Trump Lawyers To Court Reviewing Muslim Travel Ban: Stay Out Of It

[Amaryllis]

Source: Huffington Post

Theres every indication that President Donald Trump and the courts are headed for a constitutional showdown, and only one of them can emerge the victor.

The Trump administration late Saturday urged an appeals court to immediately put on hold a judges nationwide order that effectively stopped, albeit temporarily, Trumps de facto travel ban on all refugees and on immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries.

The federal government has begun complying with the order. And as expected, the president has taken to personally attacking the judge, U.S. District Judge James Robart, whom he smeared in a series of Twitter posts that say more about Trumps apparent disregard for the constitutional order of things than anything else.

But lawyers for the administration are making a more nuanced case in legal filings and at oral arguments in the several courts hearing cases over his executive order ― including in an emergency request seeking to block the ruling Robart issued on Friday. The administrations argument, if accepted by the courts, is one that could give Trump nearly unfettered power to go even beyond his initial executive order.

The gist of it: Courts should stay out of this altogether, or else national security will be at risk.

More:

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-doj-legal-argument-for-immigration-order_us_589761e3e4b0406131375da7?c1czdkd9pn32wewmi&

---

So this is far from over, and it's looking likely that it will go all the way to SCOTUS with Trump lawyers arguing he was well within his rights because the safety of the nation is at stake.

[madaboutharry]

1. Fuck that shit.

The Constitution is more powerful than that little punk jackass.

[Still In Wisconsin]

4. Fuck it indeed, with a fire extinguisher, sideways.

[Glamrock]

2. And, fuck that shit.

If he was worried about our safety, he wouldn't have given the mentally unstable the ability to buy guns. You wanna show me you're worried about my safety? Rescind that order. Until then? Piss off!

[radical noodle]

3. I see many Trump supporters on Facebook already

saying that it's not right for the courts to be able to overturn the orders of the president and that it's never happened before. I posted on several of them that it is the way our constitution is written, but they believe trump's nonsense.

[Samantha]

11. I was looking for one of Obama's Executive Orders and/or one of George W. Bush's* when I found this

Last edited Mon Feb 6, 2017, 11:34 AM - Edit history (1)

"In 1935, the Supreme Court overturned five of President Franklin Roosevelt's executive orders (6199, 6204, 6256, 6284, 6855)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

One of Truman's was overturned:

In Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer (1952) the Supreme Court invalidated Truman’s decree on steel mills, on the grounds that he was attempting to make law (a legislative function), not merely carrying out (or “executing”) existing law.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2013/01/28/when-it-comes-to-abuse-of-presidential-power-obama-is-a-mere-piker/#71e5c391601a

I am sure there must be others.

Sam

PS The legislature can overturn an Executive Order as well:

"Congress has the power to overturn an executive order by passing legislation that invalidates it. Congress can also refuse to provide funding necessary to carry out certain policy measures contained with the order or to legitimize policy mechanisms. In the case of the former, the president retains the power to veto such a decision; however, the Congress may override a veto with a two-thirds majority to end an executive order. It has been argued that a congressional override of an executive order is a nearly impossible event, due to the supermajority vote required and the fact that such a vote leaves individual lawmakers vulnerable to political criticism.[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

[radical noodle]

12. I was sure there had been others

but hadn't bothered to look it up. Thanks for going the extra mile. Also good to know that there are other ways, although I'm pretty certain that isn't likely to happen in the next two years.

[Warpy]

5. That big, orange man-baby hasn't been told "NO" since he was potty trained

and he's just going to have to get used to it. Even his stalwarts like McConnell disagree with him on this one and he's not going to be able to dismiss the rest of the government so he can be king and rule by proclamation.

[mercuryblues]

26. Are you sure he's potty trained?

There's a bed in Russia......

[Akacia]

6. It is amazing....

that whenever I think he cannot go any lower or be more ridiculous he manages to top himself.

[cstanleytech]

7. A bullshit argument because if national security was truly the reason then Saudi Arabia technically

should be on that list since most of the hijackers from 9/11 were from there, so no this isnt about national security its about Trump and his administration trying to see what they can get away with and its about pandering to his base that wants to deny muslims entry into the US.

[2naSalit]

8. I'm thinking it's more

trial balloon than his base at this point. He doesn't give half a shit about them, except that he needs them so he can have someone adoring him. Not that he ever had any intention, as is his MO, to actually do anything for them. He has no grasp of the fact that he is now a public servant and works for us not the other way around.

