Police: 11-year-old fatally shoots intruder, 16, in Missouri

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

ST. LOUIS (AP) — St. Louis County police say an 11-year-old boy fatally shot a 16-year-old intruder during a home invasion.

Sgt. Brian Schellman says officers responded Thursday afternoon to a report of a shooting at a north St. Louis County home.

He says officers arrived to find the 16-year-old boy dead inside.

Police believe the teen made it inside the home on his third attempt to break in and say the 11-year-old shot him in the head.

FULL story at link.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/072c537f6d634c08bfa67eb375b90e97/police-11-year-old-fatally-shoots-intruder-16-missouri

[Kang Colby]

1. K&R....n/t

[Electric Monk]

45. Update: Neighbors say there was no break in and the 11 yr old had been waving the gun around earlier

But neighbors say there’s no way there was a break-in in the middle of the day. One, Donna Jackson, says she saw a conversation between the two boys, then a point-blank shooting.

“It was not a break-in,” Jackson told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, “He shot him in the head.”

Another neighbor said the teen was trying to sell the 11-year-old a phone, but when the older boy reached the house, the younger one shot him.

“He was never in the house,” Jazmyne Clark told the Post-Dispatch, “He wasn’t breaking in at all. He was just trying to sell him his phone.”

She added the 11-year-old had been waving a gun around in front of the house earlier in the day.

A third neighbor said the shooter was a known troublemaker who had previously broken into her house and stolen cell phones.

http://gawker.com/11-year-old-shoots-16-year-old-home-invader-but-neig-1728746097?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

[deathrind]

2. Awesome

Good guy with gun stops bad guy. 1

Bad guy with gun kills multiple good guys. 1000

The good guys are catching up...I guess.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Generally speaking I appreciate your posts in the various forms you post in but...

I hold the IPA responsible for this reply.

[JI7]

3. 3rd attempt to break in

What happened the other times ?

[sarisataka]

4. I normally don't advocate

allowing children access to guns; but sometimes there are exceptions.

Some hold this view:

The gun is a great equalizer because it makes wimps as dangerous as people who really have skill and bravery and so I’d like to have this notion that anyone using a gun is a wuss. They aren’t anybody to be looked up to. They’re somebody to look down at because they couldn’t defend themselves or couldn’t protect others without using a gun- David Hemenway

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hemenway#Other

[Kelvin Mace]

7. So, what is the ratio of

children with firearms killing themselves, family members or friends to children with firearms killing "bad guys".

Also, this is the start of the story. It could be months, or even years before we know what actually happened.

[sarisataka]

9. Probably pretty poor

and should be better since children should not have access to guns.

But if the choice is between two criminals breaking in against an 11 year old and four year old, do know which pair I will side with.

[Kelvin Mace]

11. My instructions would be

if someone is breaking in the house, grab your sibling and run. This child is incredibly lucky, and of course, presumes that he will suffer no long term damage from shooting someone to death.

99.99% of the time, stories that begin "then the 11 year old drew a gun" end badly for the 11 year old.

[Taitertots]

25. 99.99%? It happened once, where are the 10,000 cases where it ended badly?

If I find 10 cases, can you find 100,000 incidents where something bad happened?

At least try to make your fabricated numbers reasonable.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. Hardly fabricated, according to the last study I could find

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children

Over 7,000 children are hospitalized or killed due to gun violence every year, according to a new study published in the medical journal Pediatrics. An additional 3,000 children die from gun injuries before making it to the hospital, bringing the total number of injured or killed adolescents to 10,000 each year.

[Taitertots]

32. Totally fabricated. The data doesn't support your assertion.

"99.99% of the time, stories that begin "then the 11 year old drew a gun" end badly for the 11 year old."

How many of those incidents started with and/or included an 11 year old (or any child to avoid nippicking) drawing a gun? It's obviously not 100%, so it's obvious that youre assertion is incorrect.

