Fox commentator apologizes for 'hurtful' remark on death of Santorum's son
(CNN) - Fox News contributor Alan Colmes apologized Monday night for making "hurtful" comments about the events following the 1996 death of Rick Santorum's infant son.
Earlier in the day, Colmes claimed Santorum took the baby home, after living for only two hours, and "played with it for a couple of hours so his other children would know that the child was real."
His apology to the Santorum family followed a barrage of criticism on Twitter for much of the day.
"Just spoke to @ricksantorum. He and Karen graciously accepted my apology for a hurtful comment," Colmes wrote.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/02/teary-eyed-santorum-responds-to-controversial-remarks-about-sons-death/
This was the right thing to do.
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tularetom
(23,664 posts)Unless all the press accounts I've heard are BS, what Colmes said was a factual account of what happened.
He knows that, too. I think what really happened is that Colmes was threatened by Fox with the loss of his fat commentator contract if he did not STFU about things that made Santorum look creepy.
In the dictionary, next to the word "spineless" you will find Alan Colmes picture.
liberalhistorian
(20,814 posts)but it was really wrong of him to bring it up like that. It was cruel and hurtful and really has nothing to do with anything political. And believe it or not, what they did was not unusual. Similar actions are often recommended for stillbirths in order to help the family grieve and heal. I cannot stand Santorum and the thought of him within even 500 miles of the White House is truly frightening, but this was inappropriate and uncalled-for.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)He wrote about it in his book. His wife then talked about it in a magazine article.
There's a simple solution here - they should have kept what they NOW consider a private family matter private.
If Colmes had brought this up initially, I'd be all over him for violating Santorum's privacy. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED.
Kurmudgeon
(1,751 posts)Let's not sink to that level, shall we?
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)Colmes merely asked him about the baby. How is that hurtful?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)"played" with a dead baby isn't hurtful? On what planet did you learn your manners? If someone on the right had said something like this, this entire site would be calling for his/her head on a platter.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)"There, they spent several hours kissing and cuddling Gabriel with his three siblings, ages 6, 4 and 1 1/2. They took photos, sang lullabies in his ear and held a private Mass."
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rick_Santorum
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)That sounds like grieving to me. Grieving in a respectful manner in which a child can understand.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)It was a disgusting comment by Colmes and he deserved all the heat he got for it.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)I would say they PLAYED ABOUT with the body.
I wish he would be more private about such disturbing family rituals. I find the thought of little children bonding with a dead body upsetting. The baby-human-child-person-soul was gone, just the lifeless body was left for them to play about with.
When someone makes public such unusual behavior, they shouldn't be surprised if people comment publicly, after all they wanted publicity.
What did they do with the proceeds from the book Mrs Santorum wrote about the dead baby? Did they donate the proceeds to a children's charity?
Santorum claims having the little children bond with the corpse gave them "closure"!
When I was 6, 4 or 1/12 years old, I would not have needed closure over something I was too young to comprehend. I think he and his wife must be mentally disturbed for putting their children children through this.
If a Democrat candidate had done this I couldn't support him or her.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)
October
(3,363 posts)I truly thought the baby was alive for a few hours...
Yes, it was a clumsy, ugly statement... but Santorum does not have compassion for the life of a mother in such events -- excepting his own wife. I have trouble with Santorum judging others in what must be a horrifying experience/decision.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)aren't there like laws and shit against that?
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)
lark
(23,061 posts)I work with a hospital in the area and my friend had a stillborn there. She was not offerred to take him home.
carla
(553 posts)to convince the electorate that "life is sacred", then the story is actually part of the campaign strategy. Such a strategy is creepy and deserves to be discussed. This is not about Santorum' family grief, this is about a self-serving politician who uses the death of his son to gain points with the electorate. It smells bad. It is rightly discussed because the candidate brought it up. The baby is dead and can in no way be affected by this. The siblings are likely confused as hell by mommy and daddy's weird way of "grieving". I have lost a child, I didn't bring her home to grieve or to let her siblings play with her corpse. I find it disturbing , but even worse, Santorum comes across as very cynical. I wouldn't vote for such a creature.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)It's sick by nearly every standard I can think of, but he thought it was just dandy to expose his kids to a corpse and play with it like a rag doll. If you didn't think Mr. Frothy was deranged prior to that incident, he provided all the proof you would ever need.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)choices. Not our business.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)I mean seriously, that's creepy. Why are you defending it?
