Hamas leader in Gaza declares intifada as deadly attacks continue

[muriel_volestrangler]

Source: The Guardian

Hamas’s leader in Gaza has declared the current lethal unrest in Jerusalem and the West Bank an intifada, as five Palestinians were shot dead protesting at the border fence, further raising the stakes after a week of escalating violence.

The comments by Ismail Haniyeh contradicted recent remarks by Fatah’s leadership, including the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas. There has been increasingly widespread use of the hashtag #intifada on Palestinian social media.

In a sermon for Friday prayers at a mosque in Gaza City, Haniyeh said: “We are calling for the strengthening and increasing of the intifada. It is the only path that will lead to liberation. Gaza will fulfil its role in the Jerusalem intifada and it is more than ready for confrontation.”

Israeli troops fired across the border into Gaza, killing five and wounding 23 others among a group throwing stones and taking part in a rally, hospital officials in Gaza said.


Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/09/hamas-leader-gaza-declares-intifada-deadly-attacks-continue

[sulphurdunn]

1. What exactly gave soldiers in Israel

the right to shoot people in Gaza?

[fingrin]

37. Well the Pesky

Palestinians were throwing stones 150 feet away in their direction. Some of those stone throwers must have biceps like Arnie. I'll be back!

[nyabingi]

2. Now watch Israel start bombing Syria again

They usually incite a crisis when they want to carry out some dastardly deeds under the radar.

What justification can Israel have for shooting dead five Palestinians in Gaza territory for throwing rocks? I guess those people in Gaza have become so accurate when throwing stones that those stones are as deadly as rockets and other explosives.

[Archae]

3. Once again, Palestinians can do no wrong...

Can I threw a hand-sized rock at you, hitting you in the head or face?

You know, MAYBE if those morons would stop throwing rocks at a whim, they might stop getting shot at.

And it was not just rocks.

One video on CNN had a couple Palestinians throwing firebombs.
But that's ok, right?

Hamas is a hate group, they encourage and even celebrate vicious murderers, and hide behind civilians to launch rockets.

[wordpix]

4. they should throw rocks at their billionaire leaders who gouge them and sell their land

A sample:

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-the-phenomenal-wealth-of-hamas-leaders-1000957953

snip: The Asharq Al-Awsat (Middle East) newspaper, one of the most prestigious in the Arab world, recently reported that at least 600 millionaires were living in the Gaza Strip - the same people sitting on the money pipelines there.

Elad describes how the system worked and to how much money (huge amounts) Hamas leaders were exposed: "Senior Hamas leaders charged a 25% 'tax' and $2,000 on every disassembled vehicle coming through the tunnels. There are hundreds of smuggling tunnels from Egypt to Gaza, and these are the types of tunnel Israel has been less busy in destroying, because Egypt has destroyed many of them. From June 2007 until 2010, $800 million in cash was transferred in tunnel deals (according to information from Hamas money traders). Hamas also taxes Gaza merchants on everything traded, from boxes of vegetables to luxury cars, and the leaders scoop the money into their pockets."

Another source of wealth for Hamas leaders was taking over land. "They took over land mainly near the sea in good areas, such as the former Gush Katif, then sold it. In effect, they are the cat guarding the cream - the land - so they were able to take over land and loot it for themselves," Elad explains.

[Archae]

7. Just continuing Arafat's prouid tradition...

Stealing billions in aid, squirreling it away and calling for Israel to be destroyed.

[sulphurdunn]

46. Yep, everything is the fault

of those dastardly Hamas billionaires. Israel turning Gaza into a giant concentration camp and routinely murdering thousands of people has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

[leftynyc]

6. With some posters you're

wasting your time by engaging. With some, it's only the US and Israel that is responsible for every problem in the entire world. In this case the Palestinians aren't victims of their corrupt leaders (who in Gaza are a terrorist organizations), it's only Israel's fault that their leaders spent all the aid money on building tunnels instead of homes, schools and hospitals and they should be allowed to injure or kill any Israeli (or in the case of BDS, all Jews) until they get a state. Just don't waste your time.

[nyabingi]

9. You act as if there are Gazans living in mansions

and driving Bentley's around their seaside estates, living the high life.

