Liberty Counsel: The Vatican Is Lying About Pope's Kim Davis Meeting

[uhnope]

Source: The Advocate

Hours after the Vatican issued a statement countering Kim Davis's claims that she had a lengthy, private meeting with Pope Francis while he was in Washington, D.C., last week, the right-wing law firm representing Davis fired back, claiming the Vatican is misrepresenting the nature and depth of the meeting.

Mat Staver, Davis's lawyer and chairman of certified anti-LGBT hate group Liberty Counsel, issued a statement today pushing back on the Vatican's attempt to downplay the significance of Davis's papal audience. The one point on which Staver and the Vatican agree is that Davis did not discuss the details of her ongoing legal case, stemming from the elected official's religion-based refusal to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples after the Supreme Court enacted marriage equality nationwide. But their versions of the event otherwise differ significantly.
...
Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi told reporters Friday morning that "the pope did not enter into the details of the situation of Mrs. Davis, and his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects. Pope Francis met with several dozen persons who had been invited by the Nunciature to greet him as he prepared to leave Washington for New York City. Such brief greetings occur on all papal visits and are due to the pope’s characteristic kindness and availability. The only real audience granted by the pope at the Nunciature was with one of his former students and his family."

Read more: http://www.advocate.com/religion/2015/10/02/liberty-counsel-claims-vatican-lying-about-popes-kim-davis-meeting

---

Any surprise that freaking Kim Davis and her lying lawyer were totally bearing false witness about the "meeting"? Like I said at the time, it's well-known that the Pope does not give private meetings as a matter of course. What happened was basically a walk-through shaking-hands meeting at best. It's interesting that Kim Davis has no photo evidence of the "meeting" but the same-sex couple do! SCORE!
?1443806943

[jalan48]

1. This is great. Church wars-maybe they will leave the rest of us alone.

[ToxMarz]

2. Hate reality shows, but this could be an interesting one.

[Gore1FL]

5. This isn't reality; it's religion!

[ToxMarz]

7. Yes, but that is the "reality" of religion

[Bluenorthwest]

3. The anti marriage equality crowd is ripping itself to bits.

It's so funny because they all agree but they still quarrel bitterly. This certainly makes their faith lives seem rich and rewarding.

[Bonhomme Richard]

4. I love it.

This creepy guys uses influence to get that loon into the same room as the pope, makes up a story about his support for her and now calls the pope a liar.
What an ass.

[onehandle]

6. Lying fuckwad lawyers using a lunatic for their own purposes.

As much as I despise her, I hope she finds different representation and sues the fuck out of them.

[LiberalElite]

8. I do believe these "christians" have jumped

the shark with this one.

[alfredo]

9. The only thing that binds conserv Catholics and Evangelicals is their hatred for gays and abortion.

[padfun]

17. But now, the Catholics have had their leader called a liar.

Things are going to get very interesting.

[alfredo]

20. Don't fuck with Papa

Remember. the Klan and other conservative Christians didn't like Catholics at all. I remember hearing the "Papist" word and "Idolaters", hurled at Catholics.

[Geronimoe]

10. Pinocchio Award

Vatican hands Kim Davis and her dream team of attorneys the Pinocchio Award.

[jeff47]

11. :popcorn:

[RKP5637]

12. Kim Davis and her cohorts are absolutely total wastes in life! n/t

[RKP5637]

13. Hmmm, let me think for a nanosecond ... yes, I would surely believe the Vatican anytime before

bizarre Kim Davis, her incompetent lying lawyers and their idiotic flock.

[PJMcK]

31. Bizarre, isn't it?

First, Ms. Davis and her attorneys try to use the Pope to buttress their case by manipulating a "greeting" and trying to call it an audience. Then they call the Pope a liar when the Vatican clarifies the circumstances. Doesn't that undermine their own witness?

