John McCain: “I Don’t Know” If Cruz Is Eligible For Presidency With Canadian Birth

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Buzzfeed

John McCain: “I Don’t Know” If Cruz Is Eligible For Presidency With Canadian Birth

McCain, the Republican nominee in 2008, was born in the Panama Canal Zone when it was a U.S. territory.

posted on Jan. 6, 2016, at 7:28 p.m.

Andrew Kaczynski

Arizona Sen. John McCain said he doesn’t know if the Canadian-born Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas is eligible to be president, saying the Supreme Court might have to decide if Cruz is eligible to be president.

“I don’t know the answer to that,” said McCain on the Chris Merrill Show on KFYI550 on Wednesday of Cruz’s eligibility. “I know it came up in my race because I was born in Panama, but I was born in the Canal Zone which is a territory. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona when it was a territory when he ran in 1964.”

Cruz was a U.S. citizen at birth; his mother was a U.S. citizen living in Canada at the time.
In an interview with the Washington Post on Tuesday, Donald Trump said Ted Cruz’s Canadian birth would be a “big problem” for the Republican Party. Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul added on Wednesday that he was not sure if Cruz was eligible to be president of the United States, either. (Both men previously had said it was not an issue.)

“Yeah, it was a U.S. military base,” continued McCain about his own birth. “That’s different from being born on foreign soil so I think there is a question. I am not a Constitutional scholar on that, but I think it’s worth looking into. I don’t think it’s illegitimate to look into it.”


Read more: http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/john-mccain-i-dont-know-if-cruz-is-eligible-for-presidency-w#.bh4b72dd1

[onehandle]

1. Ooh! Ooh! I know the answer!

No.

[anigbrowl]

4. Don't you mean yes?

Ted Cruz makes my skin crawl, but he's unquestionably a natural born US citizen. Maybe McCain is just fucking with him out of personal dislike.

[Reter]

6. It's definitely not unquestionably if it's never been decided

To me he's about 85 to 90% natural born, but that 10 to 15% makes it a tad bit questionable.

[anigbrowl]

9. Please see #3 for why I think you're mistaken. nt

[840high]

11. He is eligible. No question.

[merrily]

28. Not unquestionable at all. This is a constitutional issue.

Nothing in the Constitution defines "natural born citizen."The only thing the SCOTUS has said on this is to the effect that being born in the US satisfies the Constitutional requirement, and even that was only a dictum.

McCain's two parents were citizens and they were in Panama because his father was serving in the US military and even his status was not unquestionable. Congress passed a resolution about it, even though that would not overrule any SCOTUS decision anyway.

The SCOTUS may say one parent being a US citizen alone satisfies the requirement or it may not, but it's far from unquestionable.

However, what is really going on here, IMO, is old guard Republicans squeezing out Cruz and Trump because they think they are unelectable in the general and Cruz can be smeared with this.

[Frank Cannon]

42. Not if his mother renounced her US citizenship before his birth.

And how do we know she didn't do that? WE NEED PROOF, I TELL YOU! PROOF!!

MR. CRUZ, RELEASE THAT BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!1!1

[Fuddnik]

13. But, he knows he's a "Wacko Bird".

[NutmegYankee]

17. The answer is obviously yes.

If you are not born a citizen, you have to go through a process called Naturalization to become one. On the other hand, if you were born a citizen by parents or location, you are already a natural citizen.

The meaning of this part of the constitution (Article II section 1) should be obvious. Notice the exception for those who were citizens at the time of adoption of the Constitution - this obviously addressed the generation that had been born as British citizens.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

[merrily]

29. Maybe. Please see reply 28.

Notice the exception for those who were citizens at the time of adoption of the Constitution - this obviously addressed the generation that had been born as British citizens.

No. No one in the US at the time was a citizen of the US because the US did not exist until the Constitution was ratified. Also, even in 1789. there were people here from all nations. Paul Revere's father, for example, was a French immigrant.

[Xipe Totec]

2. Pot, meet kettle. nt

[Reter]

5. Not exactly

A US military base in Panama is technically US soil, and both his parent were US residents and citizens.Even more so then if your parents are on vacation and have you in Europe.

[Reter]

3. The truth is, none of us know

It's never been decided, because it never had to be. He seems eligible, but that's not up to me.

