Elaborate Suicide Attack Hits Christian Village in Lebanon

[oberliner]

Source: NY Times

BEIRUT, Lebanon — Eight suicide bombers launched two waves of attacks on the Christian town of Al Qaa in northeastern Lebanon on Monday, killing at least five people and raising fears that violence from the civil war in neighboring Syria will further destabilize Lebanon, its fragile neighbor.

Four attackers blew themselves up in the town before dawn, killing five people and wounding a dozen others, according to local officials. Four more attacks took place at night as residents prepared for funerals to be held on Tuesday morning, wounding 11 more people, according to the state-run National News Agency.

Lebanon has so far managed to avoid large-scale violence, but the country has extensive political and sectarian ties with Syria and has struggled to insulate itself from the civil war. Some Lebanese have joined the fight across the border. Hezbollah, the powerful Shiite militia, is backing President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, and some Sunni Muslims have joined the rebels seeking to topple him.

The country has also taken in about 1.5 million Syrian refugees, whose presence has stressed government services and put pressure on the economy.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/world/middleeast/al-qaa-lebanon-suicide-bombers.html

[Skittles]

1. religon gone wild

[NutmegYankee]

2. I'm firmly convinced that hate is a component in this.

No religion teaches and condones such acts. People allow their hate to pervert the faith and use it to justify their actions.

[oberliner]

3. The idea that killing yourself will lead to paradise comes from religion

Human nature dictates that one should try to stay alive.

Religions convince people that by killing themselves, in the service of killing others, one can immediately by transported to a better life in another world. (Some religions promote this concept more than others).

[treestar]

5. I looked that up - Islam does not allow suicide either

It's stricter than Catholicism is against it.

It's political with use of the religion to fire up the "soldiers."

[oberliner]

6. Suicide is against Islam. Martyrdom is not.

Istishhad - Opinion of Scholars

Militant groups that carry out "martyrdom operations" believe their actions fulfill the obligation of jihad against the "oppressor" and have found support with some clerics. However, other Western and Muslim scholars of Islam have pointed out the clear violation of classical Islamic law.

http://www.liquisearch.com/istishhad/opinion_of_scholars

It seems to be an open debate among Islamic scholars.

[hollowdweller]

25. I always thought a martyr is somebody who is unjustly killed for what they believe.

This whole new concept where somebody kills others and themselves for what the other person believes is a new thing.

[7962]

7. Except when it doesnt consider suicide "death". Detail matters when dealing with them.

"And say not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah, “They are dead.” Nay, they are living, but you perceive (it) not."
Verse 154 of al-Baqara
A path straight to paradise without going trough the trials that all others have to go through. This is their recruiting tool

[treestar]

9. Arguable though

Obviously they know that suicide is against Islam and strain to make out a case to the would be martyrs that what they are doing is not suicide.

[7962]

18. But according to their own scriptures, its not REALLY suicide.

Thats how they excuse it. Just like lying is wrong, unless it done to further Islam. then its perfectly OK

[Igel]

12. The US doesn't allow suicide, right?

But if you're a soldier and go in to clear out a machine gun nest and get killed on what amounts to a suicide mission, you're a hero.

In other words, (suicide + avoid life) = bad, but (suicide + help community) = good.

It works with partisans during occupation, spies and saboteurs during peacetime, soldiers during wartime. It works with emergency and rescue workers.

Atheist societies have the same sort of values. Red Army soldiers that died for Communism were heroes. So were Chinese fighters. Israeli fighters in the late '40s were not always religious--Zionism was largely a secular, sometimes atheist, initiative. Their "paradise" was knowing they made their collective safe(r). Paradise for religionists is often icing on the cake, a reward for serving their God and their community. It might make it more palatable, but probably not in a lot of instances. Call that "unquantifiable".

Catholicism has no restrictions on risk taking to preserve life. In fact, its central hero is a person who walked into death and did nothing to avoid it, essentially committing suicide by sanhedrim+crowd+king, and places great value on somebody "who lays down his life for his friends."

