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brooklynite

(94,503 posts)
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 09:47 AM Jan 2016

Trump alleges widespread voter fraud: ‘This voting system is out of control.’

Source: Washington Post

CLAREMONT, N.H. -- Donald Trump described voter fraud as a rampant problem during a rally on Tuesday night, even though the number of proven cases is minuscule.

"Look, you've got to have real security with the voting system," Trump said during a campaign event in western New Hampshire. "This voting system is out of control. You have people, in my opinion, that are voting many, many times. They don't want security, they don't want cards."

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/05/trump-alleges-widespread-voter-fraud-this-voting-system-is-out-of-control/

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Trump alleges widespread voter fraud: ‘This voting system is out of control.’ (Original Post) brooklynite Jan 2016 OP
Already coming up with excuses leftynyc Jan 2016 #1
Although, that wouldn't apply in Iowa, where everyone stands in the same room to vote brooklynite Jan 2016 #2
I think the Republicans have changed their process muriel_volestrangler Jan 2016 #17
The software is only used for reporting the count... brooklynite Jan 2016 #19
Not sure about that... Human101948 Jan 2016 #3
Yep, doesn't matter to his supporters if it's a bold faced lie, they will lap it up at his feet! RKP5637 Jan 2016 #6
He's going to lose Iowa leftynyc Jan 2016 #8
no...*election* fraud, yes. *voter* fraud? No. Studies prove that, too Roland99 Jan 2016 #4
What are you? Some liberal egg-head with studies and facts and gotcha-questions? DetlefK Jan 2016 #10
You are absolutely right tikka Jan 2016 #14
and they've done worse Roland99 Jan 2016 #23
Trump should be worried about his Republican primary votes. Sunlei Jan 2016 #5
Orange hair-on-fire alert BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #7
Jackass. catbyte Jan 2016 #9
We "the people" would like paper and pencil, please. n/t 7wo7rees Jan 2016 #11
WOT randr Jan 2016 #12
Tiny little semantics issue here 90-percent Jan 2016 #13
We have election fraud not voter fraud Botany Jan 2016 #15
You're right, but notice the "in my opinion?" Thav Jan 2016 #20
I'm beginning to think he literally has cards for his campaign stategy. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2016 #16
"You have people, in my opinion, that are voting many, many times." yellowcanine Jan 2016 #18
Liars should not be allowed to run for any office in this country. asjr Jan 2016 #21
he's settting the stage for his eventual loss and to rile up his moron base to go all crazy. nt Javaman Jan 2016 #22
the Post failed to include in the article the statistics from another WP article about voter fraud NoMoreRepugs Jan 2016 #24
even a broken clock SoLeftIAmRight Jan 2016 #25
Trump's got all the right moves. This is what a certain fellow did in Germany as well... PatrickforO Jan 2016 #26
Well then, there's a fix for that: DetlefK Jan 2016 #27
Democrats should work through this year to make sure voters have the ID they need anigbrowl Jan 2016 #33
Getting old nwduke Jan 2016 #28
How does he not wear thin on people? world wide wally Jan 2016 #29
the voter fraud fraud is another talk radio propaganda success certainot Jan 2016 #30
the key words rtracey Jan 2016 #31
Yes, there is fraud in voting results. lark Jan 2016 #32
Well, there IS fraud in the voting system, he is right about that. It is not perpetrated by voters, silvershadow Jan 2016 #34
I submitted it to the truth-o-meter Overly Jan 2016 #35
Republicans account for most cases of voter fraud. Historic NY Jan 2016 #36

muriel_volestrangler

(101,307 posts)
17. I think the Republicans have changed their process
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:36 AM
Jan 2016

so that it's hardly a 'caucus' any more:

Confusion following the 2012 Iowa Republican caucuses resulted in changes planned for 2016. Caucus site reporting will be upgraded and the process for determining Iowa votes at the 2016 Republican National Convention will be more primary-like. As a result of a mandate from the Republican National Committee, anonymous polling at caucus sites will bind delegates in how they will vote at the national convention.
...
Szold said, "We have partnered with Microsoft and they have built us a special app that allows our precinct captains to report data quickly. They can do that right there on their smart phones or tablets or computers and they can do it very accurately because you can see the number you are typing in. Let's say you're reporting the results for Carly Fiorina. When you get to Fiorina's name, you will see the number of votes that you enter next to her name. Then you hit a button and that will be sent."

He added that at the central collection point there will be special algorithms to flag any data that doesn't match up to expectations, so unusual numbers will generate contact with the precinct for confirmation or correction.

"The results will be made available almost in real time. The results will come to us. They will go through that internal check I was talking about and then they will be published on a public website with a map view of Iowa. You will be able to see results at the precinct level."

Szold said that the polling will remain anonymous but the counting of ballots will be done in front of those attending the caucuses.

http://www.chronicletimes.com/story/2242041.html

If they're all standing in the same room to cast a secret vote on a computer, one after the other, though, I suppose that should stop people doing it twice.

brooklynite

(94,503 posts)
19. The software is only used for reporting the count...
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:43 AM
Jan 2016

...Republican vote on secret paper ballots, but they're all in the room together when they do it. Pretty hard for someone to slip extra ballots in.

