Obama Says Israel Will Only Be Secure With A Two-State Solution

[Stuart G]

Last edited Fri Oct 16, 2015, 06:52 PM - Edit history (7)

Source: Huff Post

President Barack Obama on Friday warned that the recent violence between the Israelis and Palestinians will likely persist in the absence of a two-state solution.

“We condemn in the strongest possible terms violence directed against innocent people -- and believe that Israel has a right to maintain basic law and order and protect its citizens from knife attacks,” Obama said at a press conference at the White House.

“Over time, the only way that Israel is going to be truly secure, and the only way the Palestinians are going to be able to meet the aspirations of their people, is if they are two states living side by side in peace and security," he said.

The president’s remarks come amid an outbreak of violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians, which escalated on Friday after Hamas declared a “day of rage” against Israel.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-two-state-solution_56213dbce4b02f6a900c2150

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He said this today, and it is the truth. All who study this one at length know it is the truth. When some kind of deal is eventually worked out, the violence will subside. Current leader of Israel will not make that deal, so it will be someone else. This can be argued endlessly, but the "Two State Solution" is the solution in my opinion.

....Also ,making peace has its dangers in this area. Example: President Jimmie Carter , Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin signed a peace treaty on March 26, 1979. Guess which one of these three was not killed by crazies in his own country? Peace is not easy, and it is dangerous in many ways. So many really do not want peace for so many reasons. And that for me is the saddest part of the human story.

.. got a moment? ...read my signature below this writing..He was also telling the truth..

[Stuart G]

2. Many have said that over time, these two countries at peace would become friends.

I have not studied that one, but many have, and say it would be true. Lots of trading back and forth and so on. But it would take time. You are correct, then with their own country, the Palestinians would have no need to lob a missile into Israel. But this idea has to be tried for a while to see if it can work. Lots of other ideas have been tried, why not this one? As was said long ago...."Give Peace a Chance"...

[BillZBubb]

3. Not so wise if you post bullshit like you just did.

The US wouldn't "wipe Mexico off the map" if missiles started coming over the border. We'd determine if the missiles were the act of rogue agents or if they were an act of the government. If rogue agents, we would attack them and destroy them. If the government, we would effect regime change. Mexico would still be a country, but with more peace minded leadership.

What is it with the Middle East that everyone talks so foolishly about "wiping so-and-so off the map"? It is infantile.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

8. Why Indeed?

Maybe it rubs off from the Ayatollahs, and a few former leaders of the Palestinian terrorist who talked about driving the Zionist Entity into the sea and such. You have to remember talk like that is just for domestic consumption.

[Ken Burch]

17. Nobody on the Arab side used that phrase in 1948.

Ben-Gurion just accused them of wanting that during what Israelis call "The War of Independence" and Palestinians call "The Nakba(The Catastrophe)"-a term used not to describe the creation of Israel, but the completely unjustified forced transfer of 800,000 Palestinians from their homes...homes to which they were never allowed to return.

Like all the other forced population transfers of the era, it was completely indefensible and an ackowledgenent of and apology for the injustice must be made if peace is ever to be achieved.

[oberliner]

53. NY Times, August 02, 1948

CAIRO, Egypt, Aug. 1 -- Sheikh Hassan el-Bana, head of the Moslem Brotherhood, largest of the extremist Arab nationalist organizations, declared in an interview today: "If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E04E2DE133EE03BBC4A53DFBE668383659EDE

[BillZBubb]

4. The Likud and settlers have pretty much made a legitimate solution impossible.

There is no way Israel will force the settlers back off of Palestinian land they have confiscated (ie stolen). There is no way a viable Palestinians state can be formed without that land.

Israel wants the land much more than it wants peace. Every act the Likud and Israeli right make is to ensure Israel keeps the West Bank land they want. The voters of Israel support them in that endeavor.

[Stuart G]

5. You see? there are people who do not want peace..

Not a new idea about what this group or that group wants..There are leaders of peace in Israel who would take a chance on peace. Many voters of Israel would support peace over land. Deals are made, they always are, and have been in the past.. That is not new either. Land is exchanged for peace..oh, we could argue that one, but it is/has been. Countries compensate for land...etc..It has been done, and can be done again..if people try. Some don't want peace..that is in post one. But many do.. More than we know..too much war and death..

.

[BillZBubb]

6. You see the glass as half full...

I see the glass, in this case, as too big to ever be filled.

A profound political change in Israel would have to occur before a real peace can ever be established. I see no sign of that.

[Stuart G]

7. Yes, I do..and furtheremore

Stranger things have happened throughout human history. Perhaps one of those good things could happen and there is peace..just perhaps..In the 1870s the Germans and the French hated each other..They do not hate each other now..They get along..without war.
Yes, it took time..

