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vkkv

(3,384 posts)
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:38 AM Jun 2016

Omar Mateen Identified As Orlando Club Shooter Authorities say he is an American citizen in his 20s

Source: HuffPo



Mateen, an American citizen in his 20s, acted alone and “very quickly” when he opened fire with what officials described as an assault rifle.

He’s believed to have acted alone. City officials said he was an American citizen, but noted that many of his family members are not.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omar-mateen-identified-orlando-club-shooter_us_575d6f19e4b0ced23ca84a64




Trump's Make America Hate Again is all over this one.

62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Omar Mateen Identified As Orlando Club Shooter Authorities say he is an American citizen in his 20s (Original Post) vkkv Jun 2016 OP
Trump did not cause this. David__77 Jun 2016 #1
Cause this? No. davidthegnome Jun 2016 #6
If he was a Christian, christx30 Jun 2016 #15
I don't think it's the same thing. David__77 Jun 2016 #24
My point is that Trump would be a fool to not jump on this with both feet. christx30 Jun 2016 #30
+10 840high Jun 2016 #54
Regardless of cause... David__77 Jun 2016 #17
And I guess you'll decide what's too radical, right? Bragi Jun 2016 #20
Advocacy of or actually murdering homosexuals is one thing. David__77 Jun 2016 #23
On review... Bragi Jun 2016 #33
It's quite alright. David__77 Jun 2016 #35
+1 King_David Jun 2016 #48
You cannot wipe out an ideology. davidthegnome Jun 2016 #28
Well and honestly said /nt Bragi Jun 2016 #34
not sure that will work with ISIS 6chars Jun 2016 #36
Whatever else they are davidthegnome Jun 2016 #52
+1 King_David Jun 2016 #49
Then its Reagan's fault he got in. Gomez163 Jun 2016 #2
He was Afghan, more likely this was an Islamist attack, not a Trumpist hate crime. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #3
Do you have any evidence, or is this just your way of Making America Great for Everyone? n/t jtuck004 Jun 2016 #4
Oh for fucks sake. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #10
Iron like - that's what I was thinking. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2016 #12
yep, evidence is coming out he was a fundie fucking asshole snooper2 Jun 2016 #26
What evidence? Fundy muslim? Perhaps. It's early days yet. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #37
Here's one: christx30 Jun 2016 #31
I was speaking of intolerance in general. The 'new hate' of the right's words sanction this type of vkkv Jun 2016 #5
Looks like an Islamist hate crime... n/t backscatter712 Jun 2016 #7
Registered Democrat Of Afghan Descent With Firearm License... jtuck004 Jun 2016 #11
Update. ForgoTheConsequence Jun 2016 #19
His father told NBC News that "it had nothing to do with religion", but he was outraged when he saw catbyte Jun 2016 #13
Agh so it was the fault of 2 lovers engaging katsy Jun 2016 #51
I agree completely. David__77 Jun 2016 #18
So do I. 840high Jun 2016 #55
He was born in USA, 1986. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #27
I think they said he was American. Demit Jun 2016 #39
Radical Islam RogerM Jun 2016 #8
Could've been Westboro Baptist askeptic Jun 2016 #25
Westboro isn't going out shooting people. christx30 Jun 2016 #32
This will really be a dilemma for bagger bigots--they hate gay people as much as they hate Muslims. catbyte Jun 2016 #9
Allegedly pledged allegiance to ISIL. ForgoTheConsequence Jun 2016 #14
American citizen? Boudica the Lyoness Jun 2016 #16
tRump has fueled hate Equinox Moon Jun 2016 #21
Born and raised and educated in the USA. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #40
Nope it's all Trumps fault. ileus Jun 2016 #41
Please stop it. Seriously. NT mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2016 #44
no. 840high Jun 2016 #56
Omar Mateen Was Born in NY. TomCADem Jun 2016 #43
I don't think you can blame Trump for this nut tularetom Jun 2016 #22
All religion is a mental disease. tabasco Jun 2016 #29
Which disorder does a symptom of "stereotyping" indicate? NT mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2016 #42
Anyone who believes in invisible beings and allows the invisible beings to control their actions tabasco Jun 2016 #50
Agreed. If one believes in some invisible power that can be prayed to in which to use that power vkkv Jun 2016 #57
Stalin was an athiest. Started a program of supressing religion. christx30 Jun 2016 #59
Stalin was a psychopath. tabasco Jun 2016 #60
No. My argument is that not everyone that believes christx30 Jun 2016 #61
I certainly agree. tabasco Jun 2016 #62
Trump and the NRA encouraged this...it's theirs alone ileus Jun 2016 #38
Just like Paris, huh? nt Dreamer Tatum Jun 2016 #45
No that was 43 and Cheney's fault. ileus Jun 2016 #46
LOL nt Dreamer Tatum Jun 2016 #47
I don't agree to a point. I would say conservative religions and a gun culture are big problems rockfordfile Jun 2016 #58
Its reported he was born in New York in 1986 IronLionZion Jun 2016 #53

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
6. Cause this? No.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:50 AM
Jun 2016

He will, however, attempt to use it for his own benefit - which is... damned sick. Just wait, we will be hearing all about good guys with guns, Muslims, terrorists, how we are hated for our freedoms and need more security, walls, patrols of Muslim neighborhoods and so on and so forth.