[RKP5637]

34. One would think so, but likely her flocks see her attorneys as absolute truth bearers.

I do wonder what the next step will be by the judge. If I were the judge, I would put her clerk's office for marriage licenses in receivership.

[PJMcK]

54. I think the judge has been smart

Judge Bunning, a Federal Judge appointed by President George W. Bush, has handled this case by the numbers and I hope he'll find a way to sanction Ms. Davis' attorneys.

[RKP5637]

55. Yep! Agree!!! n/t

[mountain grammy]

14. Actually, this is getting kinda funny

The old he said she said,only they're both supposedly beyond reproach,right? What a fucking circus.

[RKP5637]

35. Yep, exactly. It's like a SNL skit! n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

15. Agaim, real simple solution

if the Pope was "played".

Denounce her views. Not her personally, just her views.

Anything else is tacit agreement.

[still_one]

16. yup. It won't happen though, because the dogma of the church agrees with her, and they are not

changing

[SusanCalvin]

18. That photo makes me happy.

I want believe in Pope Frank. And I will, given evidence.

[MADem]

19. HAHAHA! That's the way to bring in the Catholics!!

Call da frickin' POPE a LIAR!!



Did her representation graduate from the Tony Soprano School of Public Relations?

First, she lies about Peruvians praying for her, and next she lies about how she wasn't a face in the crowd, shoved into the room with dozens of others, and not getting the touchy feely hugs-n-kisses.

I wanna see her video of her private audience that the Pope said he didn't grant.

Pants on Fi-yah!


I think Frank has some of this going on:

[davidpdx]

25. I was thinking the Frank Underwood School of Public Relations

But then again I never saw the Sopranos.

[MADem]

44. Head for your library, check it out, give it a go!

The Sopranos is well worth a lost weekend or three--it's not what one might think it is, at all. It's horrific, violent, funny, absurd, devious--and the characters are memorable. A real tour de force~!

[LibertyLover]

50. Darn right

heck, even some UFO experiencers have photos. Produce the photos Staver or STFU.

[Gothmog]

21. I do not believe Davis' counsel on anything

These bozos are bad lawyer and liars

[Todays_Illusion]

22. I'll buy the Pope's explanation over anything from a conservative, we just saw their presidential

offerings and each lied nearly every time they spoke. Just because Fiorina was the champ liar of the evening doesn't mean you can belive anything any of them say.

Keven McCarthy is currently busy trying to lie his way out of his slip of truthiness.

[MFM008]

23. arent her laywers know liars?

This is proof that the lawyers were using this "meeting" for nothing but their own gain. Who ever set this up should have to wear a hair shirt for a year.

[herding cats]

24. First they ratfucked the Pope, now they're saying he's a liar too?

That's got to be a new low, even for Liberty Counsel.


JIK people don't know what ratfucking is I've included the definition below:

Ratfucking is an American slang term for political sabotage or dirty tricks. It was first brought to public attention by Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein in their book All the President's Men.

I think the term applies in this case, and no offense was intended to anyone other than those involved in pulling an apparent fast one on Pope Francis.

[Judi Lynn]

26. Next phase will probably involve an all-out war on him.He didn't support their idiot's comical lie.

They should take more time in planning their rat-fucking targets.

The whole thing is amazingly funny. They forgot to add the Pope knelt down and begged this inbred half-wit to bless him, tears streaming down his face.

[RKP5637]

37. Next, she will claim she is channeling JC. The good part of this, if any, is she

is demonstrating how wacky and wacked out some are with their fundy religions. Here is a test she would ace! http://articles.exchristian.net/2005/03/top-ten-signs-you-are-christian-fundy.html

[Anansi1171]

27. The Vatican is despicable and deserving of history's ash-heap.

The had me going with this one named after one of my favorite christian figures. This episode with ultra-bigot Davis has done a service to truth.

[uhnope]

56. hate much?

[Anansi1171]

58. Yes, Kim Davis, Ratzinger and Carlo Vigano do hate much.

I made uncalled for comments out of anger and can apologize to catholics for making them, I'm sorry.

