Indiana bill seeks to eliminate requirement for gun permits

[AKing]

Source: NWI Times

INDIANAPOLIS — Gun rights advocates view the upcoming legislative session as their best bet to get rid of an Indiana law that requires a license to carry handguns.

The controversial legislation didn't advance during the 2016 session, but supporters believe this time could be different after sweeping Republican wins on Election Day and the appointment of Republican state Rep. Ben Smaltz to the House Public Policy Committee, which acts as a gatekeeper on such bills.

Smaltz has been a staunch advocate of gun rights.

Republican state Rep. Jim Lucas plans to file the bill when lawmakers convene in January.

He and other advocates of the bill, including the National Rifle Association, see licensing requirements and fees as unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

Read more: http://www.nwitimes.com/ap/indiana-bill-seeks-to-eliminate-requirement-for-gun-permits/article_2e904e37-ab47-5636-97f0-4aa5889eec2f.html

---

Yeah,let's make it as easy as possible for the gangbangers,terrorists and the mentally unstable to buy guns.

[kimbutgar]

1. A state that I will never travel to.

I suspect if they have any tourism in that state it will dry up real fast if they pass this law.

[Trenzalore]

19. Lived in Indiana for 4 years

There is nothing to see there.

[phylny]

35. The only place I've ever lived where someone has used the "n" word in front of me

was in Northern Indiana. And I've lived in NY, DE, PA, IL, and VA.

[Trenzalore]

40. Lot of good people there

Had to leave a church when they told me God was picking George W. Bush for President.

That all being said there is nothing to see in Indiana. A few lakes...my ex lived in an interesting town on Lake Michigan. Other than that it is farms and closed manufacturing facilities.

[former9thward]

63. Indiana is the center of the U.S. Steel industry.

I guess that doesn't count.

[YOHABLO]

42. Well lots of corn, from what I've heard.

[Trenzalore]

46. Indianopolis is ok

Outside of that you got IU and nothing.

[wordpix]

48. I don't normally go there but now it's a boycott in my book

[former9thward]

62. AZ has had the law for years.

And we have no end of tourism.

[Adrahil]

72. To be clear....

This will change very little in this state. The firearms permit is issued on a shall issue basis. Almost anyone who wants one can get one.

[elleng]

2. WTF!!!!

[global1]

3. Why Do I Get The Feeling That The Repugs Are Wanting To....

thin the herd.

[wordpix]

49. like Scrooge said about the poor, thinning is good for the "surplus population"

[J_William_Ryan]

4. One can be a staunch advocate of gun rights

while at the same time supporting licensing requirements to carry a concealed firearm.

“He and other advocates of the bill, including the National Rifle Association, see licensing requirements and fees as unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.”

Nonsense.

The courts have consistently held that licensing requirements for carrying concealed firearms is perfectly Constitutional.

[iluvtennis]

5. OMG. And to make it easier for more Sandy Hooks and Columbines and Colorado Movie theaters and...

[Gidney N Cloyd]

6. Then Illinois should pass a law banning Indianans from traveling here.

[LittleGirl]

7. Native people

from Indiana are called Hoosiers. Or are from the Pottawatomie tribe.
This law is the stupid coming out.

[mountain grammy]

8. Wow, what could possibly go wrong?

[pablo_marmol]

55. Wow, what could possibly be a more trite cliche?

Why don't you tell us what's gone wrong in the 11 states that currently allow constitutional carry? You do know that Vermont was the first to go with this, right? (Rhetorical question......of course you didn't.)

[mountain grammy]

64. Actually, I do know the 11 states of which you speak

8 of the 11 are part of the top 20 states for the most gun deaths per 100,000 of population.

Indiana only permits handguns, but wants these to be deregulated.. why? Indiana is in the top 20 for gun deaths per capita also.

Oh, by the way, Vermont is not in the top twenty. I did know that.

Oh, and the states with the strictest gun laws have the lowest number of gun deaths..

