Think Russia isn’t directing rebels in Ukraine? Then read this about leaked emails

[DetlefK]

Source: McClatchy Washington Bureau

The emails from Russia were pretty straightforward: The government in Kiev was to be referred to as fascist and compared to puppet dictatorships whenever possible. News reports were to mention as often as possible that the puppet master was the United States.

For good measure, the Russian advisers even insisted that media handlers in the so-called "People's Republic of Donetsk" provide a daily count of how many stories featured the phrase "It's worse in Ukraine."

The leaked emails, which were acquired and are being reported on by the German magazine Die Zeit and Germany's public television broadcaster, ZDF, provide hard evidence of how closely involved Russia is in the separatist movement at the heart of Ukraine's so-called civil war, which has taken almost 10,000 lives since 2014. That runs counter to the narrative promoted by Russian President Vladimir Putin and other Russian officials.

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/think-russia-isnt-directing-rebels-in-ukraine-then-read-this-about-leaked-emails/

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Well, look at that. Leaked emails from Russia. Turns out, a Tango takes two.

Other OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113318539

[baldguy]

1. Sounds like Fox News.

[joeybee12]

2. sounds like the Russian trolls who were posting here

Guess they've been purged. It was kind of amusing their lied

[Ghost Dog]

4. Yup. Good observation! n/t

[cstanleytech]

3. There were reports from when they invaded if I recall that there were Russian

troops out of uniform in the guise of local "rebels" for the region fighting for their freedom.

[Ghost Dog]

5. Do the German sources have anything more solid than this, DetlefK?

It looks highly-spun...

[DetlefK]

6. My bad. Here's the original article from "Die Zeit". It's in english.

http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2016-09/russia-propaganda-eastern-ukraine-separatists-e-mails

The newspaper "Die Zeit" collaborated with the TV-show "Frontal21" for this. Both have a decades-old reputation for hard-hitting investigative journalism. I doubt that they have been tricked.

EDIT: Go to the next pages by clicking on the page-numbers below, not by clicking on the arrow.

[JonLP24]

7. I haven't followed the Ukraine conflict for over a year

Mainly because I don't trust the press in how they've been covering this. There is already so much bias from all sides I can't trust I'm getting accurate information. I will say VICE has done a good job going down there and interviewed folks on all side.

Ukraine has been suffering under a constitutional crisis for years, high levels of corruption and discrimination. Not to mention countries aiding each side of the conflict.

[Xolodno]

8. Why is this still being disputed?

Russia isn't just calling the shots, they have "volunteers" helping the rebels as well. Nevermind the arms the rebels are being supplied by Russia as well.

But it doesn't matter anymore. There is so much poison between West and East Ukraine, I don't think any reconciliation is possible at this point. Then again, the issues that divide West and East Ukraine go as far back when Poland's King was hand picked by the Tsar.

[DetlefK]

9. Yes. It didn't take some dark conspiracy to break Ukraine in two.

Ukraine was always split:
An eastern half that feels closer to Russia and votes for candidates who want to be closer to Russia.
A western half that feels closer to Europe and votes for candidates who want to be closer to Europe.

Look at the past election-results: The political split nicely fits the geographical split.

All it took was sufficient political pressure: The EU once and for all wanted Ukraine to decide between Europe and Russia, and Ukraine broke apart over that question. And it did so neatly along the fault-line.

(Imagine US-voters being forced to decide once and for all whether they want the US to be liberal or conservative.)

[Xolodno]

10. Problem is, western Ukraine isn't economically viable as a nation.

Well, at least in "modern" terms. It has five choices;

1. Relent and join Russia and keep Ukraine whole in principle...highly unliekly
2. Give massive autonomy to the east ...something the west isn't willing to do currently
3. A never ending civil war....which Europe won't stand for.
4. Let the east join Russia...and the west get absorbed into Poland, Romania, etc.
5. Become what Ukraine was at first, a poor farming nation ...a nation when Russia conquered a few centuries ago, didn't even have a currency.

The 6th option....drag eastern Ukraine into the west, has been effectively vetoed.

Funny thing is, Putin already stated empirically Ukraine wasn't a nation, it was Russia and Eastern Europe. This war may actually bring it to reality.

I'm thinking a "Balkan" type split is coming. Only, instead of multiple nations, Ukraine gets absorbed by many other nations. I wouldn't be surprised if Kiev is once again under the flag of the Third Rome.