The Latest: Witness saw no police before KKK brawl

[Judi Lynn]

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:54 AM - Edit history (2)

Source: Associated Press

The Latest: Witness saw no police before KKK brawl

Updated 6:59 pm, Saturday, February 27, 2016





. . .

:36 p.m.

A university researcher who witnessed the violent attack between Ku Klux Klan members and counter-protesters says he saw no uniformed police at an Anaheim park 3 miles from Disneyland when the brawl began.

Brian Levin, director of California State University, San Bernardino's Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism, says KKK members were quickly attacked by counter-protesters after arriving at Pearson Park Saturday afternoon.

Levin says he feared the Klansmen would be stomped to death.

Anaheim police had notified the public about the planned KKK protest Friday and said they would be "monitoring the situation for any violations of law." The department also said that while the group's signs and fliers might be controversial, they are protected by the First Amendment.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/The-Latest-13-in-custody-after-violence-at-KKK-6858368.php

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Who seems more sophisticated? Brother Theodore, above? Or this fine KKK Grand Dragon?

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[shenmue]

1. What a stupid outfit

[valerief]

2. Half NASCAR, half security guard. nt

[cheapdate]

3. I'm 99.9% okay with this.

[jtuck004]

11. So is Donald Trump, when the jackboot is on the other foot. n/t

[Taitertots]

18. We're all going to rapidly find ourselves getting stomped by "counter protestors" if we support this

I'm 100% not OK with that.

[Yo_Mama]

20. I'm not. A rule of laws, not men, says you have to defend the rights of others.

Otherwise, the lynch mob that turns up one day is going to be for you or yours.

Defending the right of these people to go public with their disgustingness is not about their safety - it's about ensuring their ideology does not win.

They are really about institutionalized violence, when it comes down to it.

[cheapdate]

25. I'm not a role model.

I won't pretend it doesn't give me satisfaction to see Klansmen, Nazis, and fascists get bloodied in the streets by private citizens.

The law gives these hateful Klansmen the right to parade their hateful ideology in the streets. The law can't always protect them from the righteous rejection of their hateful ideology in the only language it understands.

[MrScorpio]

4. What the fuck did the Klan think was going to happen?

This is 2016, not 1916, motherfuckers.

Ain't no-one got time for their bullshit.

[Fairgo]

5. Well, at some point, there is a cascade

and it will be fearsome indeed. The KKK/neo-nazis are not simply expressing a view point, they are at war. They pivot on the right to free speech as a beard for intimidation...and well, fuck them. Someday they will get the war they want and it will not be pretty. I will sigh and shake my head about the decay of decorum, but i will thumb though the photographs, and smile.

[Milliesmom]

6. KkK sure spends a lot of money

on dumb patches and emblems to make themselves look important/dumber

[bluestateguy]

7. The KKK is the deadliest terrorist organization in US history

And I view any attack on the KKK, no matter what the circumstances, as an act of self-defense.

I think we would say the same thing if Al Qaeda or ISIS were marching in the streets of the US.

[branford]

8. No.

In fact, if an individual or group wanted to peacefully demonstrate in support or ISIS or Al Queda they would be constitutionally entitled to do so.

Providing "material support" to terrorist groups is illegal, not just demonstrating on their behalf. The distinction is important.

I actually live directly across from the United Nations. I assure that it is not uncommon for people to publicly demonstrate in favor of some of the most vile and disgusting people and things, and the NYPD properly protects their right to do so, even when they are the targets of the ire.

You really don't understand the nature and extent of the First Amendment and the minimum standards for self-defense anywhere in the country. Never forget that we don't need protection for popular speech, and much of the jurisprudence than permits unpopular speech evolved to protect reviled left-wing groups like communists, or the fact that the ACLU believed that free speech was sufficiently important to represent Nazis in the quest to march in Skokie, and handily won the case.

If you attack someone simply because you don't like their ideas or group membership, you are a violent criminal and will be prosecuted, and as applied to groups like the KKK, you will have deftly made them legitimate victims, lowered yourself to their level, and destroyed any moral authority you might have possessed along with a likely criminal sentence.

[AxionExcel]

9. Well said. Thank you.

The factional wars raging around and about our world so often come down to one testosterone-gagging gang against another. Open factional wars could happen here, and would be utterly ugly.

This time the KKK gang took it on the chin. But with hate and vengeance ruling the day, getting applauded in discussion groups and cheered on with dog whistles by anti-leaders such as the Republican conquer-and-divide tyrants-in-waiting, there will be a next time. We require reason and understanding, also some shared positive goals as a nation beyond finding ways to let the rich get richer. From whence will these healing qualities arise?