Google it. That's what could possibly go wrong.

[pablo_marmol]

70. "Oh, and the states with the strictest gun laws have the lowest number of gun deaths.."

Oh FFS........I don't have to google it. You're full of it. Right off the top of my head there's my home state -- CA. Strict gun laws and no discernible effect of those laws. And then there's Chicago. Derp! Yeah........those strict gun laws have really made a difference.

It's common knowledge that gun violence is concentrated in dense urban areas. North Dakota, Idaho, Wyoming --- lots of guns and few gun murders.

But let's keep beating this silly-ass drum we have for decades now. It's worked out real well for us.

Edited to add:

Try something brand new. READ A BOOK instead of brief, cherry picked articles that support your biases. You've got no excuse, given the number that have been written by liberal and left-leaning authors:

https://www.amazon.com/Restricting-Handguns-Liberal-Skeptics-Speak/dp/0884270335

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=wright+rossi+under+the+gun&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Awright+rossi+under+the+gun

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=wright+rossi+armed+and+considered+dangerous&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Awright+rossi+armed+and+considered+dangerous

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=targeting+guns

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=kates+kleck+armed&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Akates+kleck+armed

[mountain grammy]

71. Speaking of cherry picking

Last edited Fri Dec 30, 2016, 11:51 AM - Edit history (1)

I've also read a lot on this subject and I'm convinced federal gun control is necessary and certain weapons should not be sold to the public.. There are sound arguments for that position.

We will never agree and I'll never stop advocating for gun control for personal and practical reasons.

Happy New Year.. be safe.

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. I guess we have that here in Missouri.

We certainly seems to have an uptick in road rage incidents. We have had several people shot and killed lately.

[ToolMaker]

84. Kinda...

It hasn't actually gone into effect yet. The legislature overturned the governors veto, and the law goes into effect Jan. 1st. While an uptick may have taken place, to say that it is a result of a new law that hasn't gone into effect yet, is probably inaccurate, although it is possible that the people have misunderstood that effective date could account for it.

However, with regard to carrying in a vehicle, nothing is really changing. Missouri passed CCW laws, requiring a permit, in 2004. But, contained within that law was a clause that allowed anyone who could legally possess a gun, the ability to carry a handgun, concealed, within their vehicle. The handgun can be legally concealed within the vehicle itself or on the body of said person within the vehicle.

JW

[YOHABLO]

10. Sick!

Oh yeah, that'd be real good.

[radical noodle]

11. The concealed carry permit that Indiana currently has isn't much anyway

I got one a long time ago when I was driving to and from work in the dark over country highways. I filled out and signed a form with name, address, etc and they sent it in to make sure I didn't have a criminal history. Then they sent me a card in the mail. It was less trouble than buying a gun.

[40degreesflaps]

12. It's Called...

...Constitutional Carry and it's the hottest thing going in Second Amendment advocacy:

http://www.gunlaws.com/ConstitutionalCarryIndex.htm

[radical noodle]

13. Thanks for the link

Constitutional carry is new to me. We're in Florida now and a short training class is required for concealed carry here. The NRA will never be satisfied until everyone is armed to the teeth and we're functioning like the old west.

[billh58]

24. Court: No right to carry concealed weapons in public

SAN FRANCISCO » Dealing a blow to gun supporters, a federal appeals court ruled today that Americans do not have a constitutional right to carry concealed weapons in public.

In a dispute that could ultimately wind up before the Supreme Court, a divided 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said local law enforcement officials can place significant restrictions on who is allowed to carry concealed guns.

By a vote of 7-4, the court upheld a California law that says applicants must cite a “good cause” to obtain a concealed-carry permit. Typically, people who are being stalked or threatened, celebrities who fear for their safety, and those who routinely carry large amounts of cash or other valuables are granted permits.