Maybe if Israel allowed Gaza to openly trade good and services with other place they wouldn't have to smuggle goods in. But you probably think its just fine and dandy that the Israelis control every aspect of Gazan life. That's just natural and as it should be to you.

[wordpix]

11. there are! And they made their money gouging people at the tunnels, selling Palest. land,

etc. Read up

[nyabingi]

17. Hmm, this sounds eerily similar

to white southerners blaming Africans selling Africans for the Transatlantic Slave Trade. We Black Americans are ultimately responsible for our own enslavement and mistreatment over these last few centuries.

I'm sure the people of Gaza would like the opportunity to carry out trade with other countries and be able to provide goods and services for the population like most countries do, but they aren't really presiding over a country now are they? Prisoners like El Chapo have to dig elaborate tunnels to escape from maximum security prisons, and Gazans are forced to do the same in order to survive.

Gaza is a large prison so tunnels make sense.

[wordpix]

26. Gazans should investigate their own leaders and clean house

This is from one of my college student's papers and I have checked the sources:

snip: Experts surmise that Hamas leaders became wealthy as a result of the profitable tunnel smuggling trade (Schanzer, 2014, p.4). One whose wealth is under scrutiny is senior political leader Khaled Meshaal, whose wealth is estimated at $2.6 billion by the Israeli publication Globes. Arab media sources state he may be worth up to $5 billion (Schanzer, 2014, p.6). Meshaal may control real estate development companies registered under the names of his wife and a daughter, as well as money "reportedly held in Egyptian and Gulf-based banks as well as in a number of real estate projects in Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Dubai, all registered under different names” (Schanzer, 2014, p.6).

According to an Israeli report, “Cairo-based Hamas leader Mousa Abu Marzook is currently worth $2-$3 billion. Arab media sources put Abu Marzook’s net worth at $3 billion. It is unclear whether Cairo has seized these assets or if Marzook is under investigation” (Schanzer, 2014, p.3). snip

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/FA/FA13/20140909/102629/HHRG-113-FA13-Wstate-SchanzerJ-20140909.pdf

Several nations have been and are supporting Palestinians. The emir of Qatar pledged $400 million to Hamas in 2012 for building projects, which appears to have not been spent on such projects according to Retired Maj. Gen. Yaakov Amidror, one of Israel's top intelligence officials. This is a drop in the bucket considering other countries including our good friends Turkey and Saudi Arabia, and esp. Iran have given a total of billion$. Iran alone is said to have given Hamas $1 billion, or $300 million/year. Yet Palestinians continue to live in poverty, some with nonexistent infrastructure like water and sewer service. I feel sorry for them, but they need to stop blaming Israel for everything that's wrong and follow the money their leaders are getting, which is in the billions, and is not trickling down.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-20037203

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/09/qatar_must_stop_funding_hamas.html

http://www.timesofisrael.com/as-it-battles-hamas-israel-singles-out-its-sponsor-qatar/

Read up and don't swallow the Koolaid, nyabingi

[nyabingi]

34. The fact that Hamas leaders are wealthy

and corrupt does absolutely nothing to absolve Israel of the prison-like atmosphere and living conditions they have the Palestinians living under. There are elected officials fleecing public dollars in every country on earth, so why would Hamas be any different? It is not these people who are responsible for the misery of the Gazan people, but you can believe that if it comforts you.

If Hamas' leaders utilized all of the foreign financial largesse to rebuild the destroyed infrastructure in Gaza, Israel would simply launch another large scale attack and raze it all to the ground just like they do every year. Israel has no intention of allowing the Palestinians in Gaza to establish a stable, prosperous standard of living and that should be clear to everyone with a brain.

So go ahead, keep posting links proving something I don't even disagree with. You apparently feel the need for a touche moment but you failed my friend.

[COLGATE4]

27. Yep. They're all trying to escape into Israel. nt

[leftynyc]

12. How interesting (and by that I mean

totally predictable) that you give zero blame to Egypt and zero blame to the elected terrorist organization hamas. Perhaps read post #4 right here and get educated about something. Or don't and remain ignorant in your belief that Israel is responsible for everything (when it's not the US). It truly doesn't matter to me.

[Mosby]

24. Gaza has a border with Egypt

Funny how you fail to acknowledge that in your comments condemning israel.