So why are some defending him for his loss instead of condemning him for his public disclosure? "Their dead baby-their choices. Not our business." So why does Santorum get to make it our business? If you don't see the cynicism inherent in his tale, then I've got a bridge you can purchase.
Demoiselle
(6,787 posts)Once Santorum did that, he opened the doors very wide indeed.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)
yurbud
(39,405 posts)that seems like too much for kids to process.
I didn't see a dead body until my late teens and it was a lot to take in.
for tweens and preteens, it could be a formative experience--in a bad way.
On the plus side, it probably made the kids far less likely to engage in casual sex. On the minus side, it probably made the kids far less likely to engage in marital sex or have any sexual thought of any kind ever again.
Two of my female relatives as children saw siblings being born ALIVE and that was enough to make them swear off of having kids. One just now has changed her mind in her mid-20s. The other is still a pre-teen.
I hope Rick Santorum writes a parenting book some day. I'll buy it and do the opposite of whatever he says.
Renew Deal
(81,845 posts)It's not a legitimate issue and makes those that bring it up look petty.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)... or respect for the dead. We don't need another one. Yes, it is a legitimate issue. I don't care if Mr. Frothy wears silky lace womens' undies. That's his business. But it is legitimate to judge the character of a candidate by such actions.
Renew Deal
(81,845 posts)The way his family mourns a death is none of anyone’s business. People only bring it up to mock and ridicule. It's shameful behavior.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)"Here, pat your dead baby brother's head". That's just wrong on way too many levels.
Renew Deal
(81,845 posts)How does it make you a better person for bring it up? How does it help your candidate?
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)
Renew Deal
(81,845 posts)
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)I didn't know you were from PA. I certainly don't blame you for him. 
As soon as Pennsylvanians figured out who he was they threw him out.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)His kids attended "cyber school" and Penn Hills got stuck with the bill - even though the fucker and his spawn lived in Leesburg, VA the whole time.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)elsewhere in northern Va. 
provis99
(13,062 posts)
tblue37
(65,218 posts)does not in any way help the Democratic candidate, so it is better not to bring it up at all, even if it is true, because so many people feel that it sounds offensive to say such things, and thus saying such things can turn voters away from candidates supported by those who have said something that offends them.
SaintPete
(533 posts)whether this is your opinion, or an established fact
Bandit
(21,475 posts)worth bringing up. It goes to show the mental stability of the man or lack there of...It has EVERYTHING to do with how we judge a person we might vote for or against... You can cast aspersions on the people that comment all you wish but that doesn't change the fact that this is very abnormal behavior..
boppers
(16,588 posts)What if he brought it home, and they made a soup from the body?
How about if they stuffed and mounted it, instead, maybe put it over the fireplace?
There are boundaries, aren't there, where privacy offends social rules about respecting the dead?
DeathToTheOil
(1,124 posts)Amen, liberalhistorian and RenewDeal. Talking about somebody else's children is wrong, be they living or dead.
harun
(11,348 posts)They don't cover legitimate issues, never have.
carla
(553 posts)was the man who brought up the dead baby first. He used it as an object lesson to show how compassionate he is, how very "respectful" of life he is, he offered it as a character sketch of candidate Santorum. He needs to be called on it for what it is ; cynical emotional manipulation of the electorate. The GOP at its finest...
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)HE WAS THE ONE who initially told this story in his book. I guess he had no idea how REVOLTED many people would be at the thought of forcing small children to "bond" with a dead fetus.
He is an idiot.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,321 posts)I thought it was a baby, born alive, and died after a few hours.
So for a few hours, his other kids had a new sibling. A private pre-funeral visitation at home doesn't seem revolting at all. If it's how the family deals with death and grief, it's not a political issue.
I agree, he's an idiot. But not because of this.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)And it was a late term abortion performed to save the life of the mother.
It's a political issue because Santorum has stated he is opposed to all abortions even to save the life of the mother. So it's okay for his wife but not for any other woman.
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)about it being a late term abortion. I guess I had assumed that she was in premature labor.
Do you know what her condition was that they had to make such a gut-wrenching decision?
I wonder, how have they managed to keep that part secret? It's a pretty big deal.
Renew Deal
(81,845 posts)Obama wrote plenty about his mom in his book. Is she a political issue? You know that she was pregnant before marriage. Get her!
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)Talk about straw man. LOL
Renew Deal
(81,845 posts)She is fair game because Obama put it in his book. At least that's what you just argued upthread.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)but claims to be 'pro-life' and doesn't believe in abortion even to save the life of the mother.