But since the same value occurs with and without religion, perhaps it's best to consider this a core value for societies and the eternal rewards as a reinforcing overlay. Many of the similarities between religions are precisely that--ensconcing what would be a normal value in a religious setting, to reinforce it and make it an explicit part of the code of conduct. Religion and legality have often been merged, and the most likely etymology for "religion" connects it with "obligation" and "ligare" and the very word for 'law', "lex" (with the root leg- as in 'legal').

[treestar]

13. Thoughtful

It is part of our code, especially masculinity though going into a dangerous battle, even one of "forlorn hope" is not considered suicide but bravery and surviving it is always preferable, enjoying the adulation for one's bravery. Not surviving it makes the rest of us thankful for their service and some comfort to their families - at least he/she died a hero.

I recall a movie taking place in WWII where the character was a female air person who deliberately crashed her plane in the ocean, according to the plot thereby saving the US from certain defeat by the Japanese. She was a hero for that of course.

But it takes elaborate movie plotting to come up with the scenario where a person has the opportunity, as it were, to do that. Taking a risk means there is a chance of survival.

[npk]

23. Clearing out a machine gun nest is not suicide

suicide is the deliberate taking of your life by your own device. Just like jumping on a live grenade to save others is not suicide, unless you yourself placed that live grenade there and jumped on it. Understand the distinction?

[JackRiddler]

15. Suicide attacks are an ancient military tactic.

Not to make any excuses for "religion" or specifically Islamist variants.

(Whatever "religion" is, since it's often so hard to distinguish from "culture" or any other form of "indoctrination," and is useless as a general term given the variations in ideas associated with it, from love to kill your neighbor.)

Before the defeat of the Tamil Tigers in 2009, the secular/atheist Marxist rebel group was responsible for the majority of suicide attacks worldwide over a period of decades. For some reason they couldn't afford cruise missiles, so they indoctrinated live humans to act as delivery systems for explosives and created heroic narratives around their sacrifice. It's not like they lacked for precedents.

War is the real producer of such phenomena.

[oberliner]

17. "So they indoctrinated live humans"

Religion provides that sort of indoctrination. Convincing people that they will go to paradise for being martyrs can be quite an incentive.

Certainly it's not the only method by which people can be induced into such behavior, but it is a powerful one

[JackRiddler]

19. Sure, but it doesn't happen without war.

[oberliner]

20. Sure it does

Today in Turkey, for example.

[JackRiddler]

24. Turkey is at war in Syria and in a long and bloody civil conflict at home.

Condemn it I absolutely do, but suicide bombing is a tactic of asymmetrical warfare.

In this case, no attribution has been given.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-30/istanbul-airport-bombings-turkey-in-mourning-as-is-links-grow/7555698

[oberliner]

26. Were the suicide bombers Syrian fighters?

Or were they part of a group engaged against the Turkish government in civil conflict?

If not, then this would be an attack not in the context of war. Would you agree?

[Skittles]

22. you can make people believe that stuff

you can make them believe anything

[7962]

8. Seems as though we should be allowing the Christians to come in from the ME.

Since they've been targeted constantly. Such as the Yazidis.
Yet I've seen no stats on how many are being allowed in.

[oberliner]

10. This was in Lebanon, not Syria

Christians make up almost half of the population there.

[Yupster]

16. Until very recently there was a vibrant Christian community in Syria

They have almost all fled now.

I agree we should be taking in those people who are being systematically driven from their ancestral lands.

[840high]

27. .+1

[Democat]

11. 8 suicide bombers caused 5 deaths?

It's a terrible story, but at least they are killing more of themselves than others.

[Kelvin Mace]

14. There are worse things that dying in a bomb blast

and the maimed survivors are walking ads for the terrorists.

[B2G]

21. ISIS has demonstrated that quite nicely

Haven't they?