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
3. Not sure about that...
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 09:51 AM
Jan 2016

but he is tickling another conspiracy theory which his supporters have never been able to support with a shred of evidence. So of course they will cling to him reinforcing their cherished, unsubstantiated beliefs.

RKP5637

(67,104 posts)
6. Yep, doesn't matter to his supporters if it's a bold faced lie, they will lap it up at his feet!
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 09:56 AM
Jan 2016

Damn fools they are! His supporters are useful tools. They are all being had, but too ignorant to get what's going on.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
8. He's going to lose Iowa
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 09:58 AM
Jan 2016

probably to Cruz and he's not used to losing and obviously will take no responsibility for losing. He's already coming with excuses and this wont be the only one he comes up with. Anything to muddy the waters with his brain dead supporters.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
10. What are you? Some liberal egg-head with studies and facts and gotcha-questions?
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:01 AM
Jan 2016

Don't you know that all of science is a huge conspiracy to further the political goals of a secretive cabal who hates America?

tikka

(762 posts)
14. You are absolutely right
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:06 AM
Jan 2016

Trump is partially right in that voting machine are susceptible to tampering. The republicans have tampered with the electronic voting machines to win elections.

Roland99

(53,342 posts)
23. and they've done worse
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:36 AM
Jan 2016

They've made less equipment available in Democratic precincts vs. Republican ones (look at Ohio in 2004)

randr

(12,411 posts)
12. WOT
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:02 AM
Jan 2016

No one could have written the script for this whiner bully better than he plays it out himself. It would take a modern day Shakespeare to come up with a character so perfectly flawed.

90-percent

(6,829 posts)
13. Tiny little semantics issue here
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:02 AM
Jan 2016

VOTING FRAUD - electronic windows OS easily hacked voting machines have defied the will of the voters in the 2000 and 2004 elections.

VOTER FRAUD - when dead people vote and when individuals vote multiple times wit different I.D.'s. THIS IS VIRTUALLY UNHEARD OF AND IS SOMETIMES PROSECUTED, BUT it tends to be voters or officials making a mistake.

Some Rovian Conservative republican think tanks thought this line of propaganda up, and I think a surprising number of people in America think that VOTER FRAUD can turn elections over to the libtards. Hard to do if only .00001% of the vote count can be flipped in this manner.

"Catapulting the propaganda" playbook, chapter 1,852

Why can't we have nice things like wise statesmanlike leaders instead of disturbingly popular BIG LIE fascists?

-90% Jimmy

Botany

(70,496 posts)
15. We have election fraud not voter fraud
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:24 AM
Jan 2016

"You have people, in my opinion, that are voting many, many times." D Trump

Ah, Don in a word no. There was a study that looked at 1 billion votes and the study
found 6 possible cases of people voting twice.

Thav

(946 posts)
20. You're right, but notice the "in my opinion?"
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:19 AM
Jan 2016

It's his opinion that democrats (and only democrats, no republican would ever do it) are voting sometimes 20 or 30 times. Regardless of how much truth you hit him with, he's still stating his opinion.

But he said it, and now it's gospel truth for the GOP.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,174 posts)
16. I'm beginning to think he literally has cards for his campaign stategy.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:35 AM
Jan 2016

Like little note cards of phrases and issues he knows low information, gullible conservatives will eat up and give him fuel in the polls.

He has the Immigrant Card, the Muslim Card, and now he's pulled out the Voter Fraud Card and will play it for all that he's got.

yellowcanine

(35,699 posts)
18. "You have people, in my opinion, that are voting many, many times."
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 10:37 AM
Jan 2016

Well Donald, opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. Even assholes.

asjr

(10,479 posts)
21. Liars should not be allowed to run for any office in this country.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:20 AM
Jan 2016

This man needs to step down if he really believes in our country. He is doing more damage to us than anyone else on the slate. Where was he when the SCOTUS intervened and allowed G. W. Bush to become president when Gore actually won it?

NoMoreRepugs

(9,413 posts)
24. the Post failed to include in the article the statistics from another WP article about voter fraud
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 11:44 AM
Jan 2016

31 credible cases - substantiated claims, not prosecutions, some involving multiple ballots - out
of 1 billion votes cast

those numbers would have pointed out what a LIAR Trump is but oh no, the Post nor any other
credible media outlet can't get in the way of the gravy train that is the 5billion that will be spent
on political ads

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/

so chances of voter fraud are roughly the same as you or I at some point winning a mega lottery

PatrickforO

(14,570 posts)
26. Trump's got all the right moves. This is what a certain fellow did in Germany as well...
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:10 PM
Jan 2016

The next step, of course, will be getting the heavily armed brownshirts out in the streets to crack heads and 'enforce' 'fair' and 'free' elections.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
27. Well then, there's a fix for that:
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:13 PM
Jan 2016

Concerning voter fraud:
Every citizen of the US gets a national ID. No more claiming that you are somebody else. No more hassles what is and what is not an acceptable ID for voting. Problem solved.
A national voter-database. No more voting where you aren't allowed to vote. No more mix-ups whether somebody is on the voter-rolls or got purged from them. Problem solved.

