Volkswagen Used 'Defeat Device' To Skirt Emissions Rules, EPA Says

[Cali_Democrat]

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: NPR

The Environmental Protection Agency says Volkswagen intentionally violated the Clean Air Act by using sophisticated software in its diesel-powered cars that detects emissions testing — and "turns full emissions controls on only during the test."

Installed in four-cylinder cars, the software, which the EPA calls a "defeat device" that's meant to trick official tests, allowed diesel Jettas, Beetles and other cars to "emit up to 40 times more pollution" than allowed under U.S. emission standards.

After the automaker was confronted with emission test results this month, the agency says, it admitted that the vehicles contain defeat devices.

Volkswagen must now fix the emissions control systems, the agency says, adding that the automaker could be liable for civil penalties and other punishment. The cars in question are popular Volkswagen and Audi models that were made from 2009 to this year.

Read more: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/18/441467960/volkswagen-used-defeat-device-to-skirt-emissions-rules-epa-says

---

More:

Volkswagen could face $18 billion penalties from EPA

Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) faces penalties up to $18 billion after being accused of designing software for diesel cars that deceives regulators measuring toxic emissions, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said on Friday.

"Put simply, these cars contained software that turns off emissions controls when driving normally and turns them on when the car is undergoing an emissions test," Cynthia Giles, an enforcement officer at the EPA, told reporters in a teleconference.

Volkswagen can face civil penalties of $37,500 for each vehicle not in compliance with federal clean air rules. There are 482,000 four-cylinder VW and Audi diesel cars sold since 2008 involved in the allegations. If each car involved is found to be in noncompliance, the penalty could be $18 billion, an EPA official confirmed on the teleconference.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/18/us-usa-volkswagen-idUSKCN0RI1VK20150918

[bucolic_frolic]

1. THROW THE BOOK AT THEM

This kind of deception is corporations at their worst.

[Sherman A1]

45. Agreed

They cheated the standards set and did so in a very calculated and deliberate manner. I think some significant fines would be in order.

[Roy Rolling]

2. WTF? n/t

[chapdrum]

3. The car commissioned by Hitler

No!

Developed by Ferdinand Porsche.

Allowed to continue operation after the Nazis were defeated. Of course.

Should've been shut down right then, but oh noooooo!

[eggplant]

8. Really? That's where you are going to go with this? Hitler? n/t

[NutmegYankee]

21. Technically the modern company was started in 1961.

Prior to that it was in West German state hands and then the British. The original KDF Wagon from the Hitler era was never built as the factory was turned into state war production during WWII. The Brits then started making cars for the occupation and the company was formed.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. Your plan is stupid enough to create a new Hitler

You would repeat the errors of Versailles after World War One that created Hitler in the first place.

With the 1919 peace treaty, the winners pounded Germany into the ground and created the fertile ground for Hitler to rise.

People wiser than you learned their history and after World War Two they did not close every German company you would have closed.

The result is that Europe is peaceful and Germany democratic and there is no economic turmoil like there was in the inter-war years.

And finally, you haven't thought that nobody running the company now was more than just a baby at the end of World War Two (70 years ago). Most weren't even born until a decade or two after.

Think!

[jberryhill]

78. Who would have ever dreamed the Germans would lie about poisoning us with toxic gas!

[truthisfreedom]

4. So completely evil.

[truthisfreedom]

5. I'm surprised that the article doesn't

Include any explanation for why VW did it. Improved performance must be the reason.

[Lochloosa]

7. More like improved profits.

[Statistical]

11. Yup improves gas mileage and engine power at the cost of killing people with particulate pollution

Catalytic converts needs to precisely control the oxygen level in the exhaust and the only cost effective way to do that is to have some unburned fuel in the exhaust and pipe a portion of the exhaust back through the engine. It works (pretty well actually) but it lowers gas mileage and cuts effective horsepower by a couple percentage.