“We hold that the Second Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public,” Circuit Judge William A. Fletcher wrote for the majority.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/06/09/breaking-news/court-no-right-to-carry-concealed-weapons-in-public/

Neither the Constitution nor the Second Amendment authorize nor address the issue of concealed public carry of lethal weapons.

[sarisataka]

25. Should carry be limited

To people like Trump? He has one of the rare NYC carry permits, typically limited to the rich and politically connected.

[billh58]

27. Not going to argue with

a gunner. The court ruling is what it is.

[sarisataka]

29. Yes it is

And states may pass laws allowing carry with no permit... Funny thing is you would probably be surprised on my view of those laws.

On the other hand, I don't think rights should be limited to those who can afford them.

BTW thank you for the promotion but "Gunner" is incorrect. I was not a Chief Warrant Officer.

[sarisataka]

32. Gunner is another

Term for a Marine Warrant Officer.

I will pass the opportunity to label you by a group you post in.

[yagotme]

66. Perhaps the EGA fooled him...

Semper Fi.

[pablo_marmol]

56. "Not going to argue with a gunner."

Ha ha ha! Such courage!

[LanternWaste]

65. I watched a physics professor avoid arguing with a creationist

I watched a physics professor avoid arguing with a creationist. Such courage, as well...

(insert distinction lacking relevant difference below to better validate bias)

[pablo_marmol]

69. Hysterical remark, considering...........

.......the fact that it's the gun restriction supporters whose beliefs are faith-based, and pro-rights Dems whose beliefs are empirical evidence based.

Even when presented with easily verifiable facts, and even upon discovering that a number of liberal criminologists don't agree with the Democratic Party's position on "gun control" restriction supporters behave like four-year-olds. (Sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!)

The basic premise behind gun restriction is no less faith-based than the beliefs of creationists and global warming deniers.

[40degreesflaps]

47. You and I...

...both know how much weight the NRA carries these days. Had it not been for the NRA, Gore would have been President in 2000 because he would not have lost those states Bill carried in 1992 and 1996. That's a fact.

If Congress passes and Trump signs a nationwide concealed carry reciprocity law, there will be very little Sacramento can do about it and nothing the San Francisco authorities can do about it. I was at a party about three weeks ago attended by the mayor of Hercules (California) and when asked about this issue, he refused to comment saying it was too hot. He thought it would happen and the local police and sheriffs departments have absolutely no idea what to do about it.

[Paladin]

26. "Constitutional Carry" my ass.

That's a feel-good, attention-deflecting term that the Gun Enthusiasts have come up with, to take attention off what a bunch of douchebags the open-carriers are shown to be, time and time again. There is nothing definitive in the Constitution about open carry, and no one who supports the Democratic Party's stance on the regulation and usage of firearms---as opposed to that of the NRA and Antonin Scalia---should give credence to such a term by using it.

[billh58]

31. "Gun Enthusiasts?"

How about the more descriptive term "gun nuts?"

[Paladin]

37. I try to avoid needless whining and alerts from the pro-gunners.

I try to steer clear of penis references when dealing with them, for the same reason.

But, hey: "Constitutional Carry"? In capital letters? That's something that needs to be challenged. It's nothing more than flagrant propaganda, yet another effort by the pro-gun militants to control the vocabulary. Let them continue to refer to it as "open carry," whereupon we can produce open carry group photos, in all their lily-white, Momma-still-dresses-'em glory......

[pablo_marmol]

61. "I try to steer clear of penis references when dealing with them, for the same reason."

Interesting. You would think that a person would steer clear of such references to avoid appearing like an absolute infant.

[40degreesflaps]

45. First Of All...

...you're not going to put words in my mouth. Don't even try.

Second, that is what they call it. I do a lot of work in big corporate environments and one of the other guys on the team called it that. I did a little research and "going Constitutional" is one of the hot trends especially in the south and west.

It ain't the United States of California and Massachusetts. Some of us know that. Others of us still have to learn.

[Paladin]

50. I'm in Texas. And it's still a bullshit guncentric term.

Don't like words being put in your mouth? Follow your own fucking advice.