Instead of War..Kennedy worked things out with the Russian leader Khrushchev. OK..?? could have been war, was not. I remember that one.. We all can have ..hope..

[7962]

9. Why shouldnt Jordan be asked to contribute any land?

After all, their land was part of the original plan to restore Israel. Now, they keep palestinians in refugee camps. Why not offer a slice of territory along with what they already have. Why do none of the other neighboring countries offer help? Do they not care about the plight of the palestinians?

[Comrade Grumpy]

14. The Palestinians have land. But it's being occupied.

All the rest of your post is an attempted diversion.

[7962]

15. No its not. They could use more land.

Whats being "occupied" depends on who you ask. If its the 67 borders, tough shit. You lose a war, you lose land.
The fact is NONE of the other Arab states give a rats ass about the palestinians or they'd be offering a lot more help to them instead of ignoring them. Even Egypt

[geek tragedy]

22. If Israel is keeping all of that land, then it

has two choices:

1) give everyone living there full legal equality including the right to vote:

2) become an abomination of an apartheid state that will eventually and deservedly perish

[7962]

25. Israeli Arabs are able to vote now. Even WOMEN! And some have even held govt posts.

There's no way in hell the opposite would be allowed in a Muslim country.
As long as the palestinians keep supporting leaders who call for the complete removal of Israel, then they get what they pay for.
The palestinians are a problem that no one in the Arab world wants to deal with either, as evidenced by their unwillingness to do anything much up to this point. The Egypt Israel agreement from the Carter years shows there can be peace as long as there are TWO parties that WANT it. Right now, the palestinians want sympathy not peace.

[geek tragedy]

26. "The Palestinians are a problem"

No, they are human beings who have every single human right that Israelis do.

Your dehumanizing rhetoric is all too common amongst the pro-Israel mindset-you all don't view them as human beings, but rather as pests, orcs even.

[7962]

28. If your desire is to wipe another country from the face of the earth, you deserve what you get.

Stop associating with terrorists and learn to live in at least the 20th century, if not the 21st.
Like I said, Egypt used to preach the destruction of Israel, now they help them with security. So it shows that it CAN be done.
The palestinians do not want it. So they continue to suffer. Maybe one day they will wake up and do what Egypt and Jordan did.
Until then, they'll have to get used to living in the past, when they thought all the Arab nations would over run Israel. Thats never happening. The sooner they realize it, the better for their future.

[geek tragedy]

29. How many Palestinians do you know?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that everything you think you know about Palestinians comes from Zionist/Israeli nationalist/Neocon publications.

[7962]

32. The only ones I've ever met live in the US.

And they (3) left over there for a reason. Their own opinions were that their leadership didnt care about peace. They're right.

I dont need all the //// media to tell me what to "think" about them. I can hear them say it with their own words in their speeches. Go to youtube; its full of speeches longing for the destruction of Israel, proudly boasting about using civilians as shields, praising attacks on schools and busses, etc. I dont need any media, they're stupid enough to say it out loud, just like a stupid klansman would do.
But you can continue to back a losing strategy if thats your preference. Israel will not be defeated by them.

[FarrenH]

47. You use the phrase "The Palestinians"

the way bigots use the phrase "the blacks" and "the homosexuals". White and straight "normals" are all unique human beings. Blacks and gays are an army of clones. Think about that.

[7962]

48. Oh horseshit. I didnt put their name in quotes like you.

Notice I also said the Egyptians, the Israelis, etc. Because what else would I call them but what they are?? What am I supposed to call them? "Those people"? Maybe thats what you're looking for
They're Palestinians!!

[FarrenH]

49. "Israel does X", "The Israeli government", "Netenyahu's government"

Last edited Mon Oct 19, 2015, 02:29 PM - Edit history (5)

"Egypt" or "The Egyptian Government", "The PA", "Hamas"

These are appropriate terms when talking about intention and behaviour in the conflict, because they can be connected to verifiable facts. "The Palestinians want..." cannot, especially not the way you use it. States, governments and political movements can be held to act with single purpose. Entire ethnic groups not. The latter kind of ascription is the language of stereotyping and prejudice. I don't say "Israelis are denying Palestinians the universal right to self determination" and especially not "Jews are...". I say "Israel is denying...".

It's an eliding of distinctions that suits a political position and its certainly not borne out by facts. And yes, it is like saying "the blacks...". Implying that Palestinians are a monolithic mass with singular motive who all harbour a burning desire to destroy Israel (with undertones, from by now ubiquitous anti-Palestinian discourse, of genocidal intent towards Israel's Jews), is the kind of broad-brushing employed by bigots. It's the fruit of racism and orientalism.