Concerning election fraud:
Those voting-machines age so fast, the electronics go defunct after 5-10 years (that's 2 national elections...), be they touch-screen voting-machines or optical scanners for counting votes from ballots. Instead, streamline all the ballots into pen&paper and count the votes by hand. Cheaper, safer, more transparent. Problem solved.

 

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
33. Democrats should work through this year to make sure voters have the ID they need
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 06:33 PM
Jan 2016

Voter ID laws are typically a discriminatory response to demographic change based on false claims about an epidemic of voter fraud. But unless and until they are ruled unconstitutional they are the law in some states, so instead of waiting for the law to change it's important to use the time between now and the election to make sure people people like seniors, students and the poor are registered to vote at the correct address, have the appropriate ID to get to the polls and so on. Delays on this might impact their ability to vote in primaries and would definitely affect their ability to vote in the general. While Voter ID laws can easily impose an undue burden (especially in places like Alabama where many DMV offices have been shut down in an apparent attempt to disenfranchise voters), we can use the time to help alleviate that burden and help people to get valid ID. After all, there's pretty much no downside to having a valid ID.

I do not really think pen-and-paper voting is going to solve the problems the US has. I come from a country where we do that (Ireland) and it is slow as fuck to count votes, although that's partly because we have a more complex electoral system than most US districts. Still, even in referenda (which are simple yes/no votes) counting them by hand is slooooow. Considering the number of votes people typically cast at election time (President, Congressional Rep, maybe a Senator, state officials, local officials, ballot initiatives, etc. etc.) counting the votes by hand would take weeks because you would have to start over for every race on the ticket. After all you wouldn't want to grab already-counted ballots for President to begin counting votes for a Senate seat in case the result turned out to be close and you needed a recount. So either you have to have a definitive result for each contest before you start counting the votes for the next one, or you have to start giving people a separate ballot sheet for every contest. Where I live that would runt o 40 ro 50 pages of ballot forms that had to be handed out to every voter. It would be a logistical nightmare.

Now I don't mean to dismiss the real problems with electronic voting. But the problem is not that it's electronic as such, it's the lack of transparency. I am not sure what can be done about this. We could switch to open-source software, but that can also be subject to bugs and is vulnerable to hacking. I can think of a completely secure method of voting using blockchain/encryption technology, but there verfiability comes at the expense of secrecy which would be an even worse problem. So while we should definitely reform our electronic voting standards, there's no solution that is guaranteed to be problem-free. People who claim there are technologically bulletproof solutions (whether simple or complex) are simply wrong.

I'm sorry to tell you that paper ballots counted by hand are just as subject to corruption as electronic voting - I remember one election in San Francisco not so long ago where a whole bunch of ballots box lids were found washed up on local beaches, and like most people at the time I didn't find the explanation very compelling: http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Scavenged-ballot-box-lids-haunt-S-F-elections-3302604.php

Also, people on the losing end of elections in the UK and Ireland still complain that the ballots were rigged even if there's no evidence, so no matter what the system is people will always claim that voter fraud is a problem if there is political capital to be made out of it, as Trump is doing. He may not believe it or even care, but he knows his audience is convinced it exists, so he says so to keep the flock together.

nwduke

(350 posts)
28. Getting old
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 12:35 PM
Jan 2016

His shtick is getting very old. Do you repubs really want this dolt with his finger on the nuclear trigger?

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
30. the voter fraud fraud is another talk radio propaganda success
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:14 PM
Jan 2016

and has at least 15 years of talk radio repetition behind it.

it ramped up after the bush election theft to distract from their treason and was then sued to destroy ACORN (the left only noticed the video, which would not have succeeded on its own), sell electronic voting, and pass voter suppression laws in many states.

another hazard of the continuing political disaster of the left giving rw talk radio psyops a free speech free ride.

1200 ignored radio stations will play a big part in more successful election thefts in this country

 

rtracey

(2,062 posts)
31. the key words
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 02:32 PM
Jan 2016

"This voting system is out of control. You have people, in my opinion, that are voting many, many times. They don't want security, they don't want cards."

the key words are in my opinion

lark

(23,094 posts)
32. Yes, there is fraud in voting results.
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 05:57 PM
Jan 2016

But it's not from people fraudulently voting, it's from machines being hacked to switch or delete votes from Democrats. Every time this has been done, it's been by Repugs. Notoriously, the Repug party stole the presidency for GW and did it twice. We need machine security and need laws that any voting machine company can't contribute politically and must make the code common knowledge. They need to be tested, secured and retested. I'm sure The Donald doesn't have a problem with that. He knows that women and minorities won't vote for him so is trying to limit their ability to vote. Yep, in that way he's a typical Repug.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
34. Well, there IS fraud in the voting system, he is right about that. It is not perpetrated by voters,
Wed Jan 6, 2016, 08:36 PM
Jan 2016

however. nt

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