Investigators Say Orlando Shooter Showed Few Warning Signs Of Radicalization
Source: NPR
As investigators probe the background of Omar Mateen, whose attack on Pulse nightclub in Orlando left 49 people dead, they say he bore few warning signs of radicalization.
Mateen had allegedly pledged allegiance to ISIS in a 911 call during the attack, as The Two-Way has reported. But as further details emerge about the shooter, investigators say Mateen's profile is more like that of a "typical mass shooter" than an individual radicalized by ISIS, as NPR's Dina Temple-Raston reports.
In fact, intelligence officials and investigators say they're "becoming increasingly convinced that the motive for this attack had very little — or maybe nothing — to do with ISIS."
Speaking on Weekend Edition Saturday, Dina says that al-Qaida and ISIS-inspired attacks tend to follow a different pattern. She explains:
Read more: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/18/482621690/investigators-say-orlando-shooter-showed-few-warning-signs-of-radicalization
More and more this seems to be a hate crime rather than a crime related to radical jihadism.
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scscholar
(2,902 posts)They are at fault.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)
christx30
(6,241 posts)That sounds like a failure of that agency.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)against LGBT.
pnwmom
(108,950 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)People aren't born hating gay people.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I don't know how he did, but shooting up that particular nightclub was telling that he was.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Parents, friends, ministers.
pnwmom
(108,950 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)What are you basing that claim on?
pnwmom
(108,950 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)
AllyCat
(16,129 posts)He was a mentally ill man afraid of himself.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)On what evidence are you basing this assertion?
AllyCat
(16,129 posts)And he was gay, and frequented the club he shot up.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Presumably they would all be not guilty by reason of insanity, based on the construct you've presented.
It also seems strange that you are able to assert as fact that he was gay.
cynzke
(1,254 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:08 AM - Edit history (1)
His Imam relayed that as a boy, Mateen was highly unruly and aggressive towards others. A large bully who couldn't control himself, constantly running around harassing other kids, disrupting the mosque during religious meetings. His co-workers describe Mateen as a very angry man, who would burst out in anger any given moment, cursing at people and things, swearing, punching and throwing things around. Co-workers claimed Mateen was always in a state of anger and frustration over the slightest things. Mateen lost one of his jobs due to his behavior and comments. Ultimately he was turned in to the FBI prompting investigation. He constantly beat up his ex-wife. This was an individual that displayed from early childhood that he had emotional problems. His family failed to recognize or help Mateen. His emotional problems festered unabated, ultimately reaching a breaking point. Mateen reached out for what seemed to be a solution in his sick mind....get a gun and shoot people. A solution that is constantly displayed in our culture and entertainment....have a problem with others, a gun is a tool/remedy. Sane, well adjusted people understand that the violence portrayed in media, entertainment, etc. is purely entertainment, but ill people like Mateen pick up a very different message. It looks like Mateen manifested mental problems early on. He was unable to control or cope with them. They affected every aspect of his life. He was never able to achieve success both in employment or personal relationships. These failures and frustrations in life further angered Mateen. Add possibly being gay in a culture that abhors homosexuality. Mateen was alone with no support or means to cope. He reached the end of his emotional rope, lashing out. We have a hard time understanding or accepting mental illness. Our rational minds find it difficult to understand or accept the irrational. We can not begin to understand how deeply another human being can get so lost, out of control. Experts point out that radical terrorist groups (foreign and domestic) reach out/target these lost souls who feel lost and isolated from society. They seek out these loners who find comfort and support when they join up. Then the leaders manipulate these emotionally vulnerable loners, convincing them that the outside world is responsible for the pain, humiliation and self-loathing they feel.
brett_jv
(1,245 posts)I struggled through it though as there's a lot of good stuff. I agree, til the implication you make at the end.
Is there evidence this guy was in 'contacted' or 'influenced directly' ... by any anyone from any Radical Terrorist Group?
7962
(11,841 posts)This guy showed a leaning towards Islamist ideology ever since he was in school. His schoolmates told how he laughed about 9/11. his father became a Taliban supporter. His wife knew of his plans. he made the no fly list more than once. The FBI Director says he had a history of radical statements. His co workers said he claimed he had family associations with terror groups. While that was likely a lie, why would he say it if he didnt wish it were true.
And many other things about this guy point to him having sympathetic leanings to terror groups. ISIS? who knows. Does it really matter which one or any in particular? Its a terrorist attack AND a hate crime
Does everyone want to eagerly forget that many Islamic countries will imprison or kill you for being gay?
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Muslim believes that. Especially those living in places other than those countries.
He was investigated by the FBI twice for saying he knew the Boston bombers and something else similar. The FBI could find no evidence of any of that. Why did he make these claims? All we can do is speculate.