Basically it allowed them to make their car look better while fucking up the environment.

[Mnpaul]

16. Have you followed a newer VW diesel?

You probably didn't notice. They don't rattle and they don't smoke. I'm thinking this software involves the urea injected into the exhaust to clean up the NOx emissions. My friend just commented last week that he didn't have to fill that tank very often.

[Statistical]

17. NOx is dangerous and toxic.

So they wilfully killed people in order to improve the performance of their vehicles.

[Travis_0004]

26. All diesels emit NOX

What the other person is saying is that the car uses exhaust fluid to convert that to Nitrogen (N2) and water.

It should certainly help get the NOX levels down.

Of course Jettas don't have exhaust fluid, but larger models like the passat do.

[Statistical]

28. I think you are missing the point ...

VW has been cheating. The actual NOx emission are 40x the legal limit because they only run the emissions equipment when testing. NOx kills people. VW willingly and knowingly killed people for years to boost profits by intentionally NOT reducing NOx and pumping right into the atmosphere.

[Kilgore]

34. I have a 2014 Passat

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 11:21 PM - Edit history (2)

Simply amazing mileage. 54mpg on the interstate. Over the last 40,000 miles, our urea usage has been about 5 gallons per 10,000 miles. So obviously they did not turn off the injection.

Curious what they bypassed. I suspect they dialed back the injection rate or possibly decreased the EGR cycles to increase power. Neither is more complicated than a software fix.

[Kilgore]

33. "Willfully killed people" Are we being a bit dramatic?

Not condoning what they did, but keeping it in perspective, it's not like they intentionally left out the airbags.

Fine them so it hurts, and then release a software upgrade. Problem solved.

[greatlaurel]

39. Air pollution debiltates and kills many people. NOX pollution is very dangerous and in invisible.

Air pollution causes tremendous health problems. The damage from air pollution costs people in health care dollars, work time loss due to the illnesses caused by air pollution, extensive damage to property and damage to food producing plants and animals. Air pollution also ends up in our water systems and in our drinking water supply.

Please read this information from USEPA which is not as strongly worded as it could be, but it does lay out the many impacts from NOx pollution.

http://www3.epa.gov/airquality/nitrogenoxides/health.html

"Current scientific evidence links short-term NO2 exposures, ranging from 30 minutes to 24 hours, with adverse respiratory effects including airway inflammation in healthy people and increased respiratory symptoms in people with asthma.

Also, studies show a connection between breathing elevated short-term NO2 concentrations, and increased visits to emergency departments and hospital admissions for respiratory issues, especially asthma.

NO2 concentrations in vehicles and near roadways are appreciably higher than those measured at monitors in the current network. In fact, in-vehicle concentrations can be 2-3 times higher than measured at nearby area-wide monitors. Near-roadway (within about 50 meters) concentrations of NO2 have been measured to be approximately 30 to 100% higher than concentrations away from roadways.

Individuals who spend time on or near major roadways can experience short-term NO2 exposures considerably higher than measured by the current network. Approximately 16% of U.S housing units are located within 300 ft of a major highway, railroad, or airport (approximately 48 million people). This population likely includes a higher proportion of non-white and economically-disadvantaged people.

NO2 exposure concentrations near roadways are of particular concern for susceptible individuals, including people with asthma asthmatics, children, and the elderly

The sum of nitric oxide (NO) and NO2 is commonly called nitrogen oxides or NOx. Other oxides of nitrogen including nitrous acid and nitric acid are part of the nitrogen oxide family. While EPA’s National Ambient Air Quality Standard (NAAQS) covers this entire family, NO2 is the component of greatest interest and the indicator for the larger group of nitrogen oxides.

NOx react with ammonia, moisture, and other compounds to form small particles. These small particles penetrate deeply into sensitive parts of the lungs and can cause or worsen respiratory disease, such as emphysema and bronchitis, and can aggravate existing heart disease, leading to increased hospital admissions and premature death.