[anigbrowl]

8. We really do

Would you take the word of two former solicitors-general of the United States, writing in the Harvard Law Review? http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/03/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/

The argument about having to be born inside the boundaries of the US was of course used by some conservatives against Obama. Being an immigrant myself I'm quite interested in this question. The argument is rooted in the theories of Emer de Vattel, a Swiss scholar who laid the foundations of international law with a book called The Law of Nations, which some conservatives like to cite as 'natural law'. The Founders and Framers of the Constitution were certainly familiar with Vattel, and IIRC George Washington had a signed copy of the book mentioned above. But it's not precedent, and as soon as you see de Vattel's name mentioned to support the theory that you have to be born within the USA, you can safely stop reading and assume the rest of the article is bunk.

In fact, as a general rule when you see the phrase 'natural law' you can expect it to be followed by some scheme for doing an end run around a bunch of Supreme Court decisions the author doesn't like, typically the older the better. I hear it most often from Nativists and to a lesser degree from libertarians.

There is an ongoing cultural conflict between those who think out legal system derives from and should be more influenced by civil law and French legal traditions in particular (presumably most often made by people descended from French colonists) and those who point to the English Common Law as laying the ground for US law (pretty much everyone else). I am of course wildly simplifying here, it's not possible to sum up the American legal tradition in three paragraphs. If yo are interested in this sort of thing, I heartily recommend Richard Posner's book How Judges Think.

[merrily]

30. No, we really don't. The opinion of a Solicitor General does not equal a SCOTUS opinion and only a

SCOTUS opinion can settle the issue definitively. Please see Reply 28.

The operative phrase is not "natural law," but natural born," the language used in the Constitution. I don't know anyone who thinks federal law is French civil law. That's the state of Louisiana. In each of the 13 original colonies, English law, both statutory and common law (judge made law) as it existed under Queen Elizabeth I was formally adopted as state law.

[libdem4life]

7. I find it stunning that no one seems to know...that a Court would have to interpret it? Amazing.

[MosheFeingold]

23. A number of lower courts have ruled

During the various anti-Obama efforts

Basically, they said it was a moot point whether or not Obama was born in Kenya because mom was a USA citizen.

Such has been the law since ~1790 or so.

I have posted that I think McCain was just being an asshole a couple of times, and now I'm rapidly believing this was a straw man to make it look like the Republican Elite hate Cruz. They see the polls, know Cruz is going to be the Repug nominee, and are trying to add to Cruz's anti-establishment bona fides in order to capture the Trump voters (who consist of a fair number of previous non-voters and Reagan Democrats).

[merrily]

32. I said something similar in my Reply 28 about discrediting Cruz.

As you know, laws since 1790 were not interpreting Article II language and the SCOTUS can overrule the lower courts. However, my guess is that it will stay with the tradition.

[merrily]

31. See Reply 28, and MosheFeingold's reply as to lower courts.

Of course, the SCOTUS could overrule lower courts, but I don't think it will.

[Vogon_Glory]

10. The Calgary Kid Gets Some Comeuppance

Watching Cruz get smacked with birther stuff of his own is a pleasure. Cruz has been a grandstander he-diva almost since he was sworn in. I have little sympathy for the Texas Repuds who voted for him and even less for the Lone Star idiots who will vote for him in 2018.

I voted for Texas Democrat Paul Sadler in 2012 and I KNOW I voted for the better man for the job of US Senator from the state of Texas.

[6000eliot]

12. Boy, the Repubs really do hate this guy, don't they?

[MosheFeingold]

21. It's his schtick, actually.

Being hated by the likes of McConnel and McCain is a good thing, for anyone really.

It's really a good strategy. Be a Republican but hated by Republicans.

[merrily]

36. I think it's their perception of his electability. I think they are on a mission

to stop both him and Trump.

Purest speculation: They want Jeb.

BTW, I love it when you post!

[MosheFeingold]

41. Thank you

I needed that. I got a post hidden yesterday because I was pointing out that media censorship of race of criminal suspects (but generally only when said suspects were not white) actually created racism by fulfilling the suspicions of people who think the media lies. It was a subtle point and admittedly not my best drafting, so the misunderstanding was my fault, but I had no way of clarifying the matter because I was abruptly locked out of the thread.

Anyway, it really discouraged me. Coupled with the fact that anti-Jewish posters are left to prattle their merry nonsense unimpinged, I almost left the board.

So, thank you.

And, back on topic, I agree with your posts on this.