Then a reporter asks him about this baby and it's below the belt??
Tell you what, as soon as you catch Obama being a hypocrite about pregnant women getting married, THEN we can bring up his mom.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Santorum's own sponsored bill to ban D&X or partial birth abortion, has an exemption for the life of the mother*.
I got smacked down with the text of the bill earlier in another venue, so, just trying to correct the record.
*LIFE not 'health'.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)It says HEALTH, not LIFE. Never once could I catch this rat bastard saying LIFE. Yes, 'life' is inclusive of health, but health is more broad, at least rhetorically among pro-lifers.
Text from his sponsored bill:
“A defendant accused of an offense under this section may seek a hearing before the State Medical Board on whether the physician's conduct was necessary to save the life of the mother whose life was endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself.”
If you have something, somewhere, that indicates Santorum has ever said 'not even to protect the life of the mother', I need it.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)
It seems Santorum will bring his children to any political event, into any political discussion so long as it benefits him, but then complains when he's called on it...
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)rgbecker
(4,820 posts)Could it be a result of the unusual grieving procedures? Or have these kids suddenly realized who their dad actually is.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Pointing out that it's sick & creepy to everyone is.
Renew Deal
(81,845 posts) proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)SaintPete
(533 posts)I'm not sure whether any clinical studies have been done regarding the psychological benefits/detriments, but having contact with a recently deceased relative is very common.
You may disagree, but not everyone is on the same page...
qb
(5,924 posts)Alan Colmes has had a few bright moments, but overall he is very disappointing as a "liberal".
yurbud
(39,405 posts)and contradict him.
Whatever he said had to be treated as fact and Colmes could only disagree on ideological grounds.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)a paycheck from those who make those kinds of rules, who is the whore?
yurbud
(39,405 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)a sniveling chicken should be the party's new mascot.
Roy Rolling
(6,908 posts)Trying to imitate the stupidity of Republicans in a race to the bottom is a losing strategy. Democrats need to choose their battles wisely. And as much as Obama failed to stand against Bush tax cuts, standing in support of Alan Colmes' stupid, inaccurate, and inapropriate comments is equally misplaced.
I agree Democrats need to grow a backbone, but standing up to Fox by supporting Colmes betrays progressive values of truth in journalism and sensitivity to time and circumstance.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Look at the GOP presidential field. these nuts would have been laughed off the stage 20 years ago. Now one of them is going to be president. If the Repukes have been "losing" for 20 years, I would like to lose for awhile.
"Choose their battles wisely"? I would be happy if they would fight the Repukes on any issue of substance.
Your post validates the one to which you responded. Weak, timid, conciliatory. the exact traits that have gotten us here.
SaintPete
(533 posts)don't you think Obama has ANY chance at all?
Roy Rolling
(6,908 posts)Colmes' job as a token-liberal on Fox has worn out its welcome. His comments were just plain stupid and inappropriate for someone who is supposed to be injecting common sense within a network of clowns.
When Hannity and Colmes were a show on Fox my wife called them "Hitler and Anthead".
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)If he couldn't say anything intelligent, he should have just been quiet. Thankfully, Rick is not in danger of being president. This isn't something I would want to do.
But, I guess I get Santorum's point. He wanted them to understand that they had lost a sibling. People used to keep people in the house for a day or so after they died, and everyone came to visit or sit with the dead. In the case of a still born, there is still a burial process. So, I'm assuming this is just the way Santorum thought would be appropriate for his family to grieve. I would hope it would mean that they had a greater appreciation for life. But, Santorum is just crazy to me in general.
As a parent, it would just be hard for me to mock how a family grieves for a dead child. Even a child that's only a few hours old. You spend a lot of time thinking about a new baby. Even if it's not your first one. If you have children, they are also anxiously awaiting for the new arrival. So, to get all through the pregnancy, give birth, and then have the baby die...would be hard on everyone involved. There are already pampers at home, clothes, a baby bed...etc. Then, you also have all of your friends and family who may have been waiting with you, who may have heard of the birth, that later you have to tell about the death. Tragic.
