Amazons new grocery store highlights a huge hole in Donald Trumps promise on jobs

[Blue Shoes]

Source: Business Insider

Amazon debuted its new Go store on Monday, and the design of the store hints at a future of shopping with no human interaction.

The grocery store will allow shoppers to check in to the store with their phones, grab what they need, and simply walk out of the store.

The shopper's Amazon account will be billed for the cost of the goods. Customers won't have to stand in line, and critically, they won't have to interact with a cashier.

That's great news for Amazon customers who detest human interaction or waiting, but it's bad news for cashiers, a critical part of the US workforce, and it highlights the challenge Donald Trump will face as he bids to boost the US labor market.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-go-manufacturing-cashier-labor-market-employment-trump-2016-12

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Just another reason why Trump's outrageous promises about jobs will never come true. The economy is changing in ways that his backwards policies will be unable to solve.

[titaniumsalute]

1. How many Amazon shoppers are people who work in retail?

If they are for this then they simply support killing their own jobs.

[Blue Shoes]

2. I'm not opposed to new technology.

If this works it would be a wonderful convenience, however there needs to be a safety net in place so workers who had these jobs can get retrained or go back to school and those are exactly the types of programs Trump is trying to gut.

[OnlinePoker]

10. Retrained for what, exactly?

Manufacturing is mostly being automated and now retail is going human-less. There are and will be only so many jobs in IT even with this automation, so where will the new work come from? I'm glad I'm retired.

[yeoman6987]

17. McDonald's is just going automatic too they announced last week

[Blue Shoes]

18. We need to fundementally restructure the economy.

We need an economy centered around automated manufacturing and IT. More automated means more factories can be made and they can be operated by fewer people, bringing more abundance of goods and resources for cheaper.

We need more investment into new modern factories and research facilities. Since the private sector has been hesitant to do this, the government needs to either push them or do it themselves.

[Blanks]

54. Factories need to be decentralized...

If we had small automated manufacturing facilities spread throughout the country, there will be a demand for material handlers, stockers, technicians etc.

There is no reason not to have processing facilities closer to where the crops are grown, the trees are cut, and the materials are mined.

When the price of fuel goes up again, the cost of all goods will go up because everything is transported everywhere.

We need to make areas of the country more self sufficient in the interest of national security.

[LisaM]

19. Retrained to do what? Making college a necessity isn't working out.

Another place Amazon is trying to be disruptive is the trucking industry. We're going to cut loose millions of trucking jobs (still a decent paying job in a lot of cases), jobs that don't require college degrees but pay well? Why? If all the service jobs are lost then what?

This is what's driving a wedge between red and blue America.

[msongs]

3. probably the same ones that buy cars made outside the 50 states

[Hekate]

23. Ahem. You mean Honda and Toyota? They're made here.

First, let me tell you I don't have money to waste on huge chunks of metal and plastic that break down. I shop carefully, starting with researching Consumer Reports. I want reliability. I want something my husband and I can drive for a couple of decades. I was all for President Obama saving the American auto industry, but by that time my brand preference was pretty well set on the cars that originated in Japan. You'll be happy to know, however, that they're pretty much made here these days.

http://time.com/money/2945725/american-made-cars-ford-toyota/

[madokie]

27. Around here in northeast oklahoma

I see a lot of 15-20 plus year old ford cars and pickups but rarely do I see a honda or toyota that old
GM cars and trucks are almost as rare as the Japanese branded auto's. Never see a 10 plus year old Korean made auto on these roads.

Why is that?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

41. and in California...

You might be surprised to learn that no vehicle has been sold in the US under the Datsun brand in thirty years, yet there they are.

[d_r]

30. Yay

we are Japan's Mexico, awesome

[LanternWaste]

52. Or train operators who buy cars made within or without the US.

Or train operators who buy cars made within or without the US.

[Renew Deal]

8. People are concerned about price, quality, and convenience

I don't think they're all that concerned about retail jobs even if they have one.

