U.S. to deliver 2,000 anti-tank weapons to Iraq, Pentagon says
Source: Reuters
The Pentagon said on Thursday the United States would deliver 2,000 AT-4 anti-tank rockets to Iraq as early as next week, 1,000 more than announced on Wednesday, to help Baghdad combat suicide car bombings by Islamic State.
Spokesman Colonel Steve Warren said the delivery would help Iraq defend against approaching suicide bombers driving vehicles packed with explosives, attacks used by Islamic State militants last weekend to help them seize Ramadi from Iraqi forces.
"This is a good counter to that (type of bombing)," Warren said.
The Islamic State's capture of Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province, handed the Baghdad government its most significant setback in a year and exposed the limitations of Iraq's army and the U.S.-led air strikes against the group.
Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/21/us-mideast-crisis-iraq-arms-idUSKBN0O62BH20150521
William Seger
(10,775 posts)... and now we can pay for the weapons to destroy them.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)They simply dropped all weapons and ran.
Now, a highly trained army of Saddam gets to play warrior again, with the top of the line field weapons from the people who fired them without warning so many years ago.
Bush has a lot to answer for.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)They got a lot of stuff there too, I thought?
I'm questioning how much this will improve their capability.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)William Seger
(10,775 posts)... because of what happened in Ramadi: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141098285
bemildred
(90,061 posts)And the other stuff, that's what happened in Mosul too. They all quit their jobs.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)of our equipment. If they can't defeat ISIS, if ISIS is making so much progress in spite of our assistance to date, I question whether anything can help the Iraqis who oppose them. Face it, ISIS would not exist if the Iraqi government were competent.
This all lies on George Bush's account.
This equipment may well end up in ISIS' control,and then where are we?
I don't have any answers. Wish we could undo the history of the George W. Bush selection and regime. It's a sad page in American history. Very sad.
The Bushes. What a bunch of fools. Virtually everything they did went wrong. It's an incredible chain of bad decisions. And now Jeb is running? No. No. No.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)It's a sad page in Middle Eastern history. Very sad.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)to war criminals Bush , Cheney etal
Obama will do what he thinks is best, half of us will criticize it the other half wont
I say that above all else we must do EVERYTHING in our power to make certain another W or Cheney like person, or even worse, ever obtains power again.
I truly believe world war is imminent if ANY republican running for prez wins, maybe other than Jeb. Even though it was his brother that started it all, he may be the ONLY one running who would think twice.
I know that isnt consistent with the past but who knows, regardless, NONE of them are to be trusted
Fournier
(42 posts)The last Bush left office in January, 2009. The current administration also bears some responsibility, no?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Last edited Fri May 22, 2015, 10:55 AM - Edit history (1)
Precisely what was our ambassador doing meeting the Turkish ambassador in Benghazi rather than Tripoli. I have my suspicions.
The Bush invasions of Iraq, one under Bush I and the second under Bush II unseated a terrible dictator and left nothing realistic in terms of government or civil order. There was nothing, absolutely nothing that Obama could do to change that reality when he got into office.
Hussein was a horrible man but he allowed the international inspectors in to do their job (April 2004 edition of Vanity Fair establishes that) and was not involved in the 9/11 attack.
Bush II either lied or did not allow his CIA and other aides to do their work objectively. Others such as Hillary Clinton supported Bush II in that mistake/crime, what you prefer to call it is OK.
Obama is no more responsible for what happened in Iraq than he is for what happened in the stock market crash of 2008.
The Bush family should stay away from politics. They are not good at it.
Once Bush created a Hell in Iraq, there really weren't and still aren't any answers. Obama did the best he could which was to get out somehow. He did not have much help from the government in Iraq at the time which did not want us there and for good reason. Bush pretty much ruined all our choices in Iraq. Bush is solely to blame. He should have kept Cheney on a leash. But Bush is not much of a man, much less presidential material. Republicans. What a bunch.
Fournier
(42 posts)But President Obama could have gotten the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan much sooner, and stayed out of Syria (where we ARE medding),Libya, and now, Yemen.
US intervention in the ME is a bipartisan effort.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bush not only got us into Iraq but he appointed incompetent friends of his ideology to make a mess of the place. Remember. It was to be a proof of free enterprise and the miracles that ideology could work. Well, it didn't ''work." It failed. Bush failed. Iraq failed.
By the time Obama came into the White House, the Iraq experiment had been failing for nearly 6 years -- 2003 to 2009 -- almost 6 years.
Bush made a mess of our economy, of our foreign relations, of everything. He is and was a loser. His brother should drop out of the race because the terrible mistakes of his brother will haunt his campaign. This is just the beginning.
The Iraq War was only good for a few oil companies who got to take over the contracts for the oil. For the rest of the world and for the Iraqis it was a horrible mistake.
And ISIS is the proof. They are apparently worse than Al Qaeda.