Shouldn't be long now before he opens up his mouth and his ass comes out of it.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
15. If he was a Christian,
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:01 PM
Jun 2016

Hillary and DU would be screaming about the homophobic aspect of it, and I would be right there agreeing. Remember the Charleston church shooting? After it happened, there was a rush to destroy all Confederate flags as a symbol of hate because of pictures of the shooter wearing one.
Was that wrong? More or less wrong than Trump saying that Muslims are a danger?

David__77

(23,369 posts)
24. I don't think it's the same thing.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:17 PM
Jun 2016

That said, I also don't think Christianity is the same as Islam. I'm not aware of a major reform Islam that is supportive of homosexuality, let alone is tolerant of it.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
30. My point is that Trump would be a fool to not jump on this with both feet.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:46 PM
Jun 2016

This perfectly fits into his narrative. "Muslim terrorist guns down 50 people in night club". The speeches pretty much write themselves. Just like the church shooting fits "Racist Confederate kills 9 people in Church Shooting".
After the shootings, there was more of a press to get rid of remnants of the confederate days. The stars and bars were removed at courthouses and public land in the south. Graves of and monuments to confederate generals were razed. "Symbols of hatred and racism. Products of a racist past." People that were against getting rid of these things were called racists.
These were things that were in people's mind for years. And every now and then, someone would propose it happen. But it really picked up after the shootings.
It's like this all the time. After Oklahoma, the focus was on white domestic terrorism, militia. After 9/11, it was on Muslim terrorism.

Now we have 50 people killed in Orlando by what appears to be an anti-gay Muslim. It's been called terrorism. The FBI is saying that he may have been an ISIS sympathizer. This is Trump's wheelhouse. This is what he's been talking about every time he floats his name as a presidential candidate. It's been a major part of his platform now that he's (for lack of a better term) a serious candidate for president. Of course he's going to jump on it. There's no way around it.
The Dems need to come out strong against radicalism, but caution against flying off the handle against anyone wearing a Taqyah.

Another article about Omar Mateen. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html


David__77

(23,369 posts)
17. Regardless of cause...
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:02 PM
Jun 2016

I think that radical Islamic ideology and organizations should be completely wiped out. I think the politicians will likely spin this whichever way they think is beneficial.

David__77

(23,369 posts)
35. It's quite alright.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:02 PM
Jun 2016

And I can imagine that this subject is emotionally charged for many if not most, myself included.

I don't think I necessarily have the best answers, nor do I claim to be an expert. I do want organizations and governments that advocate killing and actually do kill people for being homosexual to be opposed by the US government.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
28. You cannot wipe out an ideology.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:29 PM
Jun 2016

At least, not in the way I think you mean. It doesn't work that way.

Yes, the politicians will do their spin - but Trump and those like him... their ignorance, intolerance, bigotry... hatred... it is that kind of poison and rage that creates people like this... tragedies like this. Attempting to wipe out Islamic Ideology and organizations, radical or not, would be a largely futile effort that could not succeed. Particularly if you mean through violence.

Tolerance... acceptance... compassion, love, generosity, understanding... these things will win hearts and minds. These things weaken radicalism, hatred, ignorance and anger. It is cliche to say, but nonetheless true, that hate begets hate. Anger begets anger. This terrible tragedy should not be a call to vengeance and violence... but to reach out to others, to join together with the combined strength of our love and compassion for each other. To educate, to demonstrate, to show that we can live peacefully, that we should... that, for all the world's evil... and today has demonstrated it in a very large way... for all of that, there is great good.

I am angry, too. My initial reaction is also to seek out those who promote this, encourage this and take part... and destroy them. However... it will not work that way. That kind of reaction will end with more bloodshed, more hate, more ignorance, more anger, more suffering. Instead, let us grieve together, come together, and promote the notion of love, of compassion, of understanding, of hope and unity.

These words aren't easy for me, because I feel a lot as you do - but that is not the answer to this.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
36. not sure that will work with ISIS
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:13 PM
Jun 2016

I'm not seeing it at all. If it even had a chance of working, that is, if they had even an ounce of humanity, they wouldn't be the problem they are.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
52. Whatever else they are
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:59 PM
Jun 2016

they are members of the human race. I don't know what the best solution is, I don't know how we might change things, convert hate into love, anger compassion, cruelty into kindness. I do know that it is a worthy effort - and something that we must consider and figure out how to do. This is not a war of attrition that can continue indefinitely.

Maybe ISIS, in particular, will need to be wiped out. That doesn't mean we can't reach out to the Muslim people in general, to people who are hungry, poor, who live in Countries devastated by poverty, war, death, starvation...

