Pope Francis to allow priests to forgive abortion
Source: Buenos Aires Herald
Pope Francis will give all priests discretion to formally forgive women who have had abortions and seek absolution during the Roman Catholic Church's upcoming Holy Year, in the Argentine pontiff's latest move towards a more open and inclusive church.
In a letter published by the Vatican today, Francis described the "existential and moral ordeal" faced by women who have terminated pregnancies and said he had "met so many women who bear in their heart the scar of this agonizing and painful decision".
In church teaching, abortion is such a grave sin that those who procure or perform it incur an automatic excommunication. It can usually only be formally forgiven by the chief confessor of a diocese -- known by the Italian term penitenziere -- or a Christian missionary, Vatican spokesman Father Ciro Benedettini said.
Read more: http://buenosairesherald.com/article/197737/francis-to-allow-priests-to-forgive-abortion-
But will some of his more recalcitrant flock listen?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110842561
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110841454
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)And heal many souls who have been harmed by the teachings of the past
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Maybe a good small first step towards ending a cruel anti-woman teaching, but still makes me feel ill that so many women have been indoctrinated to feel such shame that they would feel the need to seek forgiveness or hide this for fear of excommunication in the first place. I think it's good though that Pope Francis is doing something to at least ease the burden for some of his flock in contrast to his predecessors. It's a lot more than I would normally expect from a historically horrible two thousand year old male dominated religious sect.
forest444
(5,902 posts)His real problem has been and will continue to be the medievally-fixated Opus Dei (whom he knows all too well from his days as a Latin American archbishop). I'd be very careful with my tea if were Pope Francis.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)wife's pregnancy isn't his own. God decrees according to the dudes giving the procedure that the woman drinks a potion that will abort the baby if she strayed. The idea that God hates abortion is a lie. (Personally, God isn't anywhere near our fuck ups. We do that in our free will and bear all consequences. IMHO)
Numbers 5:27
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
Given that the potion caused this, the baby wouldn't live through that. It is abortion. TELL THE IDIOTS OUT THERE TO CHECK IT OUT! THEY ARE WRONG!
caraher
(6,278 posts)I mean, if I were to walk into confession and say I'd murdered someone, and done so in a genuinely penitential spirit, I'd fully expect forgiveness. That's, like, the whole freaking point of the sacrament! If abortion is murder, and murder can be forgiven in the eyes of the Catholic Church, then this proclamation would be entirely redundant!
For the "angels dancing on the head of a pin" analysis I found this discussion thread a refreshing reminder of how good it is not to be caught in the web of a legalistic religion.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)My understanding was that if you asked for forgiveness the priest had to give you absolution--even for murder though part of your penance would be to turn yourself in. Now of course that was long ago--maybe they made a special case for abortion which the RCC sees as murder but is not a crime in most western countries.
caraher
(6,278 posts)If you read that link it's full of people arguing that "it only stands to reason" that abortion is worse than murder blah blah blah. I really missed the part where the power of the sacrament was limited only to lesser offenses!
bucolic_frolic
(43,137 posts)Whatever side you're on, this Pope's popular message is one of
inclusiveness, forgiveness, tolerance, dialogue. The flock grows,
the tent widens.
I could well be wrong, but I get the idea that his relaxation of
rigidity has been long studied and planned by some factions.
If he were a loose cannon there would be more resistance, noise,
obfuscation.
The old order changeth.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Yes.... wasn't it just hunky dory that Pope Fabulous allows some men who have nothing to do with women to decide to forgive some women if they want to.... for a limited time.
It is truly amazing!
bucolic_frolic
(43,137 posts)The greatest thing since Plenary Indulgences. No worries, no
questions asked. Universal applicable. Madison Avenue has nothing
on Pope Francis.
It would be good to have a token, though, sort of like getting it in
writing, just in case reactionary forces later change their minds.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)And it will piss off the radical minority here in the U.S. that think they represent all American Catholics.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)forest444
(5,902 posts)No pun intended.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts).... and everyone goes all gooey.
Who knew that forgiveness (special deals this Dec.8 to Nov. 26!) was even part of the Catholic Church??? This Pope is truly awesome! Right?
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Bishops here in the U.S. are famously regressive compared to individual parishes and Catholics.
Expect a Bishop to 'explain' what the Pope 'really meant' in a pissy way.
I think you got to the crux of the matter there.
still_one
(92,168 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)happyslug
(14,779 posts)A gift of money to the Church is always viewed as a good work and thus something in your favor, but forgiveness of sin is NOT dependent in how much money you give.
