'Panic' as Europe faces demise over refugees, top officials say

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Source: AFP

DAVOS (SWITZERLAND) (AFP) - Time is running out to solve Europe's refugee crisis with the unity of the continent hanging in the balance, top officials at the elite World Economic Forum in Davos said Friday.

Discussions about the waves of refugees still making their way to Europe were on many people's lips in the Swiss ski resort, with opinions ranging from calls for an ageing Europe to seize an opportunity to stark warnings of impending disaster.

"We have a few weeks to concretely deliver our options... otherwise you have country-by-country solutions (and that is) the beginning of the dismantling for sure," Emmanuel Macron, the French economy minister, told an audience of billionaires and business leaders.

...

Macron's bleak assessment followed a warning by Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, who said Europe only had six to eight weeks left to solve the refugee problem. "When spring comes and the numbers quadruple, we cannot as the EU cope with the numbers any longer," Rutte said.

Read more: http://www.france24.com/en/20160122-panic-europe-faces-demise-over-refugees-top-officials-say

[Dawson Leery]

1. kick

[virgogal]

2. It's getting very ugly over there. Very sad for all.

[7962]

3. There are many who would like to see the European identity disappear

Continuing to allow a flood of people in when there are few jobs for them and they have no desire to assimilate WILL spell disaster.

Immigration has always worked in this country because we controlled the numbers coming in to make it easier to absorb them. The same thing will happen here if we abandon that principal.

[Marty McGraw]

6. ...Immigration has always worked

Lived in So. Calif. most my life, haven't seen that as much. Most from many business's skirting the law in search of cheap to near slave labor and are the true problem.

[7962]

14. Well, we're abandoning the principals we used to go by.

You're right about the cheap labor. It hurts black America worse than anyone else, yet theres no big push to control it better. But if we allow it to happen like its happening in Europe, the same problems they're having will come here on a bigger scale

[Akicita]

41. Massive immigration by foreign peoples did not work too well for Native Americans.

[Marty McGraw]

48. Not at all....

('-')

[bemildred]

10. The USA never did fuck all about absorbing immigrants.

We had a whole continent to fill up once we drove the natives out and we just let them have at it.

[Drahthaardogs]

11. Unless you were Mexican, Italian, or Asian.

Then they only let you in if they needed cheap labor. Even passed laws about the numbers they let in and built big fences.

In the19 80's when the irish were flooding over here illegally, no one said a damned thing. Hell, there are between 10,000-20,000 illegal irish in Boston right now. How come we never hear anything about them?

In this country, it is all about the color of your skin.

[7962]

13. Yeah, right. Thousands are the same as millions

We've always had some come illegally from everywhere. But not by the millions or hundreds of thousands over a short time. We're talking about the way its happening in Europe right now. Thats not the way it used to be here and its not the way it is today.
And in the old days you had to have a sponsor. Thats the only way my grandfather was allowed to come here

You really dont think there would be a major problem here if we were to allow the same proportion of people to flow in as the Europeans? Please.

[bemildred]

17. Maybe starting a regional war right on your doorstep was a mistake?

This all goes back to the Dim Son and Iraq, but the Yurpean leaders have been remarkably feckless and obedient to the Dim Son's stupid ideas, and they didn't learn from Afghanistan and Iraq either, fuck yeah, let's blow up Libya too, and Syria, and Yemen. How about a war in Ukraine too? Have we left anybody out?

And then expecting the Sultan Erdogan to sit on them indefinitely, all those refugees, that was a mistake too.

[EX500rider]

19. "How about a war in Ukraine too?" Sorry, cookies or not, that one's all on Russia.

[bemildred]

20. I'm sure that will help the Europeans. nt

[EX500rider]

22. Are you saying France/Europe has a problem with too many Ukrainian refugees?

[bemildred]

24. Are you saying holding the moral high ground in Ukraine is worth diddly squat to the EU now? nt

[EX500rider]

25. All I am saying is you implied the west was to blame for the Ukrainian war when it's Russian troops.

[bemildred]

26. No, that was you.

I was talking about wars on the European periphery, and how they are a bad idea. I don't really give a shit who is to blame, we are all to blame, and we all pay.

[EX500rider]

28. Sorry, I could have sworn you said this:

This all goes back to the Dim Son and Iraq, but the Yurpean leaders have been remarkably feckless and obedient to the Dim Son's stupid ideas, and they didn't learn from Afghanistan and Iraq either, fuck yeah, let's blow up Libya too, and Syria, and Yemen. How about a war in Ukraine too?

Didn't see any mention of Putin there, or how the Europeans were at all capable of preventing Putin from invading the Ukraine.

[bemildred]

29. Right, that was you.

You go on about that if you want to, it's not what I was talking about.