Where is their mea culpa for a career of hate?

[Beartracks]

28. A Pope who warmly greets a gay couple is not also going to...

... have a private meeting to boost Kim Davis' ego or legal case.

Sheesh, look at him hurling fire and brimstone at these poor guys:






To those who think Pope Francis "hates gays" and that therefore all his good and just actions and pronouncements on all other matters mean nothing, just because he can't simply executive-order-away 2000 years of Church doctrine -- it's clear the man himself loves and accepts everyone. And THAT is something that is at the core of Christianity, NOT hate. It's obvious that right-wing conservatives who actively preach and practice hate are not being very Christ-like in their thoughts, words, and actions -- and it is also very apparent that Pope Francis is quite the opposite. He may personally regard homosexuality as a sin, and we can disagree with him if he "hates the sin," but it's clear he "loves the sinner" just the same.

==============================

[RKP5637]

38. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[MADem]

45. Most sensible post on this thread.

He's definitely pushing the conversation, and he knows he's battling an entrenched hierarchy. As I've said elsewhere, I think he got the hell out of the Vatican and those stupid red shoes because he didn't want to be isolated amongst a group of those entrenched and mendacious assholes. He lives in a dorm, cooks/eats communally, and they'll have a hard time killing/poisoning him.

I am waiting for the "private audience" pics and videos of Ms. Davis. Surely, if you knew you were gonna meet the Pope, or the POTUS, or Justin Beiber, even, you'd get a photo...?

[Feron]

53. It's all for the cameras..

Actions mean more than a mere photo op. The same homophobia is still there, but now with a shiny new kind grandfatherly wrapper.

My racist grandfather would smile and sell things to black people. The Pope's job is in part to sell Catholicism.

And his PR team does a top notch job considering how many progressives have been conned into believing that this Pope doesn't support Davis. Hell look how the Church stands in regards to religious beliefs and reproductive health care. It's no different really than supporting Davis in refusing to issue same sex licenses.

Both Davis and the Pope agree that religious beliefs should get a special status from the government. Protestants may dislike Catholics (and sometimes vice versa), but they will and do team up on their pet issues.

[Beartracks]

57. Sell Catholicism?

I don't think his "job" is to sell Catholicism any more than it was President Obama's job to "sell America" after the Bush regime ran our reputation into the ground. Was damage control necessary? You bet. After the pedophile scandal and with all the Church focus on gays, gays, abortion, gays, and abortion in recent years, I think he seeks to reassure the world -- and especially remind Catholics themselves -- that living a godly life is to NOT be preachy, judgmental, and self-righteous, sowing hatred and disgust toward your fellow man. I think he's been very clear that Catholics need to re-focus their energies on social justice, economic inequality, good stewardship of God's creation (the planet), and loving their neighbors, and stop being manipulated by the right-wing into such divisive and inflammatory "pet issues." Has Church doctrine changed under Francis? No. Is he inclined to push for changing it? Probably not. Does he want Catholics to exhibit love toward others, and practice humility and compassion, and does he seek to be an example of these kinds of changes that he wants to see in his flock? Yes.

As far as his attitude toward Kim Davis, if indeed he has one -- if indeed he even knows who she really is over here -- I think Pope Francis would tend toward a thought professed by (Protestant) Martin Luther, the gist of which was that the Christian shoemaker does not honor God by making shoes with little crosses on them, but rather by making the best shoes he can for his neighbor. That is, I think the Pope would maintain that Ms. Davis should do her duty marrying loving couples -- render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, if you will -- or else find another line of work more in line with her conscience.

=========================

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. It's notable that Reuters has withdrawn its claim that the Vatican said it was a receiving line

Here's the cached version of the Philip Pullella story, dated Fri Oct 2, 2015 10:14am GMT:

"The Pope did not enter into the details of the situation of Mrs. Davis and his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects," Lombardi said in a statement.