"I didn't put it in quotes" - Of course you didn't, you weren't quoting anyone. I, on the other hand, was quoting you and discussing the labels themselves. Hence the quotes

[7962]

52. Well they certainly support leadership that does desire to destroy Israel

And if there WAS a Palestine, you could say "Palestine tries to..." But since theres NOT, theres nothing wrong with saying "the palestinians". People say "The NRA" "The republicans" "The right wing" "The Southerners" "the catholics" etc. The list goes on & your argument is without merit.
My mention of putting it in quotes is because that WOULD change the meaning; as though delegitimizing them. Like saying the "truthers" or "birthers" Most people put them in quotes. Groups that deserve to be delegitimized.

[Comrade Grumpy]

33. It's called the Occupied Territories. Get it?

[7962]

34. Yeah. You lose the war you started, you lose.

And Israel gave up the Sinai as well as a lot of the Golan Heights. They were actually going to give it ALL back, but wiser heads prevailed. Lucky for Israel, because now ISIS controls the Heights that they DID give back.
Look what happened after the Arab nations got their ass whipped a few times; Egypt signs a peace accord which still stands. The 2 countries work together. Jordan did the same. No problems between them.
Palestinians, however, still elect leaders who call for the complete destruction of Israel and fire rockets into the country on a regular basis. If they REALLY WANTED PEACE, they would force out their terrorist representation. They dont. So tough shit for them.
Arabs have the right to vote in Israel & have held govt positions. Would a jew be allowed the same in any Arab country?

[Comrade Grumpy]

35. Egyptians and Jordanians don't live under occupation by a foreign power.

And Palestinians didn't start the wars against Israel; Arab states did.

The Palestinian Authority "governs" the West Bank. It is not a terrorist organization. It's been sitting on its hands for 20 years waiting for that mythical two-state solution. The Israelis are not interested.

Instead, there are now a half-million living on land they stole from Palestinians.

Seriously, what is your solution to this? Perpetual occupation? Deportation of all the Palestinians? Maybe they can be "neutralized," as the word of the day puts it.

I grew up with great sympathy for Israel. After watching Israel's behavior for the past 30 years, that sympathy is but a distant memory.

[7962]

36. I guess i havent reached that point yet.

I think there IS a solution, but none involved are willing to give up anything

[Fast Walker 52]

41. that's propaganda BS

Palestinians have been ripped off for 70 years by Israel. Israel is a rogue state.

[7962]

44. Everything I stated is true. Do you have proof to the contrary?

Israeli Arabs CAN vote. They HAVE held governmental positions. there IS peace between Israel & most neighboring Arab countries. Show me where any of that os false.
You cant. Go bloviate elsehwere

[Scootaloo]

51. Sorry, but you're just completely wrong

Whats being "occupied" depends on who you ask.

Well, let's ask Israel

Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present

over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed.

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/B4085A930E0529C98025649D00410973

If its the 67 borders, tough shit. You lose a war, you lose land.

No, in fact you do not. Territorial exchanges must be agreed to by both parties through treaty. You can't just roll in and say "mine now."

The fact is NONE of the other Arab states give a rats ass about the palestinians or they'd be offering a lot more help to them instead of ignoring them. Even Egypt

The other Arab states' opinions and actions are irrelevant to the occupation being conducted by Israel against Palestine.

[Martin Eden]

11. I agree. The settlers will not be forced to move.

The West Bank is absolutely riddled with Israeli settlements and the roads connecting them. Some settlements have been home to Israeli families for generations. There is no viable Palestinian State without the forcible eviction of large numbers of Israeli settlers from their homes, or for those settlers to accept living under the authority of a sovereign Palestine with no Israeli security force.

Neither of those things are going to happen unless there is a gigantic sea change in the balance of power or in the political equation. I don't see that happening.

If a Two State solution is the official policy of the United States and it is to be a realistic goal that is vigorously pursued, we will have to pressure Israel to abandon its settlements by withholding all aid and joining other nations in enforcing UN resolutions against the settlements.

I'd like to see what would happen if any Democratic candidate (Hillary, for instance) made that a key foreign policy position in their campaign.

[geek tragedy]

10. I don't think there's a happy ending here.

A very substantial majority of Israelis oppose the actual concessions necessary for a Palestinian state. In order for a Palestinian state to happen, 140,000 armed, fanatical settlers would have to be evacuated by an IDF that itself is increasingly comprised of religious extremists.

And the Palestinians, there is barely anything approaching civil society there--just armed factions. The only Palestinian that has credibility amongst his own people sufficient to sign off on a peace deal is sitting in an Israeli prison.

The Palestinian Authority does two things, primarily:

1) Protect Israelis from Palestinians;
2) collects checks for itself.