[Kelvin Mace]

33. Okay, since we are nitpicking my point

I will rephrase it:

Mixing children and guns in these types of conflicts results in bad outcomes 99.99% of the time.

[Taitertots]

36. And the outcome is still the same. Totally wrong.

"These types of conflicts"
How many of the 10,000 incidents were similar situations?
Obviously much less than 100%, so it's obvious that you're wrong.

[onehandle]

5. So a child killed a child.

Gun nuts will approve.

[Plucketeer]

6. If every one of us had a gun

in a holster

on our hip whenever we were awake and aware

there'd be a hell of a lot less of us

and it wouldn't be just bad guys that would be in the losing column.

[ileus]

30. Not really.

I carry about 80% of the time....for most folks the need to save lives using a firearm doesn't come up that often.

[Plucketeer]

31. If everybody was "packin"....

and everyone could SEE that everyone else was packin', there'd be more deaths from guns. Even IF ..... the good guys in a given setting all managed to draw their weapons and fire..... how many of those "good guy" bullets would ably find only the provocateur's body - and not that of a bystander? Hell - the bad guy might actually survive such a showdown!

[DonP]

34. Well, there's 12 million of us carrying now. But let us know when violent crime goes up again

The FBI says we have the lowest violent crime rate in 40 years and it's getting better.

The fantasy of more people lawfully carrying means more deaths doesn't seem to work out in the real world.

Still waiting for someone to show us one example of a bystander being shot by a trigger happy CCW, or the cops shooting the person with the permit by mistake.

Nice daydream, but it never seems to happen. But don't let reality get in the way of predetermined prejudices.

[Skittles]

46. homicides are surging

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32995911
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-garcetti-beck-crime-increase-20150708-story.html

heck, this one sounds suspect too
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/year-old-st-louis-county-boy-fatally-shoots--year/article_a2898e6e-37aa-5eea-9bb6-14c71622f03a.html

[DonP]

49. Maybe I missed the part where you listed how many are by concealed carry holders?

Or do you just equate all crime with concealed carry permit holders?

BTW, that "surge" of murders, are all in urban areas like Chicago, Baltimore, DC et. al. you know, cities that have had strict gun laws for decades.

[Skittles]

55. who gives a fuck where the guns came from?

the fact is, it is EASY to get a gun ANYWHERE in America thanks to the NRA and PARANOID ASSHOLES

every day, every f***ing day

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/tarrant-county/2015/09/06/murder-suicide-suspected-after-girl-father-found-dead/71808044/

[DonP]

57. That's what I thought - no thought involved on your part

Keep up the good work, you're doing a great job of showing what "Compromise" means on the part of gun control fans.

And we all see the extensive results of your refusal to talk to and about gun owners as if they were human.

Your results, no new gun laws for over a decade, concealed carry in every state, losses in courts, lost offices at the state and local levels.

Just keep using that broad brush, it works so well for your POV.

Good bye.

[Skittles]

58. LOL

EXHIBIT NUMBER ONE

DONE HERE; WASTE OF TIME

[Demeter]

35. Still, on some really bad days, I am tempted to try it

Beware the raging old woman....don't give her your contempt, or she'll shoot it back at yah.


This is a real possibility, which is why I don't own a gun. I'd only buy one if I was going to use it.

[Plucketeer]

39. I was 21 years old and serving in the military.

I was "shacked up" with a Filipina outside of Clark AFB in the Philippines. Unbeknownst to me, she had a local Filipino fella who fancied her his "charge". I was totally unaware of this one fine 1:AM when I was awakened from a sound sleep by someone yanking the covers off of us and blinding me with a huge battery-powered lantern.
While I was trying to comprehend what the HELL was going on, I started to be aware that the lantern's beam was reflecting on something now and then. I finally recognized that something as a big, chrome-plated revolver. I can tell you that that image is still clear in my memory to this day. I never saw my agitators face in all the hub-bub, but I sure remember the left side of that shiny revolver.