Ozone is formed when NOx and volatile organic compounds react in the presence of heat and sunlight. Children, the elderly, people with lung diseases such as asthma, and people who work or exercise outside are at risk for adverse effects from ozone. These include reduction in lung function and increased respiratory symptoms as well as respiratory-related emergency department visits, hospital admissions, and possibly premature deaths.

Emissions that lead to the formation of NO2 generally also lead to the formation of other NOx. Emissions control measures leading to reductions in NO2 can generally be expected to reduce population exposures to all gaseous NOx. This may have the important co-benefit of reducing the formation of ozone and fine particles both of which pose significant public health threats."

[Kilgore]

46. Ya, I know

I have had the chemistry classes.

But from a practical level, a 2 liter TDI VW engine is a nothing point source nothing compared to a power plant, however there are a bunch of them. We know they can pass emissions testing, that means the systems work when enabled.

So fine the hell out of them, maybe throw someone in jail, then release the software patch and move on.

Don't get the drama...

[greatlaurel]

54. Wrong, transportation is the largest source of air pollution in the United States

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/why-clean-cars/air-pollution-and-health/cars-trucks-air-pollution.html#.Vf6yJZd52f6
"In 2013, transportation contributed more than half of the carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides, and almost a quarter of the hydrocarbons emitted into our air."

"Cars and trucks produce air pollution throughout their life, including pollution emitted during vehicle operation, refueling, manufacturing, and disposal. Additional emissions are associated with the refining and distribution of vehicle fuel."

"Diesel exhaust is a major contributor to PM pollution."

http://qz.com/135509/more-americans-die-from-car-pollution-than-car-accidents/

"A new study from MIT suggests that in the US, 53,000 people a year die prematurely because of automobile pollution, compared to 34,000 people a year who die in traffic accidents."

Your argument about a single car engine is specious considering VW sold around 500,000 vehicles and "Roughly speaking, this means that even though diesel vehicles made up just less than 1% of vehicles sold last year, they could be emitting as much as 10-25% of all NOx emissions from 2014 passenger vehicles on-road." Roughly speaking, this means that even though diesel vehicles made up just less than 1% of vehicles sold last year, they could be emitting as much as 10-25% of all NOx emissions from 2014 passenger vehicles on-road.

You don't get the drama about the premature deaths of 53,000 American citizens and 7 million people around the world? That is a pretty callous attitude about the lives of your fellow human beings.

[Kilgore]

55. Right but wrong

You are conflating a problem restricted to a small population with the overall transportation industry.

Issue the software patch, fine the hell out of them, possibly some jail time, then move on.

[greatlaurel]

57. Please explain why you keep trying to ignore the health impacts of air pollution?

Air pollution kills people. Why do you think do you spend so much time trying to minimize the health impacts of air pollution?

[Kilgore]

61. Not trying to ignore the obvious impacts of air pollution, but

specifically to the VW case, this source is correctable with a software patch that allows the emissions controls to fully function.

Yes there will be legal and financial impacts to VW, but the reality of the numbers is that even though 500,000 cars sounds like a lot, their emissions in the aggregate pale when compared to significant point sources like a coal fired power plant.

I don't see the point of getting wound to tight over this since the laws we have in place will do their job as will the court of consumers. In the overall spectrum of things to worry about, this does not even exceed the threshold.

[Justice]

62. VW was unable to fix software according to CA

VW was unable to fix software according to CA letter. I don't think it will be that easy.

VW changed 4 elements in the software - some seriously coordinated work to do this. They denied it to everyone for a year. They only admitted what they had done when the EPA said they would not certify the 2016 models for sale in the U.S.

I get what you are saying regarding reimbursements for lower gas mileage but it is different than just overstating mpg.

There is also a West Virginia study that shows the problems as of 2 years ago.

[Kilgore]

75. If they canno fix it with soft/hardware, then

A buyback or some other solution is in order.