[Yo_Mama]

22. No, we would not. At least I wouldn't. And yes, they would draw angry counter-protesters.

Sorry, but without free speech rights decent ideas DON'T win. The strongest, nuttiest people win. And crazy people tend to be drawn towards really strange and violent ideas (this is really true).

Al-Qaeda and ISIS aren't evil organizations because of what they believe - but because of what they DO. Providing material support - sending money, recruiting people to go fight with them, providing them cover to get things that they are not supposed to have - is illegal. But believing that they are right and arguing that they are right is NOT illegal, and cannot be.

Every time someone physically attacks a member of one of these groups that person really tends to legitimize a tenet of their ideas, which always come down to the idea that ideas may be fought or imposed with violence.

We are all free to (and IMO, obliged to by decency) oppose and expose their ideas vocally when they are espoused. But we are not free to beat, murder or otherwise violate the civil rights of individuals who are exercising their civil rights, even when their ideas and their speech is literally VILE.

[Yo_Mama]

24. Legal self-defense has sharp and limited parameters, and you are advocating a crime.

You are really championing ideas that are only slightly different and slightly better than theirs.

I know the KKK is wretched, and whatever ideas they have now, they are going to have racial/ethnic prejudice and bigotry as their basis.

In a free society, people must be allowed to be wrong in peace. Otherwise the rest of us can't be right in peace, and can't build a more functional society.

[The Jungle 1]

10. lessons

One of the lessons of Iraq is how our violence produced a trillion dollar unwinnable war and IS.

I despise the KKK. I despise their history and everything about them. They are terrorist of the worst kind. They don't even have a legitimate issue. All they have is hate.

While it feels real good to hand them some of there terrorism it will not help.

Just like Iraq this brawl will be used to produce more terrorist. You can bet on it.

[Marrah_G]

12. Resorting to violence is never the answer

It's just not. No matter how much someone's views piss you off, in a civilized society you fight back with words, not fists.

[yardwork]

13. Well said. Hi Marrah!

[Marrah_G]

14. Hi sweetie, how you been?

[yardwork]

15. Good. How you?

[Marrah_G]

16. Life is kicking my ass, but I'll survive :)

Haven't been on as much due to the primaries, it gets too nasty for me.

[yardwork]

17. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that things turn around soon.

Hug.

[Yo_Mama]

23. Bad/destructive words and ideas are fought with good/constructive words and ideas.

Otherwise, if it's just a street brawl, then you are really supporting them. They claim they've got the right to violence because their ideas are better. Those who think they have the right to violence because their ideas are better are destroying the argument.

Now, when they use violence, and when they use personal intimidation, then self-defense and calling in the law is utterly legitimate.

[cheyanne]

19. Does anyone know who the anti-Klan protesters were?

Were they an organized group? They arrive an hour before the designated start time.

[starroute]

26. I've been googling any haven't found anything yet

One photo shows a guy with a red/black flag, which is used by anarcho-communists.

There have been a number of confrontations lately in which anti-fascists attacked fascist demonstrations. The largest and most violent have been in England, but there was something in Olympia, WA a couple of months ago.

The thing about anarchists is that they're, well, anarchic. They don't tend to form groups and set up Facebook pages. They just put out the word for people to show up. But I'll see if I can find anything more detailed, because I'm curious myself.

[starroute]

27. Here's a call for a peaceful counter-protest from before it occurred

http://www.ocweekly.com/news/oc-ku-klux-klan-plans-rally-feb-27-in-anaheim-upset-we-treat-them-as-joke-6995832

2/26/16, 4:20 P.M.: The Los Angeles Times is reporting that the Ku Klux Klan rally in Anaheim we reported earlier this week is for reals. Anaheim Police Department spokescop Daron Wyatt told reporter James Queally that the Klukkers told them that about 20 planned to show up TOMORROW at 10 a.m. in Pearson Park (however, Anaheim PD says 1:30—read below). Sources tell the Weekly that a "White Lives Matter Too" sign has already been found at the park, and that the Klan is fearful a bunch of Mexicans are going to show up and kick their asses—hence, the Invisible Empire squealed to the cops.

The Anaheim PD also tweeted out 1:30 p.m. Our suggestion? Get there at 10, grill up some carne asada, and wait. If the KKK shows up then, protest; if not, enjoy some tacos and wait for the fun. . . .

Alright, counter-protestors: You know what to do. Protest PEACEFULLY. Let the racist pendejos have their say. Do NOT try to beat them up and feed into their victim narrative. Let them lynch themselves with their own words, and let the carne asada grill wonderfully, with just a touch of Tecate to tenderize properly. See you there!

[sarisataka]

21. I won't do the Klan the service

of calling them the good guys in this situation but it seems they were not the aggressors. They do have the right to speak their closed, hate filled racist minds.

Given the information we have at this point they were acting legitimately in self defense.