[sulphurdunn]

40. What exactly does Egypt's border with Gaza

have to do with Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinians in Gaza?

[nyabingi]

8. Stop making excuses for the IDF

They have helmets and are in very little danger of risking a fatal stone strike of the kind David delivered to Samson. If the Palestinians were shooting M-16's at the Israelis, then lethal return fire would be justified. That however is not the case.

They will use any reason to justify killing some Palestinians because why not? No one is going to make them stop and I guess its just fun for these guys. They bully the Palestinians because they are all pretty much defenseless compared to Israel.

[Archae]

10. Quit making excuses for the Palestinians!

They were throwing firebombs in addition to large rocks, and would you want to have a hand-size rock or a firebomb hit you in the face?

[leftynyc]

13. That poster does nothing but

excuse the terrorist hamas. Israel is to blame for 100% of what happens and the poor pitiful kittens in hamas are helpless to do anything BUT turn to violence (when they're not fleecing their citizens of all aid). You're wasting your time.

[nyabingi]

21. Everyone has a right to defend themselves

even if it amounts to throwing rocks.

Israel is despised by so many worldwide because they are bullies using advanced weaponry against people who stand no chance to match their firepower. Yet there are people who want to pretend Israel is the underdog and that we should feel sorry for them and empathize with their violence against their neighbors.

If no rocket or stone was thrown from Gaza towards Israel for the next 40 years, Israel would still find reasons to make the Gazans' life a living hell. You know that's true because their ultimate goal is to push the Palestinians either into the sea or into some neighboring country.

[leftynyc]

22. Let me know

when the pathetic and odious bds supporters manage to get a meeting with any elected official in this country, let alone get any support from anyone who has power. Until then, rail away. It makes no difference to me or to Israel.

[wordpix]

31. yes, Israel is the devil and the Jews are the problem - Hitler said so, too

and Hamas is spouting the same BS. Congrats on being a supporter

[nyabingi]

35. I didn't say that, you did

Hamas says some reprehensible things (which I can admit and acknowledge), but the Israelis say things equally as reprehensible (which people like you find hard to condemn).

[GGJohn]

44. And yet, the only ones you condemn and criticize are the Israeli's.

Hmmmm, very interesting.

[nyabingi]

58. Because Israel can take the lead in

reducing the amount of violence in Palestine but they have no intention of doing that.

Israel has never wanted peace with their Arab neighbors and that is something pro-Israel folks just can't seem to bring themselves to admit. If there was never another violent act committed by a Palestinian against an Israeli for the next twenty years, Israel would still be killing Palestinians daily and you know that's a fact.

Israel has the big guns and control everything that goes on in the lives of the Palestinians. They are bullies who pretend to be the bullied and they get away with it because people like you buy into that narrative. Many people see it for what it is though.

[GGJohn]

60. Israel has tried to take the lead numerous times,

but the Palestinians, Hamas, Hezbollah don't want peace, they want the total destruction of Israel, as they have stated time after time.

[nyabingi]

62. When Israelis themselves openly state that

they claim the lands on which Palestinians live, that's pretty much stating that "peace" is out of the question right?

You can't say you want peace while steadily carrying out a long-term program of ethnic cleansing. We want peace so we'll just bulldoze your homes and put our homes there instead. It's very obvious to many people what's going on and unless those people aren't hopelessly biased, they see what's happening.

[GGJohn]

63. Ethnic cleasning?

That's a hoot, if that's their goal, they're sure doing it wrong.
Now I know you're nothing more than an apologist for those that want the destruction of Israel.
Good luck with that.

[nyabingi]

65. I don't want the destruction of Israel

I just want them to be happy with what they already have and stop trying to take more just because they feel they are entitled to it.

I'd like to see Israel stop using their religion to justify their goals of manifest destiny - it's as much a perversion of Judaism as is ISIS' perversion of Islam or right-wing Christians' perversion of Christianity. No real God would agree to the bullying and misery Israelis have heaped upon the Palestinians for these many decades.

[nyabingi]

15. You respond to Molotov cocktails with bullets

Would you want a bullet to hit you in the face?

[wordpix]

16. Palestinians should deal with their own leaders who steal from them

Maybe they could get their money back and then vote for some decent people who aren't thieves, and see what happens.