Now, just prior to the Reformation (And one of the reasons for the Reformation) was the concept that one can buy forgiveness of one's sins. Thus if you killed someone, you could get monks in a monastery to pray for your forgiveness. A wrongful killing required so many prays (50,000 or more). Many a king paid monks for such prays, for you did not become a King by mere right of inheritance in the time period between the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the Age or Reason, a little bit of treachery helped (and treachery, by itself was a sin, thus such leaders had to ask forgiveness not only for the acts they did but also for those acts also being acts of treachery).
Thus paying for forgiveness has a long history and can be traced back to the Priests of Ancient Rome who also demanded payments for prays for the sins of the rulers (and the peasants understood such acts were done and had to be forgiven AND demanded that their leaders ask for such forgiveness, thus it has been a long tradition on Western Europe even before Christianity and seems only to have died out in the Age of Reason, when the divine rights of Kings made such acts the acts of God not treachery).
St Francis starts the movement against such prays by monks to forgive the sins of rulers, but it was furthered by Martin Luther and other leaders of the Reformation (Such Leaders used it to abolish the Monasteries and give the lands of those Monasteries to the lower gentry so that such gentry would support the reformation. without that support the reformation would have been crushed early).
Thus one of the affect of the Reformation was the ending of payments to the Church for Forgiveness of sins (something that could be traced back to pagan Rome).
St Francis had opposed such forgiveness in exchange for money, through he supported the Monasteries. John Calvin stated he followed the teachings of St Francis when he worked to close those Monasteries and take their lands. Henry VIII of England opposed the Reformation, till he saw the advantage of taking the lands of the Monasteries and giving them to his supporters (and Henry VIII took those lands while saying he was still a Good Catholic, his son, Edward supported the Protestants during his rule, but reverted to Catholicism under Mary, who REFUSED to take back the lands given to the Gentry. Elisabeth confirmed the lands in the Gentry while saying she was Protestant, but also saying the Church of England was Catholic). Notice the real issue ended up land ownership not religion. Oliver Cromwell of English Civil War Fame, owned land his ancestors had been given by Henry VIII and thus feared losing such land to the Catholic Church for the Church was NEVER paid for that land, it was simply confiscated by the King and given to his supporters).
I go into all of the above to show St Francis ended up starting a lot land transfers when he separated forgiveness of sins from money. On the other hand such separation has been the heart of Christianity since at least the time of St Francis (and St Francis said it had always been a rule of the Church, just a rule ignored by people who were blinded by money).
Since the Reformation, the Catholic Church (and most Protestant Churches) have adopted the policy one should give to the Church, but such gifts do NOT buy you forgiveness, but if you are truly sorry for your sin, God and the Church will forgive you. The Catholic Church permits confessions that permit one to reveal to a Priest one's sins and that priest to forgive your sins).
Please note ONLY Grave Sins need to be Confess in Confession, venial sins do NOT have to be named (and Grave Sins one has forgotten for forgiven if they are truly forgotten after one reviews one's actions):
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4I.HTM
Mass
(27,315 posts)During the upcoming Jubilee of Mercy year, he wrote, all priests would be empowered to absolve the sin of abortion for those who seek forgiveness with a contrite heart. The Mercy Year starts Dec. 8.
Alice500
(24 posts)Of course, absolution requires contrition. But there is no reason for "contrition" on the part of a woman who is merely exercising her God-given right to control her body, because there is no sin.
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Alice500
(24 posts)That would give anyone a big ego.
Alice500
(24 posts)I'm thinking of the ones who molested children.
Jean Genie
(273 posts)And then, are we all going to get to sign a letter forgiving the priests who molested children throughout their careers?
BTW, not all women who've had abortions writhe with agony and feel moral guilt over terminating a pregnancy. Some of us are just goddamned relieved and grateful that we don't have to carry a pregnancy we don't want!
I love the Pope, but maybe priests and other men in the Catholic church should just butt out of something they know very little of!
Agonizing and painful decision? Not in a lot of cases, guys!
Warpy
(111,249 posts)and then the vast majority of women feel nothing but relief.
The poor things in Vatican City just don't realize that different anatomy requires different health care. Since they're anatomically exempted from needing it, they declare it sinful.
If anything is finally going to make them all as officially irrelevant as they are in fact, it will be their continued ignorance of the female half of the human race.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I guess it was the Methodists who split into two types because the people at the top decided it was OK for clergy to be openly gay. Catholics in the United States have long learned to ignore the Pope's pronouncements prohibiting birth control and abortion. Of course, they have this crazy wing of the church, made of people who really should be Baptists or Pentecostals. They used to call themselves "charismatic Catholics," whatever that means. I expect there will be a movement to split off some Catholics who are too outraged that baby murderers could be forgiven.
Judi Lynn
(160,524 posts)Thanks for breaking this story here, forest444. Never expected to see it.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)that did the forgiving. Where do all these middle man get off claiming it is their discretion to forgive? F*CK the catholic church!