhead electrical wiring), energized at 12.0 kilovolts, came down.
Amtrak's 25 Hz traction power system
Had I not been just plain out of cash, I would have attended a meeting about the electrification of the Northeast Corridor at lunch yesterday.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)and yes - definitely the catenary lines... The views were zoomed looking towards an area where apparently you can see one of the train cars overturn, slam the ground, and slide a bit (with the flashes on the other side of it).
One of the passengers (who has been out there giving interviews overnight and today) mentioned something a little different this latest time I heard him - he said that in his car, they felt a strong "bump", and then a 2nd "bump", and then after the 3rd "bump", their car started leaning as the train had started to derail.
And I spent 6 primary school years riding those rails back and forth to school every morning - 2 years going to the end of the line northbound and 4 years going to the end of the line southbound (on "Penn Central" back then right when they were going bankrupt). I could literally tell you where we were based on the "feel" and sounds the train made on the tracks. The engineers would let us kids ride in the cabin with them and they taught us all their little hand signals. High school ended up being 2 SEPTA buses to and from.
Commuting to work was 3 more years on those rails and then I had had enough!
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)RobinA
(9,886 posts)are hollow aluminum tubes. It doesn't take a lot to turn them into a ball of foil. Plus, I believe they are engineered so that to an extent they crunch instead of telescoping, which in the past has caused many horrible amputation injuries and deaths.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)engineering them this way also makes them lighter in weight (perhaps allowing them to be more energy efficient). What was interesting to see from the shots in the daylight, was all the sets of wheel platforms that had broken free from the underside of the cars that derailed... Apparently they are designed to do that.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)says appropriating 1/2 cent/gal from gasoline tax would cure them
Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)
brooklynite This message was self-deleted by its author.
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,319 posts)Last edited Wed May 13, 2015, 01:12 PM - Edit history (4)
Especially to BumRushDaShow for his her (and that's what I get for gender stereotyping) explanation of what emergency responders have with them when they arrive, in post #61.
Some links to previous derailments mentioned in the thread:
Frankford Junction train wreck
Fairfield train crash
I didn't have the TV on last night until just before I went to bed. At the time, there was no talk of fatalities. This morning, there was a picture on page A3 of the Washington Post, showing the bent passenger car. Usually in a derailment, the car's maintain their shape. They might be accordioned all over the place, but they don't bend.
I'm pretty sure those cars are built of stainless steel. The Federal Railroad Administration has crashworthiness standards that have to be met, which is one reason Talgo equipment is having such a hard time gaining a foothold in the US.
Amtrak rolling stock
Someone at Trainorders will weigh in with the serial numbers of the cars involved.
Re: the tank cars seen in posts #39 and #42. Railroad tank cars carry just about any liquid that can be made to flow. I'm looking for other views of them, so that I can determine, through placards, if they were carrying hazardous materials.
I have a meeting to go to. I'll try to get in some more links later.
ETA: links at Trainorders:
Amtrak derailment in Philly
Amtrak Derailment
Same Curve in Philadelphia September 6 1943
This is a bad time for politics. Please, let's think of those injured and killed, and of the emergency responders who must do their jobs amid the carnage.
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)Am hoping this may be a catalyst for some funding to get the rail infrastructure upgraded for Amtrak.... But then other events often overtake the focus on this type of need.
At least PA was finally able to get some dedicated funding for our regional transit system (SEPTA) that also shares rails with Amtrak and Conrail/CSX, so the light and heavy rail portions can get substandard or crumbling train bridges and other infrastructure repaired.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,319 posts)By Ashley Halsey III, Julie Zauzmer and Dana Hedgpeth May 13 at 12:55 PM
@ashleyhalsey3rd
@JulieZauzmer
@postmetrogirl
Federal investigators and other rail experts said Wednesday that they have recovered the data recorder from the wreckage of an Amtrak train that originated in Washington and derailed in Philadelphia, leaving seven people dead, more than 200 hospitalized and shutting down train service along parts of the busy Northeast corridor.
Among those killed was a Naval Academy midshipman. According to family members, Justin Zemser, 20, of Rockaway Beach, N.Y., was on leave and headed home. Another passenger said to be among those killed is Jim Gaines, a video software architect from the Associated Press. Gaines, a 48-year-old father of two, had attended a meeting in Washington and was returning home to Plainsboro, N.J., according to a confirmation from his wife, the AP said.
....
Amtrak made several changes to its popular Northeast regional train service in the wake of the derailment, including canceling service between Philadelphia and New York. Trains between Washington and Philadelphia were running on a modified schedule. Amtrak said the changes could last throughout the week.
Authorities had no immediate comment on what caused the derailment, but trains are equipped with sensitive data recorders akin to the so-called black boxes on aircraft that measure factors such as speed. ... Downloading data from the black box should give investigators clues about horn use, speed or other information that could help them figure out what happened, officials said.
....
Mark Berman, Hamil Harris, Jennifer Jenkins, Michael E. Ruane, Ian Shapira, T. Rees Shapiro, Perry Stein and Susan Svrluga contributed to this report.
Why Amtrak trains derail
72 years ago, a deadly derailment occurred at same Philadelphia spot
brooklynite
(94,364 posts)Seven fatalities have been reported, after a body was found in the wreckage on Wednesday. Area hospitals have treated more than 200. There is not yet a count of the number of people missing or not accounted for. A Naval Academy midshipman and Associated Press staff member are among those killed. The train was en route to New York from Washington with 238 passengers and five crew members aboard.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/live_chats/Live-coverage-Amtrak-crash-.html
BumRushDaShow
(128,521 posts)The speed limit at that spot is 50 mph. IMHO, they probably shouldn't go more than 35 mph.