There is a lot of armchair speculation at this point, only time will tell. Notice the epa or carb has not yet imposed a deadline.

[GliderGuider]

68. Latest calculations say up to a million tonnes of additional NOx worldwide

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/22/vw-scandal-caused-nearly-1m-tonnes-of-extra-pollution-analysis-shows

As to the fix, there may be a problem there. It may not be just a software patch. As I understand it, it may require much larger DEF (urea) tanks on the vehicles, which would a) be hard to install; b) require filling more often; and c) add to the operating and maintenance costs.

VW may have just screwed the entire global diesel passenger car business.

[EL34x4]

42. Say goodbye to your 54 mpg.

After the software upgrade.

[Kilgore]

47. I agree

If the fix is increasing the number of EGR cycles, then fuel consumption goes up.

I bet VW will get the same treatment as Hyundai when they were caught fudging mpg numbers. Everyone gets a fuel card paid for by VW.

Checked in on the TDI forum and there are quite a few who swear they will never take their cars into a dealership again to avoid the inevitable software "upgrade" that's coming.

[NickB79]

43. Air Pollution Kills 7 Million a Year, WHO Says

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/air-pollution-kills-7-million-year-who-says-n60741

Air pollution kills 7 million people a year globally, 80 percent of them from heart disease and stroke, the World Health Organization said Monday.

This makes air pollution the world’s largest single environmental health risk, WHO says, accounting for one out of eight deaths.

“The risks from air pollution are now far greater than previously thought or understood, particularly for heart disease and strokes,” WHO’s Dr. Maria Neira said in a statement. “Few risks have a greater impact on global health today than air pollution; the evidence signals the need for concerted action to clean up the air we all breathe.”

[Kilgore]

48. See my post #46

[Statistical]

44. Are you saying air pollution doesn't kill people?

If so then we should intentionally add NOx to the atmosphere. It acts as a global cooling agent.

The reality is air pollution does kill people. Transportation represents about half of the nitrous oxide and carbon monoxide pollution in the world. The reason why is while a natural gas plant may be much larger it is a much more controlled environment. Combustion can be carefully controlled and operated under a very narrow range of conditions. You can't avoid the CO2 but it is much easier to control all the other toxic stuff. A car is much more difficult because it operates under a wider range of power, temperature, and other environmental conditions. This is while emission control equipment is so important.


Air pollution is a real problem. It kills about 7 million people a year. It is a very real health risk and has only been improved by stricter emission controls. Emission controls that in this case VW intentionally bypassed for profit.

[greatlaurel]

49. Thank you!

So tired of posters who use the same old right wing/liebertarian talking points in their pathetic attempts to minimize the harm from air pollution.

Thank you!

[Kilgore]

52. Right wing my ass!

Wait till I share that one at the Bernie rally this afternoon!

[greatlaurel]

56. Good to know you are a Bernie Sanders supporter. Thanks for the info. nt

[Kilgore]

50. "Global cooling agent" are we being a bit dramatic again?

No argument, air pollution is bad, but don't get the hullabaloo in this case when the solution is so straight forward.

1. The car can meet emissions limits. It does so in testing.

2. The defeat software has been identified.

3. VW admits wrongdoing.

Answer = fine the hell out of them, possibly throw someone in jail, and release a software patch. Issue over.

VW may end up with consumer problems when customers MPG suffers after the new software is installed, but we have president for that also in the Hyundai case of a few years ago.

[Nihil]

74. It's a pleasant change to see a balanced reply amidst all the headless chickens ...

... that are brimming over with American exceptionalism today ...

How many people have died from this?
Zero.

How much concern is there for the NOx from polluting trucks, lorries, SUVs?
Near zero.

What fraction of the air pollution in the US is caused by VW's fraud?
Unmeasurably microscopic.

This problem has a solution - *big* fines + patch release - and the damage
that has been done to the VW brand is far more than the federal fine will be.