I do agree that it was a terrorist attack and a hate crime against LGBT, I haven't seen people here saying otherwise.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Muslims overwhelmingly say that homosexual behavior is morally wrong, including three-quarters or more in 33 of the 36 countries where the question was asked.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-morality/
pnwmom
(108,950 posts)in many religions.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)No question about that.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)"We know that during the attack the gunman posted messages on Facebook saying he was doing this on behalf of ISIS. But officials have yet to find any of the precursors usually associated with radicalization. They've interviewed dozens of people who either knew him or had contact with Mateen. "And they say that they've yet to find any indication that he became noticeably more religious, which is one of the indicators of radicalization. He still was going to the same mosque. The way he dressed didn't change. His relationship with his family didn't change in any way. And these are all typically warning signs that parents and friends and educators are told to look for if they're worried that someone they're close to is radicalizing."
She adds "this isn't science," but so far the signs of radicalization aren't there, which has led investigators to wonder whether the 29-year-old invoked the name of ISIS to garner more publicity for his deadly attack.
(clip)
Investigators have also been struck by "how closely Mateen's biography adheres to profiles that they associate with typical mass shooters," Dina adds:
"He was bullied as a kid in school. He had well-documented behavioral problems. He was aggressive toward other kids. As he got older, things didn't get much better. He took steroids, he jumped from job to job, he had a history of domestic violence. And all these things together fit into a mass shooter's profile."
And declaring he did this for al Qaeda and ISIS is very odd since those 2 groups are fighting with each other. It strikes most of us that he declared that for publicity, not because it was in any way true.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)There are a variety of different sources with analysis from people who reach different conclusions.
For instance, the killer was investigated by the FBI for ten months years prior to these attacks for statements related to support for jihadist groups and for possible linkage to an Islamic terrorists who committed a suicide attack in Syria.
I think one could put together whatever narrative one wanted to based on the wide variety of information floating around this case right now.
My argument is that there is a lot still unknown, and it is too early to make definitive statements about potential motives.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)some other similar claim. They could find no evidence that he knew them or was in contact with them. There are links out there if you do a quick search.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Check this out from Time Magazine:
http://time.com/4368439/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-fbi-investigation-dropped/
So in 2013, he told co-workers that he hoped to martyr himself.
brett_jv
(1,245 posts)Then we're just dealing with a pathological & delusional liar, i.e. traits of a typical mass shooter.
Either he was in contact with these terror groups, or NOT. The shit he SAID to others in that regard ... doesn't mean squat ... unless backed with some evidence he wasn't just making it up.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)But it does seem like he was enamored with the ideology presented by such groups.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)He was not a good Muslim.
Because some Islamic countries will imprison you or kill you for being gay does not mean every Muslim believes that. Especially those living in places other than those countries. For instance, in the USA, which is not mentioned in those lists.
There are countries which are Muslim majority and very restrictive. But to claim because of that that every Muslim living in the USA believes that is right is wrong.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I had not seen that information anywhere.
With respect to your other point, I would just assert that the idea that being gay is immoral is a view held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Here's a link to an article where the killer claims that he does not drink alcohol:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-omar-mateen-fdle-records-20160616-story.html
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)There is so much to this story. I almost wish the cops were able to take him alive so that he could be tried for his crimes, and we could learn more about what happened and why.
forthemiddle
(1,375 posts)Are you saying they really weren't Islamic terrorists because they drank, and used prostitutes in the days leading up to the attacks?
Wow!
What about the FBI claim that Omar made two pilgrimages in the past 5 years to the Middle East? Did he do those so he could have secret homosexual hookups so no one at home would know, and not that he was trying to further his religious ideology?
I don't think that if this was a right wing abortion clinic bomber that you would twist yourself into knots to "prove" that they weren't really Christians........
brett_jv
(1,245 posts)with any actual, violent terror group.
Dude was INVESTIGATED, multiple times, by the FBI, and they came back with basically 'yeah, he said some crap that raised flags and brought him to our attention ... and we looked ... but it appeared he was actually just spouting off shit, so we cleared him'.
Frankly the more we find out, the more it's getting pretty damn obvious that this dude was not 'ISIS', except maybe in his whacked-out fantasies.
Now, yeah, he's Muslim ... there's that. So I guess, to some, given the violence he committed, he's therefore 'a terrorist'. I get it ... but it also seems at time like he's one who lacks actual ties to any terrorist group ... He's a 'wannabe'.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)
King_David
(14,851 posts)He was a devout Muslim , he made the Haj twice, he was homophobic and he killed 49 people he thought were gay and he himself claimed that he did it in the name of ISIS - and now you twist yourself in a pretzel to say this has nothing to do with his Islamic beliefs ?