Don't blame Obama. Bush threw the dice and lost.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bush went into Iraq. Hillary Clinton and some other Democrats voted for it. But once Saddam was removed, the country of Iraq went from bad to worse. The mistake was going into Iraq. Everything that was bad from that point on grew out of that one, huge, devastating, really bad, beyond horrible mistake. It was the death knell to peace in the Middle East. Just the worst case of bad judgment in the history of the US, perhaps.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #2)
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Purveyor
(29,876 posts)jalan48
(13,842 posts)I mean, we are all concerned about the deficit and the US going broke.
Angleae
(4,481 posts)So about $3 million total.
jalan48
(13,842 posts)I think every military transaction needs to have an identifying cost. It's like paying the NFL to salute the troops. It's really WE the "taxpayers" footing the bill, not the "military".
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)And both tank manufacturers and Antitank weapon manufacturers can profit some more.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)The AT-4 was adopted in the 1980s by the US Army (It had been developed in Sweden) to replace the M72 LAW. The AT-4 has a larger warhead that can take out modern tanks then LAW, but the Law only weighed 5 pounds compared to the 15 pounds of the AT-4.
In the reports I have read the US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan preferred the LAW, for it was as effective against NON armored vehicles as the AT-4 but weight 2/3rd less. The AT-4 sole advantage over the M72 LAW is that it is more effective against post Vietnam era Tanks (i.e. the T-80, T-94, Leopard II and US M1 tanks) then the LAW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT4
Now the specs says the AT-4 has an effective range of 300 yards, while the M72 is only 200 yards.
While I would like to say the US has no M72s LAWS to give to Iraqi, but in January the US Army ordered more M72s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW#United_States
Yes, the AT-4 can take out a suicide bomber car, but so can the M72, The sights was similar, the M72 is cheaper and lighter (thus more likely to be carried by troops that would need them). This leaves three explanation for this shipments"
1. These AT-4 are close to or passed their expiration date. Thus the Army wants to get rid of them anyway.
2. The US Army refuses to give up its own M72 for they want to be able to use M72 in any future conflict and see the AT-4 as to heavy for troops to carry. In both Iraq and Afghanistan the Army found its troops carrying to much on them into combat, something has to give and it appears the AT-4 is one of the things the Army is giving up. The Traditional rule of thumb for soldiers were he should take into combat no more 20 pounds of Ammunition for any more then that weighs him down so much his combat efficiency declines. Out troops were carrying into combat 50-90 pounds. That can be done for short periods of time (up to about a half hour) but then it starts to drag down the soldier. Thus the LAW, may be considered more effective simply because it is lighter.
3. The intention is to put these AT-4 in semi-fixed positions where their weight is less of a factor.
4. If any falls into the hands of ISIS, we know where and how ISIS obtained them. Reports have come out that one main source of ISIS supplies has been Iraqi Army Commanders selling their supplies to ISIS. This is a problem when you have an army raised and organized by people who believes Capitalism/Private Enterprise is the best system to organize everything even the Military (Even Military officers reject this, Militarizes tend to be the most communistic part of any society, no one is willing to die without the promise that their children and spouses will be taken care of and their wounds will be taken care of for life, Capitalists says you accepted that risk yourself where you took your pay, if you did not demand enough pay up front that is your and your children and spouses problem not theirs. Thus Capitalist Miltiades tend to fall quickly to communist based militaries).
5. The US has Shortage of the real stoppers of suicide bombers, 7.62 and 50 Caliber Machine guns, for they can tear apart an engine at 1000 yards. In a gate set up to control entrance the Machine Gun should be 20-50 feet behind the gate so that if anything hits the gate they are out of the blast area, but close enough to engage any charging vehicle.
Side note: The above does NOT mean you can NOT contract out parts of the Military, supply lines have often been contracted out to Capitalists and such contracts tend to be good. The problem is actual fighting troops and their supplies. The troops must feel secure that they will be resupplied and armies will make sure that security is provided even if it means putting troops on the privately owned supply wagons. The US Army is such "Communistic" army, it provided medical care for its troops, their families, pensions for those same troops and their families etc. The US Army fights for Capitalism but in itself it is Communistic when it comes to actual fighting forces.
Javaman
(62,504 posts)nothing more.
Fournier
(42 posts)In many ways.
AT-4
AngryDem001
(684 posts)Ford_Prefect
(7,873 posts)This is one more example of shallow thinking regarding ISIS. If we have such impressive influence in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and so on why have we not cut off the money stream to ISIS?
Response to Bosonic (Original post)
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CanonRay
(14,087 posts)It's a win-win for the defense industry.
reddread
(6,896 posts)so many interesting things in these nostalgia inducing search results, help yourself to a morsel or a missile.
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/20/world/confrontation-in-the-gulf-how-vulnerable-is-iraq.html
looks like Monsanto won the war-
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/GMO/Iraq_and_seeds_of_democracy/iraq_and_seeds_of_democracy.HTM