[guillaumeb]

9. Until they lost their own jobs and then reality will upset their worldview.

Cheap Chinese junk sold at WalMart is still too expensive without any job.

[LisiFFXV]

43. After the election of Trump...

I have very little sympathy for those who want "their jobs" to stay at the expense of damn near everyone else and the country itself. I will take no action to protect them from their new leader's effects on them - and I would encourage others to do the same. No more hand holding these people. You want a job? Fine. Bernie had a plan for you - get some education and obtain a modern job that has a place in our modern economy. That's reality. You want to vote in a fascist instead? You've made your own bed. Sleep in it.

[iluvtennis]

4. Nice, I can't wait for it to get to my town...

We already have self checkouts out Walmart, SafeWay, Luckys/other grocery stores. So those chashier jobs have been diminishing over the last several years. This new Amazon technology just takes it one step further in that now we don't have to get wait in the self checkout line..we put it on our shopping bags and viola - done. I love it.

We'll still need cashiers as everyone is not onboard to using this technology...but we do need to start training folks in other industries like alternative energy, auto mechanics (there'll always be cars), etc

[BeyondGeography]

5. Maybe he can give Bezos a tax break and a Ford Maverick or something

Oh wait, he hates Bezos.

[LisaM]

6. As a consumer, I can't support this.

I try to avoid the self checkout lines for the same reason. Same with the bank, I do a lot of my business in person.

We can't automate ourselves out of having jobs for people. And, I've worked in retail and I liked it. If the pay was better, I probably would have stayed a lot longer.

I also, by the way, miss the older cashiers at grocery stores who had been there for years, and had seen it all. They were people well cast in decent paying jobs, they seemed to enjoy it, and I liked the experience of interacting with them.

Aside from actual conditions which make interaction difficult (disability, agoraphobia, etc.), I don't understand the aversion to human interaction anyway. I was reading an article about GrubHub once (another company to avoid, BTW), and one user enthused that she could order, pay for, and have a meal brought to her "without ever seeing another human being!"

As long as we continue to embrace automation and avoid interaction, our world is going to get increasingly more splintered. I think part of the divide now is that we don't spend enough time with other people.

[rzemanfl]

26. My aversion to human interaction comes from knowing about half

of all strangers voted for Orange Julius Caesar. That makes my skin crawl.

[LisaM]

28. Well, that's not going to bridge any divides.

This sounds awful. I know someone who works in a grocery, BTW, and his son has severe autism. He already was laid off from a job as a corporate music buyer at a bookstore. He needs this job (and he likes it). He's not very happy about this turn of affairs.

It's like Uber. Their real purpose isn't "ride sharing". Their real goal is driverless cars, even though now they are advertising it as this perfect world of second incomes where you have so much freedom to set your schedule, blah blah blah.

[rzemanfl]

29. I don't want to bridge any divides.

I'm sixty-nine years old and have had my fill of holier than thou people, pompous asses and serial liars. Trump voters are to me like dog droppings I have to be careful not to step in. I have no inclination to wish them a good day, excuse myself to them or piss on them should they catch fire.

Sorry about your friend.

[LisaM]

35. Well, that's all well and good. But take a look at these two comments

Last edited Tue Dec 6, 2016, 03:35 AM - Edit history (1)

They are reader comments to the USA Today article about the Amazon Go store. There really are perfectly good people living out in "the sticks" (where I'm from) and there are perfectly good people using WIC, too, and I think it would behoove us to consider both of the comments below so we can connect with the people who made these comments and who either feel left behind in rural areas (probably didn't vote) or who resent the social safety net (probably voted for Trump).

“Amazon seems to be abandoning the rural customers in favor of those in major metropolitan areas. They constantly improve services and delivery to the large population centers and constantly degrade services to small communities and rural areas. I cancelled my Prime membership because fast/free delivery became a total joke and broken promise.”