After Abbas dies, it will implode from internal divisions and a lack of legitimacy amongst the people it's supposed to serve.

[Report1212]

12. Its kind of like saying I want world peace

Obama could of course force this to happen by ending diplomatic protection for israel, imposing sanctions, stopping arms transfers he does none of these things

[7962]

27. Sure, stop supporting one of the few ME countries who doesnt support our demise

Thats a great idea.
Not to mention that would be siding with known terrorist groups, societies that routinely murder anyone just suspected of helping Israel, anti-women policy, the killing of gays, etc.
Yeah, a great idea. And gee, what are the odds that Russia would simply step in to replace us? Marginalizing the US even more? And Russia, caring less about human rights, wouldnt care WHAT Israel did with the palestinian problem. Hell, they might even join in.
Pres Obama isnt an idiot. And he's privy to a lot more info than we are

[cprise]

13. A swiss cheese of bantustans and military checkpoints

for the Palestinians, I presume.

[daleo]

16. It is probably time for a one state solution

Canada was a one state solution, in the 1800s, between English, French and natives. Imperfect as such solutions are, they are better than holding out for solutions that will never happen.

[StoneCarver]

24. A one state solution

would bring the end to Israel. They would have to decide are they a religious state or a democracy (because they would be quickly outnumbered). It's currently an apartheid state, no different than South Africa was. They don't want two states or a single state. The Zionists want a single religious state with only people of the Jewish faith voting. It's just a mess.
Stonecarver

[Martin Eden]

30. Yep.

Without a major change, neither the one state nor two state solutions are viable peaceful options.

Israel, backed by the United States, has the upper hand. West Bank settlers will not be forced to leave their homes, and Jews will not accept an end to the Jewish state by becoming a minority in Greater Israel.

If both sides truly have faith in God and His message of Love, they would find a way to live together and Jerusalem would be an international city of Peace and Brotherhood.

What are the odds in Vegas?

[geek tragedy]

31. Israel will follow the trajectory of South Africa.

Once they lose access to European markets and have difficulties flying into European cities, then their commitment to the current enterprise will be tested.

When is will happen is unclear, whether it will happen is fairly clear.

[Martin Eden]

37. This might happen with the One State solution

Once there is a Greater Israel, then we will see how Apartheid rns its course.

[24601]

18. Queen Victoria was not amused by the Civil War and, along with the Confederate traitor scum, said

that only a two-state solution would bring peace.

Abraham Lincoln told her that, as the leader of an Imperialist Foreign Power, she had no vote in the matter...period.

[aceofblades]

20. False equivocation

And it ignores the differences , both practically and historically between a civil war based on secession and alternate land claims going back thousands of years.

Nations don't have a vote in the matter per-se(outside of international resolutions) but they can control which countries they recognize and which ones they financially support. That's the legal basis of all of these discussion, full stop.

And another difference, after the war, southern citizens from secessionist states were recognized as united states citizens with the same inherent constitutional rights. Not the case in the Israel-Palestine situation especially as the current Israeli leadership does not want to be Lincoln to any great extent in your example.

[geek tragedy]

23. Okay, give the Palestinians the right to vote

and problem solved.

[NobodyHere]

38. Palestinians want to destroy Israel

Why should Israel give them anything?

[Fast Walker 52]

39. that's bullshit-- hasbara propaganda bullshit

If anything, lately, it seems that Israel is intent on destroying the Palestinians.

[Ash_F]

45. How would you destroy a country by giving people suffrage?

USA and South Africa seem better off to me.

[geek tragedy]

46. So you support apartheid then and

are providing an excuse to support apartheid.

And you really can't claim otherwise.

[6chars]

19. What would the two states be like?

Would frustrated extremist settlers lead one side and frustrated Islamic terrorists the other? I think even with two states, a prerequisite for success is having democratically elected governments that are committed to the peace.just declaring a border won't do it. The success scenario is possible, but would take a lot of work before and after any agreement.

[Fast Walker 52]

40. the Israelis will need to give land back to the palestinians that they have stolen

The status quo for the past 20 years, at minimum, is insanity.

Israel is a modern day version of colonialism. The Israelis settlers have stolen land that is not theirs.

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/15/gideon_levy_us_criticizes_settlements_while

[6chars]

42. Is that a response to me?

You seem very knowledgeable. Have you spent time in the region?

[Fast Walker 52]

43. Yes, I guess I was replying to your comment about the settlers.

I haven't been to Israel. Just read a lot about it.

[Sunlei]

21. Let them have their own Country Israel. And cut all the support $.

yes, there are probably a million who work in Israel, give them work permits if they want to continue "jobs" in Israel.