As I said, it's not what I would do. I would think it would make the grief even more unbearable for the children than it already is...but, hey that's me. Alan was a jerk. Well, actually, another word comes to mind. Plain and simple. There were lots of ways for him to say, he was not comfortable with Santorum's decision, without the degree of callousness he displayed. I have never had to deal with what Santorum's family has had to deal with. But, I can empathize. Who the heck have we become when we can no longer empathize? He may be a sorry excuse for a candidate, and someone who should never get within 100 feet of the White House. But, I can empathize with a family having to find a way to deal with grief.
enuegii
(664 posts)to save the life of the mother, an option Santorum wishes to deny to other women in all cases.
Perfectly legitimate for Colmes to bring it up.
Plain and simple.
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)The point is...it's a baby they expected to bring home alive, but didn't get a chance to. And, it was tacky of Colmes to suggest that they brought a dead child home to play with. I'm sorry.
If he lacks the ability to express himself appropriately, he should just be quiet. Had he focused his brain a second longer, he could have made (what I guess his point was) the point that he didn't think their actions were appropriate. Wow! What a difference. I didn't suggest he not bring it up. I suggest he put his brain into action, before his mouth, and state his case more appropriately.
It's the tacky way he handled his position, that he rightly apologized for. He knew it was tacky and so did anyone else with half a heart. Just because I don't want Santorum as President, doesn't mean I can feel good or comfortable making a sick joke about his aborted baby. My opinion of his tasteless comment does not change, whether the child was stillborn or aborted.
Isn't that what humanity is all about?
creeksneakers2
(7,472 posts)or did he bring up the way the Santorums grieved? They seem like two different things to me.
tblue37
(65,218 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)Maybe not if he doesn't.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)Is this standard practice? And if so, how is it then that I'm suppose to share his "worldview" and want him as my President?
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)I also think it's child abuse to force young children to stroke and sing to a dead baby.
a2liberal
(1,524 posts)think that a perfectly natural grieving process is downright creepy. So there.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)Nowhere I know of, except in the Santorum house.
stonecutter357
(12,693 posts)Santorum's sick & creepy .
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Response to DeathToTheOil (Original post)
Post removed
emilyg
(22,742 posts)stonecutter357
(12,693 posts)Do you have a list of DU shitheads and losers?
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Throughout history, very few people have died in hospitals, never to be seen again until the funeral. Dying at home was the norm, and still is over much of the world. Taking the body home from whatever crude medical facility one dies in (if you're lucky enough to be near one) is common practice in non-industrialised countries.
What's "creepy" is insulating oneself from the reality of death and pretending it doesn't happen.
What's bizzare and truely horrifying is anyone on a progressive website who denigrates others for the way they choose to memorialize their dead and express their grief.
Such bigotry and vitriol on this website is sickening, and those guilty of it should be ashamed. Colmes included.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)the ones who took pride in our understanding and acceptance of others.
Between this and all the fat jokes I see floating around I really start to question that belief that democrats embody what I feel are those most important qualities.
Strike at his idiot politics, but leave his person alone.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)for his children. A couple of weeks ago, our cat of 15 years died in our family room. I was on the phone frantically to the vet to figure out what to do. My wife was trying to comfort the cat. The kids were in the room with us. As a family we had never before experienced a death in our midst. It was an intense hour. We were not in a rush to put Happy out of our lives. We each spontaneously took a few moments and stroked the dead cat's fur. Stories of memories of the cat and tears for our loss and her pain started bubbling up and out. We talked about what Happy might have been feeling and what might be happening next for happy. I'm atheist but my eldest daughter has been exploring the christian beliefs and felt some comfort in the idea that Happy might be in a "better place". All the while the dead cat was there and we were touching and caressing her corpse. In the end, after maybe a half and hour to an hour, after everyone said their piece and the intensity had left the room, I wrapped Happy in a towel, put her lifeless and limp body in a box, closed it after asking if anyone else wanted to touch her again. Everyone was satisfied and ready to let happy go. I put here in the cold garage to wait until the next day when my wife and her father would bury her in the ground.
There was much contact with the corpse. It, I suppose on some level was incredibly morbid, but I feel like I have never been more close as a family unit than we were while we were navigating that tragedy hand in hand, all the while touching that dead body. Feeling her grow cold. Morbid or not, and excepting being able to avoid the death all together, I would not change the experience we had for anything.