[zentrum]

9. Gorsuch will give

......him his Supreme Court victory.

[FBaggins]

14. Only if he's on the court by then

We can't stop him (absent some scandal), but we can certainly slow him down a bit.

[zentrum]

19. Trump can wait too.

He can delay his appeal until Gores is on the bench.

[FBaggins]

20. Not really

He has a 90-120 day policy that's being challenged. If it takes 3-4 months to seat him, the issue is already moot.

[zentrum]

21. Oh good. Thanks for

...that information.

[Hekate]

10. Kick

[treestar]

13. Where does the law say our "safety"

has any effect whatsoever on due process?

[riversedge]

15. I have been concerned--yes, concerned also when

Trump and his cadre mention national security in his tweets and on TV. They are very forceful and consistent and repeat the meme over and over.

Makes me wonder how much leeway the courts will give to Trump.

[paleotn]

16. Snort!

They're kidding, right? That's the gist of their argument? And that's not just me laughing. That's virtually every federal judge in the country, including all 8 supremes.

[lark]

17. Total and utter BS.

If it truly was about security, Saudi Arabia andEgypt would be included. This is about hurting brown people that DON'T do business with him. if you are a terrorist exporter and responsible for nearly 3000 American deaths, you can come and create more terror because your country gives $$ to drumpf. Sickening.

[BumRushDaShow]

18. "likely that it will go all the way to SCOTUS"

And there is not a DAMN THING in Article II of the Constitution, the portion that describes the Presidential powers, that says anything about "National Security", let alone about suddenly deactivating the judiciary. The Federalist Society member literalists on the SCOTUS should know this (but will they become hypocrites?) -

Article. II.
Section. 1.

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section. 2.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Section. 3.

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Section. 4.

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript

Of course the current occupant is in violation of this part from Section 1 -

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

[FBaggins]

22. One major correction there

It's true that there isn't anything about "deactivating the judiciary" - but Article II most definitely includes national security and foreign affairs.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President" and "The President shall be Commander in Chief" cover both of those pretty comprehensively.

[BumRushDaShow]

25. Still doesn't say what you mean

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President"

This means that the President is the overseer of the various departments/agencies of the federal government that are established by Congress. The E.O.s are merely to direct those agencies on how to carry out existing law...NOT how to circumvent it.

"The President shall be Commander in Chief"

This is related to military and has nothing to do with the E.O. that was signed. The President is overseer of the military but Congress (including via the passage of the War Powers Act that allows some Presidential involvement) calls up that military.

I.e., Congress has enacted laws that were signed by a President (or that were enacted via override of any veto or automatically enacted without signature) and Congress has the legislative powers that define what can and cannot happen - (Article I, Section 8) -

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
[div style="display:inline; background-color:#FFFF66;"]To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript

The point (supposedly) of why the "founders" did this was to put the "power" in the hands of "the people" (through their representatives) and not through some titular head, and this is why Congressional powers were defined first ("Article I&quot . The President then directs the agencies to do what Congress has enacted and paid for (and establish the regulations that support the law).

The portion in the above Article - "To Establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization" is notably what the E.O. has circumvented. I.e., Congress established laws regarding the citizenship process (e.g., legal residents/Green Cards) and the E.O. ignored these laws and illegally directed agencies to cherry-pick and refuse entry to those beyond what was already established by law.

I.e., the President CAN actively and/or aggressively petition Congress to make these exceptions and encode them IN LAW, but that did not happen here, which is why it has gone to court.

[avebury]

23. The more that Trump and his minions attack the judicial system the more likely

that John Roberts might turn out to be their worst nightmare. While Roberts is a Conservative, his first concern has always been the Supreme Court, its integrity and its legacy. He is more apt to take a step back at times when Scalia, Alito and Thomas charged forward on the uber right wing rulings. If he feels that the Trump WH threatens the SC, he might just bend over backwards to maintain an independent role of the SC as part of the checks and balance system of the Federal Government. If Gorsuch makes it onto the SC, Roberts had better watch his back. Imagine if Trump could make Gorsuch Chief Justice.

[RobinA]

27. This Was An Argument

I made yesterday in a different context. Diss away at the judiciary, Orangeface. They are a smart and entitled bunch, and they've got job security. They are used to deference. They aren't supposed to make decisions based on anything but the law, but humans be humans.

[milestogo]

24. He has the monstrous arrogance to threaten a whole branch of government.