That, I think, is how we will win hearts and minds - and how to convince people not to join ISIS, not to become the terrorists or enemies of tomorrow.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
5. I was speaking of intolerance in general. The 'new hate' of the right's words sanction this type of
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:50 AM
Jun 2016

behavior.

You disagree that Trump is feeding escalation by his hate-mongering? Really?


 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
11. Registered Democrat Of Afghan Descent With Firearm License...
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:53 AM
Jun 2016


CBS added that the FBI is currently checking if he was linked to extremists.

According to BBC, Mateen was not on any terrorism watch list, although as CBS also adds Islamic terrorism is being investigated as one of the possible motives behind the mass shooting.



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/orlando-shooting-suspect-identified-omar-mateen-us-citizen

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,868 posts)
19. Update.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:06 PM
Jun 2016

‏@deirdrewalshcnn
Rep Schiff, top Dem on House Intel, says on CNN he was told shooter made pledge of allegiance to ISIL,cautions still early in investigation

catbyte

(34,367 posts)
13. His father told NBC News that "it had nothing to do with religion", but he was outraged when he saw
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:54 AM
Jun 2016

2 men kissing in Miami and that could've triggered this. It sounds like a "twofer". Islamic terrorism and a hate crime.

katsy

(4,246 posts)
51. Agh so it was the fault of 2 lovers engaging
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:57 PM
Jun 2016

In a kiss that flipped out this monster?

Not Islamic ideology and indoctrination of hatred?

No it started with a kiss?

FFS parents of monsters should just stfu and spare us the deflection of blame from their spawn onto the victims.

Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

David__77

(23,369 posts)
18. I agree completely.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:03 PM
Jun 2016

I do not understand any attempt to assign cause to Trump. I believe that this was motivated by Islamist ideology.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
39. I think they said he was American.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:18 PM
Jun 2016

He was born here. Just like the judge from Indiana, whom Trump calls Mexican, is American.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
32. Westboro isn't going out shooting people.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:50 PM
Jun 2016

They are all bluster, meant to invoke a response. I suspect they don't have any real ant-gay sentiments, but know their words incite people to attack, so they can sue. It's how they make their money. "God hates F*gs" is their job, just like "Thank you for calling tech support. My name is Chris, how may I help you?" is mine.

catbyte

(34,367 posts)
9. This will really be a dilemma for bagger bigots--they hate gay people as much as they hate Muslims.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:51 AM
Jun 2016

What will Trump propose now? WWII-style internment camps for Muslim offspring of Middle Eastern parents?

Damn, damn, damn.



ForgoTheConsequence

(4,868 posts)
14. Allegedly pledged allegiance to ISIL.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:57 AM
Jun 2016

Deirdre WalshVerified account
‏@deirdrewalshcnn
Rep Schiff, top Dem on House Intel, says on CNN he was told shooter made pledge of allegiance to ISIL,cautions still early in investigation

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
16. American citizen?
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:01 PM
Jun 2016

I'm a Brit and can become an American citizen tomorrow if I wished. I'll always be a Brit though.

This has nothing to do with Trump. This shit is happening all over the world!

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
22. I don't think you can blame Trump for this nut
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:12 PM
Jun 2016

However I do believe Trump will be on this like a big giant orange fly on a pile of shit.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
50. Anyone who believes in invisible beings and allows the invisible beings to control their actions
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:45 PM
Jun 2016

is possibly schizophrenic but likely just ignorant and gullible.

Stereotyping with sufficient evidence is neither illogical or incorrect, and is otherwise known as "classification."

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
57. Agreed. If one believes in some invisible power that can be prayed to in which to use that power
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:09 PM
Jun 2016

for gain, or even to heal others.. You are STILL NUTS !!!!!!!

Praying to a God is NOT the same as positive thinking which we all know is a must to survive happily.



christx30

(6,241 posts)
59. Stalin was an athiest. Started a program of supressing religion.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:41 PM
Jun 2016

He ended up killing more people than Hitler.
Atheist doesn't always equal good.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
60. Stalin was a psychopath.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:21 PM
Jun 2016

His views on religion are irrelevant.

Is your argument: "Because Stalin was evil, it's okay to believe in invisible entities and allow invisible entities to control lour lives?"

That's funny.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
61. No. My argument is that not everyone that believes
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jun 2016

in a higher power is evil. And not every non-believer is good.
We're all human.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
62. I certainly agree.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:45 PM
Jun 2016

I hope humanity can evolve beyond superstitious beliefs before we destroy ourselves.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
38. Trump and the NRA encouraged this...it's theirs alone
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:18 PM
Jun 2016

And since Trump and the NRA are both supported by Christians, we can easily say this was a Christian/GOP act of terror.


rockfordfile

(8,701 posts)
58. I don't agree to a point. I would say conservative religions and a gun culture are big problems
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:10 PM
Jun 2016

The NRA is far right sleazeball group.

IronLionZion

(45,420 posts)
53. Its reported he was born in New York in 1986
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:10 PM
Jun 2016

anyone from New York who spews hate speech should be deported immediately until we figure this out:

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