[nyabingi]

19. It doesn't matter whom they elect

because the Israelis will create a reason to kill them too. What elected government can you think of that is NOT stealing from the people who elected them?

Nothing is going to stop Israel from making Gaza into a wasteland. There's a lot of nice coastline property to build condos along the Mediterranean, just gotta clear the rubbish off of it first.

[wordpix]

32. it appears it's Hamas leaders who are "making Gaza into a wasteland"

some have bought that oceanfront property with their million$ to make more million$ for themselves, leaving their people without water and sewer. But you don't want to address that fact, do you?

[nyabingi]

36. That may be true

but that doesn't absolve Israel of its prime role in creating misery in the Gaza Strip.

Again, if those Africans hadn't sold other Africans into slavery then slavery never would have happened...

[GGJohn]

45. Molotov cocktails can kill you,

are you really that naïve?

[nyabingi]

56. Sure they can

but don't pretend as if they are on the same par as bullets.

Are you that naive?

[GGJohn]

57. Ahhhh, now I get it.

You're not as dead if a Molotov cocktail kills you as opposed to a bullet?
Are you really that serious?

[nyabingi]

59. And I'm guessing thrown stones are the same

as missiles shot from F-16s to you as well?

Bullets and missiles are far more lethal than firebombs and stones, and I'm sure most people would agree with that. Except for the pro-Israeli crowd who like to exaggerate every instance of violence as being as existential threat to the survival of the Jewish state.

[GGJohn]

61. Are you saying that stones can't kill you?

If so, then why are there stories of women being stoned to death in the ME countries because they violated some law?

[nyabingi]

64. You know that's not what I'm saying

so stop playing games with me man. I mean seriously, you're just trying to be annoying right now because you are struggling. You are not doing anything to help yourself.

Now I realize that after generations of throwing stones, many Palestinians are probably a lot better at it than your average homo sapien. Their rocks tend to be magnetically attracted to Israeli temples, thus making them the equivalent of bullets shot from M16s. I'm sure that's the equivalency you're going for, and it's just plain ridiculous and you know it.

Usually when people are being stoned to death, they are immobilized with nothing but their heads exposed so that they can suffer the agony of being pelted to death by dozens of rocks thrown from more than one person. Now, show me some pictures or something of Palestinians stoning to death some hapless Israelis and maybe I can take you seriously.

[sulphurdunn]

41. They couldn't hit anybody in the face.

They didn't get within 50 yards of the border before the heroic IDF opened up on them with live ammunition.

[JDPriestly]

18. What do you think would happen if the Israelis just let the Palestinians throw

stones and firebombs into Israel?

[nyabingi]

20. I don't think stones and firebombs are quite as bad

as the laser-guided missiles and smart bombs Israel used on hospitals, shelters and schools in Gaza last summer, but maybe those Palestinians have quite the deadly aim with those rocks.

Getting bopped in the head with a rock is not quite as devastating an injury as being blown to bits, wouldn't you agree?

[JDPriestly]

23. My question is what do you think would happen if the Israelis just let the Palestinians

throw the stones without any response?

[wordpix]

30. forget it, it seems nyabingi does not respond to facts

He or she has blinders on so don't confuse him/her with truthful facts and info

[GGJohn]

68. It would seem that he/she is an apologist for those that seek the destruction of Israel. eom.

[Bradical79]

53. they might keep throwing rocks?

Murdering Palestinians hasn't stopped people from throwing rocks. Maybe it's time for a new tactic. It's nice to know you fully support murder as a response for rock throwing though.

[nyabingi]

69. They need to sit down across a table from the

leaders of the elected representatives of the people of Gaza (and yes, that means Hamas whether you approve of them or not), and talk about why people are throwing stones and why people are shooting stone-throwers dead.

If someone is continually throwing stones at you, they have a grievance with you about something. If Israel really wanted to end the stone-throwing, then they would agree to talk with Hamas in order to come to some kind of understanding. I don't care how many years any wars have been fought, at the end its diplomacy and talking that puts an end to it.

As it stands, neither side is very willing to talk because both sides have demands that the other is simply not willing to budge on. Hamas will have to accept the fact that Israel does in fact exist and nothing can be done about that, and Israel will have to recognize that eventually its status as international pariah state will have to come to an end (and that will probably only happen through boycotts and divestment, just as it did with South Africa).