I, because of this experience, find it very easy to relate to the idea of spending some time with the deceased as a family. It just feels like the right thing to do. I hope when I go, my family can sit around my lifeless body and work their way through their initial grief strengthening their familial bond. I hope my passing is able to give that sort of gift of closeness and closure to those I leave behind. I hope I'm not instantly swept away and processed but instead, even in death, able to somehow aid in the grieving process and rather than being ripped from my family's loving arms, they are able to let go a little as they see fit.
yardwork
(61,538 posts)I know what you're talking about. And when my father died, the woman from hospice encouraged us to spend as much time as we wanted with the body to say goodbye. And, of course, there is a very long tradition of wakes, viewings, and other ceremonies in which people spend time with the bodies of their loved ones. It's very common across all human traditions.
It is wrong for anybody to mock the Santorums for how they chose to experience the death of their child. There are many other things to legitimately criticize about Santorum and the things he says and does. Families should be off limits.
Thank you for your post. My cat died in 1976 and I still remember how intensely my family and I grieved in those moments after he died.
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)Apparently this is very common in primate species. Gorillas and chimps will hold dead babies for a long time in mourning.
"Yesterday, zookeepers were still unable to get to the body of Claudio, so fiercely is Gana guarding him. ('In the wild, a gorilla mother can keep hold of a dead baby for weeks,' added Adler.)
http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Philosophy/Morality/Speciesism/GorillaGrief.htm
Skittles
(153,111 posts)
yardwork
(61,538 posts)I cringe on the rare occasions I hear him speak.
Lions_fan
(174 posts)children don't choose their parents, they also don't have a say in how their parents use them for political purposes. Just leave the children out of it even if their parents put them in the mix.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Many of my family members touched him and said goodbye.
Rex
(65,616 posts)a fetus home to show the kids. Just my 2 cents.
Violet_Crumble
(35,955 posts)I know he's an anti-choice zealot, but I'm not, and once I decided to continue my pregnancy, it was a baby to me. I even gave it a dumb name. That's why I can understand the devastation and grief felt by women who have miscarriages, or those with a wanted pregnancy who have to terminate the pregnancy because of foetal abnormalities or a risk to the mother's health. Only a few decades ago they were discouraged from mourning and were basically told to forget about it and move on. Humans need to be able to grieve losses like that, and sometimes the choice of a family on how to mourn and try to start healing can look outright bizarre to outsiders looking in....
The fact that anti-choicers use situations like those to peddle their ugly anti-women agendas is what makes me feel sick. I had to check the source of this info I found on grieving perinatal loss to make sure it wasn't some anti-choice bunch masquerading as a legitimate group...
'Perinatal loss is a profound experience for childbearing families. Examples of perinatal loss include miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, stillbirth, neonatal death, and other losses. Perinatal loss engenders a unique kind of mourning since the child is so much a part of the parental identity. Societal expectations for mourning associated with perinatal loss are noticeably absent. Gender differences in response to such loss, as well as sibling and grandparent grief have been identified in the literature. Descriptive studies provide information on cultural responses to perinatal loss. Nursing interventions have been refined over the past two decades as research studies have been performed, in order to more fully promote health and healing in the face of perinatal loss. These include helping to create meaning through the sharing of the story of parental loss, the facilitation of sociocultural rituals associated with loss, the provision of tangible mementos, sensitive presence, and the validation of the loss. Outcome evaluations of such interventions are recommended.'
http://www.nursingcenter.com/prodev/ce_article.asp?tid=663164
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)Exactly...for the possible parents. It's no longer a baby. Perhaps its a fetus to the rest of the world. Maybe it's a fetus, scientifically speaking. But, from the moment the pregnancy test says YES...for me, it was a baby. I have miscarried. I don't think of it as losing a fetus. I think I lost a baby. And, I grieved.
It was intense because of the intense emotions that I felt upon discovering I was going to be a mother. Having future children, didn't remove the pain of the one I lost. And, people really do treat you, as if to say...oh, well. Move on. As if the child wasn't real for you. Real people seldom move on that quickly.
No man or woman, who have just seen a pregnancy test AND actually want to be parents says...Wow! We have a fetus. They say, we're going to have a baby. That's the immediate.
As I said, I wouldn't have handled it the way Santorum did. But, for me...his being a republican isn't enough for me to discount the way Colmes handled the topic.
Rex
(65,616 posts)His choice of words were very poor indeed. I doubt the family 'played' with the fetus. Mourned would be a better word...'played' makes it sound like they are callow and crazy.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Frothy Man is abby normal and Colmes is a token lapdog for the Evil Empire. If the event helped or hurt the family, is none of my business and I wish Frothy would own up to making the issue public then getting mad when people call him on it.
If you cannot stand the heat, quit.