"I'd pay more not to stand in line behind someone with those WIC vouchers. Hell, it's irritating enough waiting for someone to pull a debit card out of their purse acting like they forgot they have to pay for their stuff."

[rzemanfl]

36. I lived "in the sticks" once. Could not stand it.

The first person's beef is probably more with UPS than Amazon.

The second person sounds like someone who pays cash and is as irritable as I am these days.

[LanternWaste]

53. Hence, your aversion to humanity is relatively brand new?

Hence, your aversion to humanity is relatively brand new?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

7. Becoming too dependent on microchips leaves us vulnerable.

A large electromagnetic pulse can make it crash in a hurry, whether it's from a solar CME or a high-altitude nuclear blast.

People in rural areas where food is grown and there's less dependence on electricity should fare better in that situation, and they'll have their guns to help protect it.

[OnlinePoker]

11. I guess I'm screwed.

In this future world, it looks like I will need a smart phone but I have had zero need for one to this point in my life. I wouldn't even know how to turn one on.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

14. My eyesight isn't good enough to use them.

I struggled too much with the smart phones that co-workers let me try, anyway.

I highly doubt that our future economy will revolve around them or similar technology. It's also only a matter of time before a huge CME from the Sun wrecks our electronic-dependent country.

Regarding technology and disability...
My legally blind brother needed to provide a full bank report for his HUD apartment renewal. The woman who runs that apartment used to get the information herself (after getting his permission), but she claimed there was a policy change and now the residents had to do it themselves.
The bank's representative refused to mail a yearly statement to my brother, saying it was now their policy to only email them. My brother can't see well enough for email and he told her that. It didn't matter.
I drove him to the bank instead.

[Worried senior]

20. Terrible

customer service.

[YOHABLO]

12. I suppose the elite will always love Whole Foods. I'm thinking drones.

For delivery of course.

[TeamPooka]

13. Trump doesn't care about American jobs.

[mpcamb]

15. It was probably folly to think he ever did.

I think this fits right in with the 'grab and go' mentality mirrored in his cabinet picks.

[mpcamb]

16. Cut corners, make a bundle, hit the door running

And then shield the money in the Carribean.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. That sounds awful.

Just sounds depressing and insular. Not that I love standing in line,but still.

[Xipe Totec]

22. I look forward to the day robot workers walk in to these shops

to buy robot baby food for their robot babies.

Oh, wait, robots don't have babies...

And don't need food...

And don't earn money...

So they can't buy things...

So the stores will collapse for lack of customers.

[Nay]

55. Stores seem to be collapsing already. Now, I admit that I never was much of

a shopper. I generally go in with an item in mind, look at the selection, buy it, and get the hell out. I might eyeball stuff on my way out, but shopping was never a pleasure or a hobby.

Last week I wanted to buy a couple of long-sleeved T shirts for Mr Nay. None to be found! Anywhere! There were plenty of coats, hoodies, jackets, vests, short-sleeved T shirts, but no long. When I was in the stores (Penney, Sears, Marshall's, Steinmart, Dick's Sporting Goods) I was pretty unimpressed with the styles, patterns, designs, and quality of almost all the stuff. IMO, color/styling, patterns, etc., have become extremely ugly over the past 10 or 15 years, but that may just be me. It's as if everyone has given up on doing anything competently, and ugly crap from China is all that is available in what used to be the stores shopped by middle class consumers.

I finally had to order online and hope the shirts fit. I hate ordering clothing on line, but what can you do?

PS -- I went on the weekend and none of the stores were busy. There were lots of cars in the lot, but the stores didn't seem full at all.

[Hekate]

24. I much prefer human interaction. Given the choice between self-checkout and having a cashier...

...I'll take the cashier every time. I don't use ATMs either.

I am obsolete....