The meeting with Davis, which was originally kept secret, disappointed many liberal Catholics but delighted conservatives, who saw it as a sign that the pope was clearly condemning a ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court to legalize same-sex marriage.

A senior Vatican official, who declined to be named, said there was a "sense of regret" within the Holy See over the encounter, which sparked widespread debate in the United States, overshadowing almost all other aspects of the pope's visit.

He added that Davis had been in a line of people the pope had met at the Vatican embassy in Washington before he left for New York.

"The only real audience granted by the Pope at the Nunciature (Vatican embassy) was with one of his former students and his family," the statement said.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cBRaqfU4rDYJ:af.reuters.com/article/idAFKCN0RW0X820151002+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

And what it read by Fri Oct 2, 2015 11:17pm GMT:

"The Pope did not enter into the details of the situation of Mrs. Davis and his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects," Lombardi said in a statement.

"The only real audience granted by the Pope at the Nunciature (Vatican embassy) was with one of his former students and his family," the statement said.

http://af.reuters.com/article/idAFKCN0RW0X820151002

So that's 3 paragraphs they've removed, including the claim from an unnamed Vatican official about the receiving line. And I can't find a direct quote anywhere else about it being a line (lots of DUers have asserted that, though). So it looks like Staver has won the battle about it not being a receiving line.

[MADem]

46. In the Vatican, they used to do these things that were not quite "audiences" but they were not

quite "receiving lines," either. Anywhere from 20 to a 100 people file in, sit their asses down, the Pope comes in, he says hello, he might say a few general words of greeting, say a fast prayer, and leave. If he's in the mood he might wander amongst the group and say a few words here and there.

It's not an audience, really--it's like a mini-audience at best. It's not a "receiving line" either. More like an "I was there" kind of thing. JP One used to do those a lot in his early years.

As for the Reuters removal, have they acknowledged it is an edit? Have they said that the comments of the "senior Vatican official" were out of line or in error?

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. No, I could find no acknowledgement of the edit

I looked for their article because others were using "Reuters reports that ...", and found that it wasn't turning up on their website, though the Google News search was returning that article. I don't know if it was a misinterpretation by Reuters, whether the unnamed official claimed knowledge he didn't have, or if he purposely misled Reuters.

If there had been other guests in the room to meet the pope at the same time, I would have guessed they would have come forward by now, because they were probably pro-Vatican, and saying "there were several of us there at the time" would make the Vatican's chosen stance easier.

[MADem]

49. Wonkette had the most honest coverage and analysis/opinion on this story, I thought....

Much of it is too blunt (or bluntly hilarious) for DU, though...

Davis’s lawyer Mat Staver also claims they all agreed to keep the meeting super secret until after the pope went home because “we didn’t want the pope’s visit to be focused on Kim Davis.” Presumably, no reporters noticed Kim and her second/fourth husband Tater Tots Joe lurking around the Vatican Embassy between 2:30 and 3:00 PM Thursday, when the meeting supposedly occurred, because she did her hair in a secret way which renders her invisble, we guess. Maybe Joe Davis put a barrette in his hair too.


Read more at http://wonkette.com/594400/kim-daviss-lawyers-say-she-had-a-secret-stitch-n-bitch-with-pope-francis#9HI2jD4PsFTAveaC.99

[Sunlei]

30. a shame the hate groups like Liberty Counsel are using Mrs. Davis to further their agenda

People donate money to those Gay-Hate "charities" and look how they squander millions to pay high price Lawyers to 'internet fight' over a handshake and smile from the Pope.

What a disgusting waste of million$$. Kim Davis should be ashamed to let them use her like that!

[RKP5637]

39. She's a compliant and stupid stooge. They are using her for $$$$'s and she has no F'en

idea what is going on.