So when are all of these indignant suddenly-concerned public citizens going
to shut down the coal-fired power stations? Or demand fines from the directors
of Peabody et al? Or demand resignation & jail-time for the Senators & Congressmen
who've been taking bribes from the fossil fuel, power generation, car and
aircraft industries?

[Kilgore]

76. Why thank you!

There are plenty of things to get apoplectic over, but this not one of them.

So here is an interesting comparison. GM killed 125 with their ingnition switch and was fined ~900 million dollars.

Bet the VW fines will be less. Time will tell.

Cheers!

[jakefrep]

64. Not really.

It's just a fudged emissions test.

[NV Whino]

6. Good.

Make them pay for all the piece of shit cars with which they've bilked the public.

[eggplant]

9. This is an old software trick from long before emissions computers.

As an arbitrary example:

Certain computer graphics hardware manufacturers would provide development tools (compilers, etc.) for working with their hardware. This is perfectly reasonable, and necessary, at least back then.

Graphics performance was measured in the industry by taking the same program as source code, and compiling it to run on a given system, and measure the results.

This particular company put in a "defeat" which could detect that the program being compiled was, in fact, such a test, and would remove critical portions of it in order to produce faster (better) results. But if you perturbed the software even slightly, it wouldn't kick in the "defeat", and the nearly identical program would run much, much slower.

As with VW, it's pretty hard to deny it once you get caught. The real nightmare for them is that all of the purchasers of the affected cars have a killer lawsuit for false advertising of their gamed performance numbers. If VW actually brings those cars into compliance, their performance will suck. And it is either that, or buy back the non-compliant cars.

I've got no sympathy for VW. This problem was 100% their own making.

[LiberalArkie]

58. I wonder if it was all the VW diesels or just those made for the U.S.

[tomm2thumbs]

10. this will be a huge class action suit - on many fronts

If you are tired of your car, you might want to think about letting them buy it back from you. Misrepresenting the product seems to me grounds for return of the vehicle at full price. Am I off base here?

[NCjack]

14. Plus 15% more for insult. /nt

[Justice]

29. Not at all - especially when you buy it thinking you're helping the environment.

[fbc]

12. COULD BE liable for punishment??!!!

Well then, I guess it was a great idea on their part.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. Up to $18 billion in penalties:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/18/us-usa-volkswagen-idUSKCN0RI1VK20150918

This is pretty serious.

[Statistical]

15. Yup pretty clear reading of the law. $37,000 per non compliant vehicle sold

a) Violations
Any person who violates sections 1 7522(a)(1), 7522(a)(4), or 7522(a)(5) of this title or any manufacturer or dealer who violates section 7522(a)(3)(A) of this title shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $25,000. Any person other than a manufacturer or dealer who violates section 7522(a)(3)(A) of this title or any person who violates section 7522(a)(3)(B) of this title shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $2,500. Any such violation with respect to paragraph (1), (3)(A), or (4) of section 7522(a) of this title shall constitute a separate offense with respect to each motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine. Any such violation with respect to section 7522(a)(3)(B) of this title shall constitute a separate offense with respect to each part or component. Any person who violates section 7522(a)(2) of this title shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $25,000 per day of violation.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title42-section7524&num=0&edition=prelim

(Note statute says $25,000 but it is inflation adjusted it would be $37,000 in today's dollars).

It would be $37,000 under Section 7522(a)(3)(A) or $3,700 under Section 7522(a)(3)(B)

(3)
(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use; or

[JI7]

18. i was thinking of getting a vw whenever I had enough money

Will have to look into this

[awoke_in_2003]

25. Same here

Really great mileage and doesn't look like a Prius. Oh well.

[roody]

31. What a shame. I love my 2004 Golf TDI.

[Martin Eden]

38. Me too. I've been looking at the new Golf, but not the TDI.

I have a very short commute, and TDI's need regular long drives to regenerate the diesel particulate filter.