So..... what if I'd had a gun under my pillow or next to my bed that night? Would it have been smart to shoot that bastard and ask questions later? Or do I wait to see IF he's gonna shoot - and if he does and doesn't kill me - do I start a shoot-out with him? Imagine me half asleep and groping for a gun. What can we conclude HE might do if he'd realized what was developing. Even having a gun around strictly as a deterrent is risky. It STILL boils down to: More Guns = equal More Gun Deaths.

[branford]

8. There was also a 4 year old girl in the house and the 16 year old had an accomplice later captured.

The 11 year old appeared mature, responsible, trained, and even heroic under the circumstances, and he'll likely bear the emotional scars from this incident for years to come.

There certainly are no winners when children are forced to defend themselves from the violent criminality of other children.

[Demit]

14. The 11 year old now appears mature, responsible, trained, and a budding psychopath.

[branford]

16. I saw the update, and indeed found it disturbing.

The stories of the children and witnesses are inconsistent, but forensic evidence should be able to objectively determine a great deal, particularly if the body was moved.

If the new information is true, I have no trouble indicating my first read of the story may have been quite wrong (and news stories often change), and the child should face severe criminal sanction.

It will be interesting to see how the investigation progresses.

[Ace Rothstein]

10. I feel bad for the 11 year old who was forced to defend himself.

If you don't want to get shot, don't break into someone's house.

[LisaL]

17. Assuming anyone was trying to break into the house.

No sign of forced entry. Witnesses that claim that saw something completely different.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

37. Did He try pointing the gun at his head and say "get out or you're a deadman".

That often will do the trick. No violence required.

[LisaL]

38. From what 2 witnesses say, 16 year old was not actually in the house.

He was either arguing with 11 year old (one witness) or trying to sell 11 year old a cell phone (another witness). 11 year old then shot him, and he fell into the open door.

[Reter]

50. Yeah but then you have to worry about repercussions

Once someone enters your house, it's legal to shoot.

[Skittles]

47. it sounds like a bullshit story

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/year-old-st-louis-county-boy-fatally-shoots--year/article_a2898e6e-37aa-5eea-9bb6-14c71622f03a.html

[d06204]

12. You guys should chill with the snarky comments, this story is getting stranger by the minute

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/year-old-st-louis-county-boy-fatally-shoots--year/article_a2898e6e-37aa-5eea-9bb6-14c71622f03a.html

[rpannier]

13. Yes it is getting stranger

Jazmyne Clark, 18, said the 11-year-old was on the front porch when he called to the 16-year-old to approach him. She said the teen might have been seeking to sell the younger child a cellphone. When the 16-year-old reached the front door, Clark said, the 11-year-old shot him, with the teen falling forward into the open front door.

and

Clark said the 11-year-old had been in front of the house earlier in the day waving a gun around. She said that the boy had caused problems in the neighborhood before and that this kind of thing was bound to happen eventually.

[branford]

15. Huh? These stories often do get complicated.

It should be easy enough to ascertain much of the story. As the body of the 16 year old was found in the home, and the witnesses stories indicated the shooting happened outside, if the body was moved at all, the credibility of the 11 year old would be questionable, at best.

[LisaL]

19. Witness says 16 year old was shot while standing at the door and fell into the open front door.

[JI7]

22. i thought it seemed strange just from reading the headline

[truthisfreedom]

27. So it seems the 16 year old didn't invade the home until he was dead.

Sigh. Another case of a gun in the house causing horror in the hands of a child. The adults involved are to blame.

If you want protection from home invasion, it can be as simple as a good-sized fire extinguisher. Sprayed at a person's face, a chemical fire extinguisher will bring the attacker to a complete halt by instantly eliminating their oxygen supply. They'll be left sputtering and blind and can be conked with the extinguisher if necessary. Much less trauma for everyone involved.

Plus, when kept in the bedroom, a fire extinguisher is very handy for combating a fire as well.