[DeminPennswoods]

40. Here's the thing

There's always an employee or two hanging around the self-check out lanes to help when customers get stuck or do something wrong. I've found these employees will often do the self-check out for you if you look lost and pitiful enough, too. TBH, the self-check out lines are a lot of trouble since you have to read the instructions and punch screens. It's so much faster to go through a cashiered line where the cashier knows what they're doing and zips your stuff through the scanner.

[christx30]

42. Myself, I use automated every chance I get.

Sometimes I get into a hurry and I don't want to spend 30 minutes in line at Walmart. If I could have a way of just getting my stuff and going, I'd grab that up in a heartbeat.

One time my wife had just gotten out of the hospital, hadn't eaten anything and had low blood sugar. I stopped at a 7-11 to grab her a quick bite and stood, waiting while the checker had a nice, easy going conversation with the person in front of me. It felt like 10 minutes. Meanwhile my diabetic wife is sitting in the car trying not to throw up. I don't want to be rude, but I have to get going, ya know? And the "joy" of talking to the checker isn't enough. Give me a robot any day.

[Sunlei]

25. 4.6% unemployment today & I don't think the 4.6% want to hand mine coal or be career cashiers.

when a machine will do it safer and faster.

[Travis_0004]

31. We have that today

I go into the grocery store, pick up a scan gun. I pull something off the shelf, scan it, and bag it.

I then hit the checkout button, scan my credit card, and walk out of the store.

[Shandris]

32. May as well rename Amazon to Stuffer Shack and get it over with.

Mmmm, can't wait for that Nutri-soy flavor faucet.

Sad that Nadine isn't here anymore. She always caught my Shadowrun references.

[DeminPennswoods]

33. The Horn and Hardart Automat is back!

For those of you too young to remember. The Automat was a diner/restaurant where food was placed in glass-doored cubbie holes, you picked out what you wanted, put money in the slot, got your food, ate and left. I went to one as a kid and it was the coolest thing ever!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat

Only a century and its back in style.

[katmondoo]

59. I remember the Automat

I lived on 39th street NYC and the Automat was on the corner of 42nd street, a short walk. The food was good.

[quakerboy]

34. This is why we need to fundamentally change things

Its been apparent for a while now that a lot of jobs done are simply not necessary, except to the income of those doing them.

We need reduce the work week accordingly. Full time should be dropped to 30 or even fewer hours a week, with wages rising commensurately, so that the jobs that are still necessary can be done by more people who have more free time and still make a living.

[SubjectiveLife78]

38. Fewer hours, at more money

When more people are needed less. Somewhere the equation doesn't quite work.

[quakerboy]

44. In what way?

We need fewer hours of work to support the quality of life we would like to have as a society. Therefore it makes sense to pay people more money for fewer hours of work, and spread the work among more people.

The alternative is to pay fewer people smaller amounts, while slowly phasing others out of the workforce perminantly, and then arguing over whether to let them starve or provide them public assistance, while consolidating more and more of the money created by the increased productivity and decreased worker costs among a very small number of people

[SubjectiveLife78]

58. If society needs fewer people for the job to get done

Why are they going to pay more people, more money, for less work by each person that isn't needed? I say that as someone that does think some sort of guaranteed income is going to have to come about, I just think it'll be messy getting there, if we get there.

And there's always more than one alternative to anything. It just comes down to what context people are willing to live in. If one size must fit all, then alternatives decrease in number. One size fitting all is the general trend of civilization throughout its history in various forms though, so, here we are.

[quakerboy]

60. Some work is needed. for now

The fact is that a worker today can put in 4 hours and accomplish what a worker 100 years ago needed 8 hours to do.They are not accomplishing less work. They are just doing it faster, given the use of technology

I guess my thought is that pay should be based on the amount/quality of work accomplished, not the number of hours spent?