Shooting little kids who are throwing rocks at you is not the appropriate solution unless you feel Palestinian life is worthless (similar to how Black folks are treated by law enforcement in the US).

[FrodosPet]

66. Teaching children to shoot Jews and become masters of the world

[GGJohn]

67. ...

I don't think stones and firebombs are quite as bad as the laser-guided missiles and smart bombs Israel used on hospitals, shelters and schools in Gaza last summer, but maybe those Palestinians have quite the deadly aim with those rocks.

Those stones and firebombs will kill you just as dead as bullet, missies and bombs.

[sulphurdunn]

42. Nothing?

[JDPriestly]

47. I think that the stone-throwing would escalate into more serious violence that

the world would agree justified a very violent Israeli response.

The parties need to agree on borders and who owns what. Until they do that there will be no peace, and Israel will probably continue to win every battle.

The Palestinians need to learn to live with their Israeli neighbors and work with them to improve the lives of all the people in the area. Same for Israelis.

[sulphurdunn]

49. Do you think the Israelis

were ever serious about a two state solution? How peacefully would you live with your foreign neighbors if their soldiers violently occupied your home and their civilians stole your land and harassed and killed your people with impunity?

[Bradical79]

54. Pre-emptive murder is the proper response aparently

Gotcha. Wouldn't want things to get really violent

[fingrin]

38. Oh please stop being a Jewish apologist

and face reality, Both sides are as bad as each other. Palestinians throw rocks, the IDF pretends to be Palestinian protesters and shoots one in custody in the leg when subdued.
Oh hang on my bad. One is worse than the other.

[Bradical79]

55. They go beyond being apologists

when they pretend shooting and killing people is the proper response for rock throwing and blame the entire Palestinian populace for the deaths. They're fucking racists. That's all there is to it.

[sulphurdunn]

39. Try and get your head around this.

Gaza is legally no longer occupied territory. Israeli soldiers mowed down 28 people in Gaza with gunfire from behind their security positions in Israel. There is no evidence that any of those people posed a security threat to the heavily armed Israeli soldiers who shot them from across the border. The very notion that throwing rocks and rolling burning tires at an armed barricade that cannot be breached warrants that kind of response is bullshit. American soldiers who did something that cowardly would be court martialed.

[cloudbase]

5. The new intifidada will work as well as all previous ones. n/t

[Calista241]

14. Not even that well.

The intifada will only work if it gets world attention. With the war in Syria, and the campaign against ISIL, there's only so much mindshare left for the Palestinians.

[Mosby]

25. That's part of why this is happening.

Abbas calls on America to pay more attention to Palestinian cause

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/20253-abbas-calls-on-america-to-pay-more-attention-to-palestinian-cause

Palestinians Cry Out for Attention

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-10-01/palestinians-cry-out-for-attention

[COLGATE4]

28. Hey! Hey! Pay attention to me!! nt

[6chars]

29. Murdering people isn't going to generate a lot of sympathy.

I think they are playing a risky game.

[sulphurdunn]

43. No, this happens becasue the Israelis

treat the Palestinians like subhuman trash, want their land, and intend to slowly push them out to get it. Hell, it's no mystery, they've been doing it since 1948.

[arikara]

48. And getting away with it

because anyone who stands up for the Palestinians is branded as "anti-semetic" and vilified.

What an insane world we live in.

[Throd]

33. 1,000 Palestinians and 15 IDF soldiers will be killed. Wait 5 years. Repeat.

[sulphurdunn]

50. When your choice is between taking a beating

on your knees or on your feet, most people stand up. Those who keep getting back up eventually prevail. Sadly, the Israelis, who wield the power to administer the beatings, appear to to far gone down the rabbit hole of ethnic supremacism to stop administering them.

[Jesus Malverde]

51. "Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation"

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847

The article outlines how the Israelis created Hamas as a means of destroying the PLO. We see the same strategy playing out around the Middle East.

Always a good strategy to create your own opposition. They can do your dirty work, make your victims look like monsters and give you an excuse to continue your brutal ways.

If your facing a movement, creating your own radical wing of that movement is a good way to discredit it.

[Bradical79]

52. and the cycle continues...

Not much to add, other than saying the moves are 100% predictable at this point.