Who do you think would honestly buy that crap?
Don't be totally ridiculous.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)(Clip)
To be clear, these groups named by Mateen are not allies. The Islamic State and al-Qaeda both derive their theology from an extreme view of Sunni Islamism, but in practical terms the pair split in 2014, with the more established al-Qaeda publicly disavowing the actions of the more extreme Islamic State. Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Qaeda's affiliate in Syria, often fights the Islamic State in the Syrian conflict. Meanwhile, Hezbollah is a Shiite Islamist group. In Syria, it supports the government of Bashar al-Assad, effectively meaning it fights both the Islamic State and al-Qaeda.
Comey suggested Monday that Mateen may have not understood the distinctions among the groups. Relatives have given mixed reports about the level of Mateen's religiosity, with some suggesting he preferred working out to studying religion. He attended the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce, though he is said to have rarely spoken. His Afghan father has filmed videos that appeared to offer support for the Taliban, a fundamentalist movement that also opposes the Islamic State, though his messages also were sometimes incoherent.(clip)
King_David
(14,851 posts)He did it in their name, and which group is irrelevant. He was a terrorist and murdered 49 people he thought were gay for the "cause " he believed in - fucked up Islamic terrorist cause....
All 3 of those groups would of approved of killing 49 Gays in cold blood - all 3 of them hate and kill Gays and aspire to- which group he pledged allegiance to was irrelevant- they all 3 would be proud of this act.
Recently Hamas killed one of their own commanders, because they said he was Gay ... In Mateens mind he could of added Hamas to that list and it would of still been the same deed for the same ideology.
Petrushka
(3,709 posts)http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)the proper follow up care needed.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)99.9 percent of them don't commit mass murder.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)when you combine an unstable person, possibly a conflicted person sexually, which might have been at odds with his religion and maybe, just maybe, him ultimately feeling more vulnerable watching the killings in his parent's nation, it was too much.
But I go back and say an underlying cause was his inability to rationalize all other factors as he lacked the capacity to deal with challenges. We cannot label all people with emotional problems and put them into some pigeon hole, other factors come into play, for some people the emotional factor plays a more important role and for others they would never do such a horrible thing.
I think there are levels of insecurity and instability, I believe his was heightened due to other factors.
Sexual identity and conflicting religious beliefs can be dealt with IF one does not have an underlying emotional problem.
Combine a variety of factors and that is a recipe for disaster.
I will agree that most emotionally unstable people never commit crimes, when combined with other factors it can lead to a tragedy.
We cannot zero in on one factor as a cause, but I do believe being emotionally unstable can go a long way to exacerbate other problems.
Always the media looks to zero in on A cause, he was a Muslim terrorist, he was a gay and could not accept that fact.
But the underlying fact IMHO is that he was disturbed as his first wife said, how he copes with other areas of his life follows some deluded path.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)However, I think that just as some people are quick to tie everything to radical Islam, so others are quick to completely discount that as a factor. I wish more people could reflect on the situation without getting caught up in trying to make it fit one narrative or another.
pnwmom
(108,950 posts)it is too easy for violent people of any group to get access to them.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)There are a series of factors that led to this horrific crime, and I think it's important to honestly look at what all of them might be. The easy access to the assault weapon can be addressed as a problem along side an examination of what caused him (and might cause others) to want to commit an act of terrorism of this nature.
rusty quoin
(6,133 posts)Fuck figuring out some guys reason later. I would like to put military assault rifles out of the hands of even police.
The military locks up such weapons at night in a big bank like safe, unless on a battlefield.
I actually like the military thinking which is actually one of the most socialist organizations in America. You do not let a maybe confused recruit sleep with his weapon on American soil.
It only makes sense.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)who would like to see all gays shot dead?
This should not be a battle of religions, extremists in any religion should be condemned for their hatred.
If we are going to try and eradicate hatred we should do it without prejudice.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)say they didn't fuck up.
Throd
(7,208 posts)goldent
(1,582 posts)BlackLivesMatter
(32 posts)I'm not going to use the words jihadism or Islam, but whether the perpetrator were gay or not, Muslim or not, homophobic or not, this was still a crime of terror and hate. Terror, because as a heterosexual male, I was scared to be in a dance club for a few seconds in Williamsburg this weekend. Hate because people were targeted for murder because of sexual orientation.
pnwmom
(108,950 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)It was a homophobic radical Islamic terrorist, who actually slaughtered 49 people he thought were gay and he claimed to be doing it in the name of ISIS.
Darb
(2,807 posts)It's as American as apple pie, thanks to the gumps.