[SubjectiveLife78]

37. Trump's outrageous promises about jobs?

Which political figure isn't saying the same thing? The best answer the vast majority come up with is get more education. In a world where more people are expected to get more education, decreasing the overall value of that education. Unless it's in something very specialized. Unless more people figure out they need to get a more specialized education. All the while being endlessly chased by automation, waiting for humans that make mistakes to make a mistake, or need to sleep to sleep, or eat to eat, or have kids.

[FarCenter]

39. I doubt that it will work, since there is nothing to prevent a flash mob from raiding the store

On the other hand, a store where you order the items on a kiosk, a robot picks and bags the groceries, and then delivers them over a secure counter would be much more secure.

Security services will be the big growth industry of the future.

[steve2470]

47. +1. nt

[Oneironaut]

45. This is amazing. We need a universal income now.

I'm afraid that, by the time we realize the need for a universal income, it will be too late. It's going to become impossible to give everyone a job. I think it already might be.

The problem is getting around the "free money" stigma.

[HughBeaumont]

51. Well, that and the US now having a nearly 100% teabagger government.

One that promises to SHRED what threadbare social safety net we DO have, while they should be advancing and enhancing it.

[Nay]

56. Exactly. It's the teabagger/RW chance to get rid of all the "useless eaters." Wonder

what will happen to all the Trump voters who are stunned to find out that they themselves are on the chopping block? SNAP.

[HughBeaumont]

57. It's like the Dead Kennedys once said:

"In a real Fourth Reich, you'll be the first to go".

Well, now they'll see.

Trumpkins don't see themselves as useless eaters. They're merely "temporarily embarrassed millionaires".

[steve2470]

46. Theft ? How do they prevent theft ?

I can't see how they can avoid hiring real human beings for security.

[Danascot]

48. Relevant article on the disappearance of jobs here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028336166

[MosheFeingold]

49. This happened before, you know

The industrial revolution, chiefly.

Just wait until 3D printing puts almost all manufacturing (and construction) out of business.

Not to mention self-driving trucks, cotton harvesters, etc.

The jobs that will be left will be: (1) highly specialized jobs; (2) craftsman work/artisian; (3) domestic servants; (4) other high-end service jobs; (5) some agricultural; and (6) soldier (albeit highly augmented with robotics).

Think Dowton Abbey meets Blade Runner.

[HughBeaumont]

50. There is a difference between that era and this one, though . . .

Poster BlindTiresias explains it:

The people saying we will just plow through this with grit and determination are part of the problem, because they are insisting on an individual solution for a structural problem. Individuals who say that automation is exactly the same as industrialization are also incorrect and economically as well as politically illiterate. The problem with this position is twofold: First, automation is distinct from simple industrialization in that industrialization multiplied productive efforts but still demanded a large body of labor, automation has no such problem as the core phenomenon of automation is exactly the removal of this body of labor while simultaneously multiplying productive efforts. Secondly, even if we grant that humans will still have a large place in an automated economy the question of what to do with the wealth generated by these productive enterprises is entirely a political one. On average, life got much worse for most people after industrialization and it was only through organized resistance and violent action that gains were made to make the economy more livable for people. We have no such resistance today as the left has been broken and the post-left liberals have essentially signed on to the same economic theories as the right wing. That itself bodes ill of harnessing automation in a positive way and, at this point in time, suggests a greater likelihood that things will get more darwinian and the elite will double down on the existing ideology that preserves their power.

I will also note to everyone saying it is "not that bad" because some jobs will exist: Look at how much we were hurting with 10% unemployment. Now imagine 20% permanent structural unemployment and, at best, a diminished welfare system marked by perennial lockdowns, controversies, instability, and an increasing amount of gatekeepers to ensure only the "worthy poor" are getting their pittance. Let us extend that further to 30 or 40% structural unemployment and combined harried temp work. It does not matter if some people can find work, obviously this is the case, but as a society we will be torn apart by an automation that is not being managed by political forces, rendering any individual solution simply a mix of desperation, blindness, and the same individuated greed that enables this phenomenon.