[Sunlei]

40. Liberty Counsel takes advantage of her 'media hits', media clicks for gay hate groupLiberty Counsel.

[struggle4progress]

32. How exciting! Staver got his name in the papers again!

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. Neither Staver nor the Vatican have accused each other of lying

They bring up details the other didn't; and they disagree about the importance of what happened. Staver did say the Reuters report about a receiving line was false; but as I showed above, Reuters have withdrawn that.

It's strange - you'd think DUers, with their long experience of online discussions and arguments, and sitting on DU juries, would be used to distinguishing between 'lies' and different opinions. But in this story, so many people's judgment has just flown out of the window, and everyone latches on to the 'lying liars!' clickbait headlines.

[NonMetro]

52. That's What Gets Me About This:

Why doesn't the Vatican just come out and say Kim Davis and her lawyer are lying when they said they had a pre-arranged meeting with the Pope, at the invitation of the Vatican, it lasted 15 minutes, and the Pope said she was courageous and to stay strong? I'm even inclined to think Davis and her lawyer are liars, so why doesn't the Vatican just say that instead of all this double talk? And you're right: How come Davis and her lawyer are not saying the Vatican is lying? One of them is!

[Bossy Monkey]

36. Also those 100,000 people in Peru were lying; they really ARE Kim Davis supporters.

Also the Church was right the first time. The world is flat. Also...

[DhhD]

41. Davis's Dominionist Pentecostalism is and would be against the fabric of the Catholic Church.

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEVxf_8w9WajUAEcml87UF;_ylc=X1MDOTU4MTA0NjkEX3IDMgRmcgMEZ3ByaWQDcjkyeklTRFFTd201VnBVUXhBYXdIQQRuX3JzbHQDMARuX3N1Z2cDMQRvcmlnaW4Dc2VhcmNoLnlhaG9vLmNvbQRwb3MDMQRwcXN0cgNQZW50YWNvc3RhbGlzbSByZW1vdmVkIGZyb20gdGhlIENhdGhvbGljIENodXJjaCBodW5kcmVkcyBvZiB5ZWFycyBhZ28EcHFzdHJsAzY5BHFzdHJsAzY5BHF1ZXJ5A3BlbnRlY29zdGFsaXNtIHJlbW92ZWQgZnJvbSB0aGUgY2F0aG9saWMgY2h1cmNoIGh1bmRyZWRzIG9mIHllYXJzIGFnbwR0X3N0bXADMTQ0Mzg4NjEwNA--?p=pentecostalism+removed+from+the+catholic+church+hundreds+of+years+ago&fr=sfp&fr2=sa-gp-search&iscqry=

One of the searches is this article/study of opinions:
http://www.pewforum.org/2006/04/24/moved-by-the-spirit-pentecostal-power-and-politics-after-100-years2/


These opinions are opinions. I do not speak for any church or leader of any church.

[DhhD]

42. Senator Cruz was out supporting Davis when she left jail over her religious beliefs.

Pope Francis visited Cuba before coming to the United States.

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT9eu.A9Wno8A5XtXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3NmcARncHJpZAM3dmxVaXR5UlE0V2NMdkJkc2lXVVNBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMwBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDBHFzdHJsAzc4BHF1ZXJ5A0N1YmEgYW5kIHBlbnRlY29zdGFsaXNtIHJlbW92ZWQgZnJvbSB0aGUgY2F0aG9saWMgY2h1cmNoIGh1bmRyZWRzIG9mIHllYXJzIGFnbwR0X3N0bXADMTQ0Mzg4NzI4NA--?p=Cuba+and+pentecostalism+removed+from+the+catholic+church+hundreds+of+years+ago&fr2=sb-top-search&fr=sfp

[denverbill]

43. Wow. Calling the Pope a liar. And her a Catholic?

Don't Catholics believe Popes are infallible?

[MADem]

47. She's not a Catholic--she belongs to a fundy/non-liturgical church. nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

51. A) I don't think she's Catholic, and B) Only when he's speaking Ex Cathedra.

So only part time, and not very often.