[7962]

32. Yet you brought up Ukraine. And you miss another big point as well,

a large number of these "refugees" arent even coming from Iraq, Syria & Afghanistan. A lot of them are not war refugees.
As for Libya, were we supposed to step in and help keep Ghadaffi in power?

[bemildred]

34. Good. Have at it. Lay it all out. nt

[Drahthaardogs]

36. Was that my point?

No. That was not my point. My point was immigration in this country has always had a racial bias. You do realize that they passed a law to prohibit italians and greeks from immigrating to America back when everyone else was coming in freely, right? It specifically targeted southern europeans but left out northern europeans.

[7962]

47. You never heard of "Irish need not apply"?

Theres been plenty discrimination to go around!

[840high]

4. kick

[Dems to Win]

5. I have no confidence they'll get it together

Tough times, for sure

[flamingdem]

7. Major change

on the horizon, let's hope for balance.

[CJCRANE]

8. Stick a fork in the EU

break it up and give the power back to its constituent countries.

[smirkymonkey]

9. I agree. Unfortunately, it's been a disaster.

And will continue to be so until they break it up again.

[FLPanhandle]

12. This is a self inflicted wound

Why the leaders couldn't see this disaster coming when everyone else could see the writing on the wall is beyond me.

Merkel will be known as the one who brought down the EU.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

30. Hmm. I disagree.

The REAL culprit is George W. Bush.

Had he not destroyed Iraq, made Afghanistan even more unstable, and shat upon the rest of the middle east, there would be no refuge crisis.

[FLPanhandle]

31. There is no refugee crisis if Europe had kept their borders closed.

The EU governments can't control what GWB did, but they can control their borders and deport illegal immigrants.

This "come on, we will take you all" approach made for even more immigrants.

Everyone saw were that approach would lead and it did.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

35. Excuse me?

Sorry, bad logic. The refuge crisis was spawned by US policies of war war, not jaw, jaw. The fact that many of them were attracted to the obvious wealth and security of Europe did not "Create" some crisis. Their homes were destroyed. Their families raped, shot, detained. Their businesses shattered. What Boy George did was to create the mess. Sadly, we have been leaving it to the EU to try to respond humanely.

[FLPanhandle]

39. The topic was the refugee crisis in EUROPE.

Yes, the EU governments tried to respond humanely but it was a bad decision to open the doors wide.

That was not in the best interest & safety of the citizens that elected them.

They created the EUROPEAN refugee crisis and can only blame themselves when the results were obvious from the beginning that their approach would lead to disaster.

[CJCRANE]

42. Merkel unilaterally announced that Germany could take an unlimited number of Syrian refugees

without consulting her government, her people or the rest of the EU.

She then voided the Dublin protocol to allow masses of refugees to be expedited straight to Germany.

She is either insane or has a hidden agenda or both.

[pampango]

15. Putin and the European far-right will be eternally grateful to the refugees if they can end the EU.

The far-right has hated the EU and Muslims (before them they hated Jews) for decades. Bring back nationalism and closed borders in Europe. European history shows that nothing bad can happen from that.

[FLPanhandle]

21. It's a lesson for all governments

In no way was opening the floodgates to massive amounts of immigrants in any way in the best interests & safety of their own citizens.

Ignore your own citizens and they will remove you from power.

They are handing the EU to the far right on a sliver platter through their own stupidity and lack of concern.

[pampango]

38. "Ignore your own citizens and they will remove you from power." Democracy at work.

Markell may learn that the hard way.

They are handing the EU to the far right on a sliver platter through their own stupidity and lack of concern.

I hope you are wrong but expect you are right. When the far-right comes to power in any country there will be no more refugees entering.

Germany, Sweden (twice as many refugees per capita as Germany) and other countries were right to be generous towards refugees (liberals generally support that) but not to the point of "stupidity".

[DFW]

43. Ignoring their own citizens is their greatest mistake

Europe is densely populated, and its citizens on an average better informed than Americans (no Fox Noise there). They listen to extremists only when a sitting government makes a horrendous mistake or does harm to a majority of its people.

The far right, nearly extinct 15 years ago,was handed a rebirth it neither deserved nor expected. But they won't pass up this opportunity.

[Depaysement]

16. The EU

The great capitalist wet dream to undermine "socialism."

What goes around comes around.

[pampango]

18. If the world's strongest middle class and best distribution of income is a "capitalist wet dream",

Last edited Sat Jan 23, 2016, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

you have a more upbeat image of capitalism than I do. Or is the EU's success at creating a strong middle class exactly what is 'undermining socialism'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

[Depaysement]

23. Europe had a strong middle class before the EU

The EU, more specifically the Euro, was expressly designed to stop socialism of any stripe. It "succeeded."