[pablo_marmol]

57. "Others of us still have to learn."

I'm afraid our team is never going to learn. We'll keep our culture war going against the eebil "gunners" and keep pissing away elections. It's what we do.

[friendly_iconoclast]

77. Antigun types are a secular version of Bible thumpers: Unpleasant moralizers that aren't nearly...

...as popular as they believe themselves to be.

[pablo_marmol]

78. Absolutely true. The "progressive" equivalent of "Creation Science" followers.

I'm old enough to remember the bumper stickers that read "The Moral Majority is Neither." Given the current state of the Democratic Party, if we continue on the path we're on, we'll soon be irrelevant.

I just finished a conversation with a member who believes that the "NRA has blocked Congress from moving on gun violence research." How do you deal with people who refuse to even consider the possiblilty that we've been less than honest w/regard to gun violence? I've grown deeply cynical and pessimistic. I'll no longer donate to Democratic Party candidates. Why should I, when my donation is essentially neutralized by our dishonesty? This points to massive problem that the True Believers will never grasp: Activism is suppressed........because Democrats who know the facts regarding gun violence/gun restriction feel that any time donated to the Party is wasted.

I'm afraid that we're in for an even bumpier ride than we currently think we are. I've all but given up.

[HoneyBadger]

14. Something like a quarter of the states have Constitutional Carry (no permit needed) now

in Bernie's home state, you can carry legally at 16 with no permit required or even offered.

[Vinca]

16. Vermont has one big difference.

The sane people outnumber the crazies by a very large number. There are not many gun-related incidents when compared to other states and you'll look long and hard to find people swaggering down the street openly carrying a weapon. I'm sure if there was a problem they would pass legislation because that's the way Vermont is. FYI, back in the 80's I was a cop in Vermont and I can't remember one incident involving a gun. I personally had a complaint about a hunter shooting at a deer from his truck by my house, but I had much bigger complaints about the ATV and snowmobile enthusiasts who ruin the quality of life with their noise.

[Trenzalore]

20. Vermont is full of gun nuts

It is why Bernie and Howard Dean were to the right of the national party on the issue.

[Vinca]

21. Show me the data.

There's a hunting culture, but there doesn't seem to be the same need to compensate for a small body part by lugging around a firearm. Gun-related crime in Vermont is a fraction of what it is in other states.

[Trenzalore]

22. There are no people there

The largest city is the size of what would be considered a town in most states.

[Vinca]

23. Which is why they are monitoring the situation well. If they needed legislation they'd enact it.

[HoneyBadger]

36. I spent the year in Plattsburgh, NY across the lake (short ferry ride) from Bernie's new house

About the same community, very pro gun, opiate problem, very little gun crime. I actually lived by Bobby's Lounge, the bar where cops go after work and order a perch sandwich and beer by the bucket from the tattooed waitress. I am not kidding that the big crimes each week were lost dogs and wallets. Strong gun laws, some of the strongest in the country, but they were not what kept crime low.

[Trenzalore]

39. It is impossible to compare Vermont to other states

I live in the 3rd often forgotten largest region of PA. We are 3 times the size of VT largest region in terms of population.

I get gun control. If your best protection is a Statie who might respond in 30 minutes I get the reliance of a gun. It needs to be balanced with the urban situations in this country where a majority of the citizens live. I think in the old west it was common for people to check their guns before entering town.

[HoneyBadger]

41. Plattsburgh is so close to Vermont that you step on the ferry in one and step off in the other

[pablo_marmol]

60. "Strong gun laws, some of the strongest in the country,.......

........but they were not what kept crime low.

Bingo. After you subtract the 2/3 of gun homicides that are suicides, the remaining 2/3 is criminal-on-criminal violence -- which any halfway sane person understands is almost completely related to the drug trade.

[pablo_marmol]

80. You'll never convince The True Believers.......

........that is isn't the guns, it's who has them. It's so frustrating that we go so damn stupid on this issue.