I wonder how this violation and recall will affect VW overall. I'd hate to buy a VW, then have the company leave the US market and bail on its service contracts.

And maybe on principle I shouldn't do business with a company that intentionally skirted emissions standards.

[Kilgore]

51. I own one and am amazed each time I fill it up

My 2014 Passat gets an average of 54mpg on the open road, and 47 overall. However my driving is mostly interstate. Seeing 850 - 875 miles of range displayed after a fill up is amazing. I doubt we experience many forced DPF regeneration cycles since our driving style in conducive to self regen.

Doubt they will leave, same thing happened to Hyundai a few years ago and they are still around.

[rockfordfile]

19. If true

If true then hopefully Volkswagen pays the penalty.

[Blue_Tires]

20. If an American automaker pulled this stunt, folks would go crazy...

[Babel_17]

22. How much power will be lost by the fix?

Might be the case that the owners can say "refund please".

[Travis_0004]

27. I doubt anybody will see a refund

Hyundia was sued less than a year ago and forced to change their fuel economy raitings. They ended up paying 88.00 per 15k miles driven basically to make up the difference. (to the owners. They also had fines paid to the EPA.)

[Babel_17]

37. Interesting, thanks

Though arguably the Hyundai owners were made whole. If Volkswagen is forced to tinker with their cars to the point of the owners losing a noticeable amount of horsepower and torque then the drivers might have cause for a lawsuit.

Those features are part of the brochures and Volkswagen drivers often care a lot about those numbers.

[Kilgore]

53. Nobody knows the final result, but

We do know the cars do pass emissions testing. That means with the defeat removed, they should be compliant.

I suspect the defeat is no more than decreasing the number of EGR cycles during normal driving. Increasing the EGR cycles will result in less power and more fuel consumption. But considering these cars normally get better mileage than the sticker anyway, I bet the net result is that the mileage will decrease to where it's supposed to be anyway.

We own a 2014 Passat TDI that always gets better mileage than the window sticker.

[Statistical]

60. There is also the issue of product lifespan

Emission control system especially on diesel vehicles are one area of expensive repairs. By reducing the load on emission control system VW may have extended the lifespan of those parts. Once the defeat is removed the emission system would be subject to a much higher load possibly a load beyond what is was designed to handle continually resulting in premature failure.

Sadly if history is a guide the consumers will be left holding the bag in terms of reduced resale value, higher maintenance, less efficiency, and less performance. There may be a class action lawsuit but we all know the individual consumer will get a small amount from that.

[NonMetro]

23. When All Is Said And Done

The judge will probably order them to give a 10% off coupon for a new VW to each affected customer. Justice, American style!

[wolfie001]

24. Bastards!!!

[rdking647]

32. charge the executives with criminal violations

lock a few top execs in prison for 5-10 years

[greatlaurel]

59. That is what is needed. It is amazing how quickly it would turn around if some execs were jailed.

It depends on the wording in the federal statutes if there are criminal penalties. Some states do have criminal penalty statutes for environmental violations. Ohio does have criminal statutes, but the current AG is a right wing loon, so no hope there.

[YabaDabaNoDinoNo]

35. What is interesting is the article did not say if it is a problem in European VW's too

and if VW is doing it, jacking with emissions SW, most likely other manufactures are doing it too.

What is even stranger is that the Euro Emission Standards are higher then US Standards so why jack with the SW at all?

It could also be limited to North American made and sold VW's, a few VW models are still built in Germany and imported but most sold in the USA are now built in Mexico and TN, which are the ones that should not be bought because they are not built by Union labor, but that is another subject all together.

Unless of course they have always been doing it.

This will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[greatlaurel]

40. These actions are callous and have increased air pollution across the nation. Air pollution kills.

No one should buy a VW after this information has been made public. The executives have acted with complete disregard for the health of the American public. What other data has been falsified to increase the profits for this corporation? They have killed people with their callous disregard of the safety of the American public by making the decision to produce much more pollution from the cars they sell here.