[TexasBushwhacker]

18. Have they not started school yet?

If they have, why was the 11 year old at home at 2:25 in the afternoon?

[Flying Squirrel]

21. Started Aug 17

Good question, but better question is how the kid got ahold of the gun.

[Reter]

51. August 17?

What kids school starts in August? I'm 41 and have never seen a non-college start before the first week of September. The kids here in NYC aren't back until Wednesday.

[Flying Squirrel]

52. Missouri schools

I think they start early and end early so kids can help out on the farm or something

[phylny]

56. Virginia, too.

Our county started two weeks ago, and other counties near here started the week before that.

[loyalsister]

42. That, and I don't understand why the 4 yr old sister was there, too

It seems to me that 11 is a little young to be babysitting.
AND, who would try to break into a house in the middle of the afternoon?
This is a depressing and bizarre story that can only get worse.

[TexasBushwhacker]

43. Well he wouldn't be the first older sibling to be kept home

to babysit when daycare plans fall through. But the thought of him being at home, with a 4 year old, and being able to find the gun is frightening.

As for the "break in" they usually happen during the day when people are at work.

[loyalsister]

44. "he wouldn't be the first older sibling to be kept home"

Agreed. But 11 seems really young and they has a family member in the neighborhood.

It sounds like it was pretty obvious that someone was home. There were also neighbors outside of their homes.

I know novices commit crimes, but it seems to me that some barriers would be obvious to even the most amateur opening act in criminal endeavors.

[Hoyt]

20. Like so many of the self defense stories gunners get giddy about, sounds like gun wasn't necessary.

[Helen Borg]

23. And now the NRA will say...

That all 11-year olds should be given their own little gun.

[Android3.14]

24. There's a lesson here about snap judgments by news hounds

Too often, too many of us will pile on a story thinking it bolsters a specific opinion. I include myself in that observation.

[leftyladyfrommo]

28. How sad.

For everyone.

And it would be Missouri - again.

[ileus]

29. Sad outcome for all involved.

Kids should be left keeping kids.


Kids shouldn't be breaking in. (It may not have been the case)


Kids shouldn't have to defend themselves from home invaders. (If that was really the case)

[exboyfil]

40. There was an adult present

Stevieon Jackson

https://www.facebook.com/stevieon.jackson

Some of his more profound statements:

"EveryTime I Lev Da Crib It A sacrifice I might Go To Jail Or I Might Die

FUCK BITCHES😅😴💃GET MONEY

I Be Dawgin hoes Neva Callin Hoes pillow Talkin Hoes Nigga now You Tripin

niggas want gunplay bitch we shootin down playgrounds"

If it is established that this was a break in, I think he worked himself into a felony murder rap. Little sympathy for a 22 year old with a 16 year old accomplice trying to force themselves into a home with a 11 and 4 year old present.

On the other hand you have the witness statements that say the 16 year old was shot outside the home and fell in.

[SMC22307]

48. Jesus. How do people *get* that way?

I mean, WTH does this even mean?

FUCK BITCHES😅😴💃GET MONEY

I Be Dawgin hoes Neva Callin Hoes pillow Talkin Hoes Nigga now You Tripin

Meh. Back to videos of kind Germans and Austrians welcoming refugees...

On edit: How everyone can help...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/03/refugee-crisis-what-can-you-do-to-help

[bigworld]

53. absent and / or horrible parenting, mostly.

[SMC22307]

54. True. And how much influence are pop culture and shitty music having on these kids?

I mean, they're being fed a steady diet of garbage... are they able to turn it off and on? How do they function in the workplace, if they even have jobs? And their relationships? Egads. From the *genius* Kanye...

One good girl is worth a thousand bitches...

Good luck, kiddos.

[loyalsister]

41. My first impression made be feel sad for the 11 yr old

I would think that is would be very difficult to process and deal with killing someone at any age, but at 11- wow! Now, I feel sad that something or someone turned him into a kid who would actually plan to kill someone. Twisted and scary.