[sarisataka]

34. Currently 18 states and territories

Have some form permitless carry (including Missouri which goes into effect January 1st and Washington DC which has been stayed by the court)

[Vinca]

15. They run campaigns on the violence in Chicago, but the gangs in Chicago get their guns from Indiana.

[Chipper Chat]

17. Indiana just passed a law that constitutionally now protects

the right to hunt and fish. I wonder if they will eliminate fees for fishing licenses? Don't bet on it.

[sarisataka]

18. Correction to your

Added comment, this would in no way make it easier to purchase a gun.

[Chasstev365]

28. Good Idead!

Maybe now Hoosiers can sell them to each other instead of selling guns illegally on the Southside of Chicago!

[Eleanors38]

38. What? Indiana is trying to catch up with that right-wing state of Vermont?

[pablo_marmol]

59. !

[sl8]

43. How does this make it easier to buy guns?

With regards to your comment about the ability of gangbangers, terrorists and the mentally unstable to buy guns, how does this bill apply?

I only skimmed the article, so I may have missed the applicability to purchases, but it seems to apply to carry permits, no?

Thanks.

[friendly_iconoclast]

76. It doesn't, the OP is merely antigun propagandizing

[Adrahil]

44. Well, keep in mind....

It is a shall issue state. If you want a license, it's a form and a fee and that's it. No approvals required. The only check done is to see if there is a legal reason you can't hold the license, which I think is limited to being convicted of a felony.

But this will have no impact on buying guns. You do not need the carry license to buy a gun.

[RKP5637]

51. A state I don't even care to fly over. n/t

[Hoyt]

52. Does this surprise anyone, Indiana gave us Pence?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

53. Next up, a requirement for all

to carry.

A lot of these 2A zealots would really love that sort of a country.

[pablo_marmol]

54. "Yeah, let's make it as easy as possible for the gangbangers......

.......terrorists and the mentally unstable to buy guns."

WTH are you talking about? This bill has nothing to do with gun sales.

And are you aware that Vermont -- that right wing haven -- was the first state to adopt constitutional carry? Ten other states have done the same since......with no issues. But we'll keep shrieking and wringing our hands ---- just as we have done every. single. time. a state has allowed it's citizens concealed carry.

[yagotme]

67. "Blood in the streets."

Don't forget "blood in the streets."

[pablo_marmol]

68. Yup. And you always get 'blood on the streets'...........

.........when society has been reduced to 'The Wild, Wild West'!

[yagotme]

81. Will Smith keeps popping in my head

when I hear that...

[pablo_marmol]

82. !

[hollowdweller]

74. We have permitless carry here where I live

I have lots of guns but I have no motivation to carry a concealed weapon. I lose my watch all the time, I'd sure as hell not want to be carrying a gun.

On the other hand since it passed not much of a change in shootings or crime, so this is not a big issue for me.

[pablo_marmol]

79. Always refreshing to encounter members with the right priorities.

On the other hand since it passed not much of a change in shootings or crime, so this is not a big issue for me.

Thank you. A truth that the hair-on-fire/factose intolerant will never grasp.

[Kablooie]

75. I'll bet this is a sign of the future.

[Devil Child]

83. Nothing to do with gun purchasing

Did you read the article? These changes will in no way change the established process in Indiana for purchasing firearms. So I don't understand why you feel this bill will make it easier for prohibited individuals from purchasing guns.

This bill is seeking constitutional carry in Indiana. Same as here in my state, streets haven't filled with blood yet despite the shrieking that it would.

[0rganism]

85. guns for all, abortion for none, healthcare for those who can afford it

welcome to our New America, papers please

[Kang Colby]

86. Indiana joins other far right states like Maine and Vermont.

LOL...

This is a good move. IMO, the only "carry permit" you need is the 2nd Amendment.

Hopefully we see several more states move to Constitutional Carry in 2017.