[bemildred]

27. +1. nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. While the EU took shape 23 years ago, the beginnings actually go back to

the end of WWII.

Churchill often wrote about the need for the creation of the United States of Europe. Others, in France, Italy, Belgium, Spain, and eventually Germany, agreed. The initial economic treaties were created and controlled the production coal and steel. Other treaties expanded their agreements to other products, including food products. By the time that the actual EU was born, in 1993, a great deal of their economies were already seriously integrated. These agreements did to Europe what our Commerce Clause did to our USA's state economies. By preventing tariffs or legislation that would adversely affect another country's exports to a euro nation, they ended up cooperating and growing together.

In the US, litigation and Supreme Court rulings applied the Commerce clause across the states. IN Europe, treaties and agreements achieved the same result. The creation of a unified currency was simply the last logical step in that process.

[pampango]

37. Liberals created the strong middle class and an open Europe. Conservatives created neither

and support neither today. The EU was a step on the road to an open, cooperative Europe. Conservatives prefer the old nationalistic, competitive model for Europe. The Euro was a further step toward an open Europe, though many would argue it has proven to be a step too far.

The EU, more specifically the Euro, was expressly designed to stop socialism of any stripe.

If you mean that in the same sense that FDR's New Deal was designed to save capitalism and "stop socialism" by creating a stronger middle class, unions, corporate regulation and safety net, I agree.

[tabasco]

40. That's a fact.

The EU has hurt working people in Europe by keeping wages low. Lots of cheap labor from Eastern Europe flocked into Germany. Immediately, working contracts were re-written with much lower wages.

[DFW]

44. That is not a fact

The EXPANSION of the EU is what kept wages low. Before the EU admitted Portugal, Greece, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria, the economies of the member states were relatively stable. It was the expansion that ruined us.

Admit Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Panama as 6 new States of the USA, and see how long you can maintain calls for a $15 minimum wage when you have 150 million new Americans willing to work for $4 an hour.

[tabasco]

46. The "expansion" is part of the EU, correct?

Please try again.

Even before the inclusion of the countries you mentioned, a worker influx into Germany from Poland, Lithuania, etc., depressed wages.

[DFW]

50. It was undertaken way after the EU was started

It was NOT done with the consent of the citizens of the original EU. They were never consulted or allowed to vote on it.

Therefore, the expansion countries, while legally part of the EU now, were only brought in for the cheap labor, and to benefit a few big companies seeking to profit from it--the same reason some Swiss companies are lobbying for Switzerland to join the EU. In Switzerland, however, things of national importance have to be put to popular referendum, and the Swiss have wisely declined to join. If Germany had held a similar referendum on Bulgaria and Romania, they wouldn't be members even now.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

45. France's Calais port shuts after migrants jump on ferry

France's Calais port shuts after migrants jump on ferry

CALAIS: Northern France's port of Calais was shut down on Saturday (Jan 23) after dozens of migrants boarded a moored ferry in a desperate bid to reach Britain, officials said.

The boarding - a rare occurrence in the heavily guarded port - came after some 2,000 people protested nearby over living conditions in a notoriously squalid camp known as "the Jungle".

"A group of 500 people forced their way through police lines and headed to the port, and 150 people were able to get into the fenced-off area. Of these, a group of some 50 managed to board a ferry," the prefecture, representing the French state, official told AFP.

Operations at Calais, France's main passenger port, were halted, it said.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/france-s-calais-port/2452326.html

[christx30]

49. Boarding a ship without the permission

of her captain? Piracy? I guess it wouldn't be technically, since the ship isn't in international waters.

[yurbud]

51. we should have treated drought in Syria as a humanitarian crisis instead of

an opportunity to get rid of Assad.

Europe is paying the price for our neocon foreign policy.

[Denzil_DC]

53. This.

Among many other missteps.

[yurbud]

54. I wonder how many European leaders are cursing our "leadership" under their breath

and how many will be doing it openly after their next elections.

[Politicub]

52. The unity of the continent?

Those are some powerful refugees if they can bring down the whole of Europe.

I'm guessing the refugees are getting major discrimination lobbed their way based on the actions of a few.

[christx30]

55. Well, they are powerful.

I'm sure none of the decisions that are made are being made lightly. But you have had some serious incidents have received a lot of attention. The native population is screaming at their leaders to do something about this seemingly unstoppable huge wave of humanity streaming across their borders. Countries like Hungary are listening to their people and putting up fences. Germany may finally listen after New Year's Eve and start vetting migrants and deporting criminals.
But different countries with different policies that effect each other on such an epic scale, there is going to be friction. Looks like the friction is killing to Project.