Anyone who lives closer than 300 ft to a major roadway is at much higher risk for respiratory and heart disease due to air pollution from vehicles. Approximately 16% of U.S housing units are located within 300 ft of a major highway, railroad, or airport (approximately 48 million people).

http://www3.epa.gov/airquality/nitrogenoxides/health.html

The new information correlating air pollution and dementia add a whole new health issue that needs a great deal more money for research.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/05/air-pollution-dementia-alzheimers-brain

"While coarse pollution particles seldom make it past our upper lungs, fine and ultrafine particles can travel from our nostrils along neural pathways directly into our brains. Once there, they can wreak a special havoc that appears to kick off or accelerate the downward spiral of degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. While much of the research is still preliminary, the findings so far are compelling. Autopsies of the brains of people who lived in highly contaminated areas have turned up traces of pollution and corresponding brain trauma. And among those still living, epidemiologists have recorded elevated rates of brain disease and accelerated mental decline."

[dembotoz]

41. what is nuts is that this has been going on for a long time

and now they just get caught?

[jakefrep]

63. Volkswagen shouldn't have to pay a dime...

...unless the assholes that "roll coal" in their jacked-up F-350's have to pay too.

[Babel_17]

65. could get slapped with up to $18 billion in fines

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/15/09/21/207217/volkswagen-ceo-issues-apology-over-emission-cheating-software

Posted by samzenpus on Monday September 21, 2015 @05:47PM from the our-bad dept.
cartechboy writes:
Last Friday we learned that Volkswagen got caught cheating on emissions testing via software programming. The punishment? It could get slapped with up to $18 billion in fines. While they company has yet to admit to any wrong doing, the CEO has now issued a formal apology and said the automaker will cooperate fully with any and all investigations. It's issued a stop-sale on all new and used TDI vehicles until further notice. VW's currently in talks with the EPA and the California Air Resources Board in regards to these allegations. It's also ordered an external investigation of its own into the matter. Whether criminal charges will be filed is yet to be seen.

/., so often worth clicking the link for the comments. Especially since they are tech nerds.

[rdking647]

71. and thats just federal fines

throw in class action lawsuits and state fines there is a chance that VW will cease to exist.its a small chance but its possible

[One_Life_To_Give]

66. Hundreds of prosecutions needed, doing your job should not be an excuse

Just as at the Nuremberg trials. There are actions where doing your job is no excuse. That includes being complicit in robbing a bank as well as intentional fraud against a government and it's citizens. Many individuals should now be worried not about their Boss or the next bonus check. But upon the long arm of the law.

[Nye Bevan]

67. Seems like the EPA was a little bit naive,

by trusting the manufacturers not to do this. If they tested the vehicles by sticking a sensor in them and actually driving them around that would be harder to game.

[Nihil]

73. And the thought of splashback like that ...

> Seems like the EPA was a little bit naive,
> by trusting the manufacturers not to do this. If they tested the vehicles by
> sticking a sensor in them and actually driving them around that would be harder to game.

... is currently cause the directors of Ford, GM, Fiat-Chrysler and just about every
other major US manufacturer to shit themselves ...

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

69. Pay a fine, fix the cars, end of story

The fine is already far more than the one against GM. GM's ignition switch killed 170 people. How many have died as a result of VW's shenanigans? Zero?

Or, of course, we could round up the VW execs and shoot them all.

[rdking647]

70. GM was a defect

this was an intentional fraud

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

72. Ignore a defect long enough, it's fraud.

In GM's case, deadly fraud.

Or, if not fraud, then maybe conspiracy, accessory, obstruction, ...

[jberryhill]

77. Leaving a lasting stain on Hitler's legacy

[Kennah]

79. This is what happens when one tries to FartFigNewtons n/t