As a practical matter, the courts will avoid this like they should (and did with Obama) with standing objections to plaintiffs.

Then they will defer to Congress (which will do just what it did with McCain), which they should also do.

[merrily]

44. You are most welcome.

Racism, sexism and anti-Semitism are always issues about which people feel strongly and all three are implicated in the current primary, about which everyone here feels strongly.

The DU jury system is not consistent. And I do know of at least one instance in which someone was banned for an anti-Semitic post. All you can do is alert when you see something that you think is bigoted and hope the jury sees it your way.

It's a flaw in the system that's become a real problem. The only way I can think of is to get the SCOTUS a court to decide is to wait until someone becomes President, then wait to see if something happens that can be taken to court. It would have to be something an employee refusing to follow a President's orders, getting fired, then going to court over the firing.

But I agree: I doubt the SCOTUS will rule against a President unless it's a Schwartzenegger situation--born in another country, with neither parent being an American citizen.

[PSPS]

14. Didn't McCain go to school as a child?

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

15. According to his bio he attended 20 schools

IOW, standard military brat stuff.

What interests me is that McCain was born in a military hospital and grew up in a military family. He went to the Naval Academy and then served in the Navy until 1981. He ran for the Senate in 1982 and has been there ever since.

In my opinion, the man has spent his whole life sucking at the government teat, yet he has the audacity to complain about Obamacare and other government programs that help the average citizen.

Another Republican hypocrite.

[underpants]

27. His father and grandfather were Admirals

McCain got into Annapolis as a legacy and acted like it. He was a horrible student. Sound like W? It should.

[trillion]

16. So if the republicans get a republican winner they'll still go birther on his arse?

[merrily]

39. No, but they will try to make sure neither Trump nor Cruz is the nominee.

[leftynyc]

18. As I understand it

There are only two categories of citizens - natural born and naturalized. If Cruz wasn't ever naturalized, then he was born an American citizen and is eligible.

[Seedersandleechers]

19. According to right wing think

Obama wasn't a citizen because he was born in Kenya to a US citizen mother, but, Cruz is a citizen because he was born in Canada to a US citizen mother?

[MosheFeingold]

20. McCain is the worst kind of partisan hack

He met me for the first time 1,000 times when I worked as a Congressional staffer. He probably saw me every week for 30 years.

One time he introduced himself twice to me within the span of 40 minutes.

Complete arrogant asshole.

I would compare and contrast him with Ted Kennedy who not only knew my name, knew what Scotch I drink, knew and cared about my family, down to the names of grandchildren. He showed up with cigars when a my son had a baby, and I hadn't told anyone but my immediate staff. (And yes, we smoked them right in a government building under a no smoking sign.)

[Gawdless Pinko Lib]

22. I must Confess

After enduring Trump's relentless stupidity regarding Obama's birth certificate, I am high on schadenfreude that it's now being directed at a sleazoid Republican who may actually be worse than The Donald Himself!

[JoePhilly]

24. Ha ha!!

[yellowcanine]

25. No one ever accused McCain of being the sharpest tool in the toolbox.

[underpants]

26. says the guy born in Panama

[yeoman6987]

34. He's a complete jerk

But being born on a base is 100 percent different then being born in another country not supporting America.

[underpants]

43. I know the Senate gave him cover on that

but I sincerely doubt a second generation Admiral allowed his wife to give birth in a 1936 Naval hospital in Panama with the rabble. Just my opinion.

[yeoman6987]

45. That's certainly a good point.

[Paladin]

33. Reap what you sew, Cruz.

This is the sort of thing that happens, when you make a studied effort to piss off everybody in Washington, D.C.---and you succeed in doing so. Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.

[Gothmog]

35. McCain is having fun with Carnival Cruz

[restorefreedom]

37. when did mccain start working for trump?

this is a non issue

and another attempt by the establishment to get the "insurgents" candidates out of the way

shameful and more proof that this election is not d vs r, but oligarchy vs everyone else

[Nitram]

38. Of course he's a natural-born citizen.

His mother was an American citizen. Case closed.

[The Second Stone]

40. We can clear this up by looking at his long form birth certificate

and conducting a misleadingly edited interview with his grandmother, accusing his father of various heresies and looking in the Calgary birth announcements for the day he was born. I'm pretty sure that he was adopted and has no American DNA except Joe McCarthy's.