Oil industry(delivered a clear warning to Obama): 'Huge political consequences' if pipeline rejected

[kpete]

Oil industry: 'Huge political consequences' if pipeline rejected
By Andrew Restuccia - 01/04/12 01:16 PM ET

A top oil industry official delivered a clear warning to President Obama Wednesday: approve the Keystone XL pipeline or face “huge political consequences.”

American Petroleum Institute President Jack Gerard urged Obama to quickly approve the pipeline, which would carry oil sands crude from Alberta, Canada, to refineries along the Gulf Coast.

.........................

“I think it would be a huge mistake on the part of the president of the United States to deny the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline,” Gerard said during the powerful oil industry trade association’s annual “State of American Energy” event Wednesday.

“Clearly, the Keystone XL pipeline is in the national interest. A determination to decide anything less than that I believe will have huge political consequences.”

..................

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/202359-oil-industry-keystone-rejection-will-have-huge-political-consequences-for-obama

[msongs]

1. obama threats against iran are raising oil prices. isn't that enough for them? nt

[SkyDaddy7]

6. Poor poor Iran!

Obama is being threatened by the oil industry & you found a way to complain about Obama! The lengths some of you will go just so you can be the first on thread to attack Obama is crazy! Oh well you will get what you want come November...Or Obama could win then what will you do?

[hobbit709]

40. Get your facts straight

Who started this with sanctions and threats.

[fujiyama]

45. Sanctions aren't threats

Sanctions are a perfectly diplomatic method of coercion and Obama has gone to the international community on this as well. It's not Obama's fault if they're acting all pissy now.

Sanctions don't give them carte blanche to close the Straits of Hormuz or impede the free flow of shipping in international waters.

Now on the other hand, it remains to be seen how effective these sanctions will be and countries imposing them may be shooting themselves in the foot, by raising oil prices and potentially crippling any economic recovery...

[Scootaloo]

49. They are abiding by it

The sanctions are in place in violation of the NPT. Has Iran weaponized any plutonium? No. Do we have any evidence that they're trying to? No. Have they broken the Non-Proliferation treaty in any way? No. Rather, our nation is led by excitable islamophobic ninnies like you who are pissing themselves in terror that the "ay-rabs" might not stay in the stone age.

So fuck you. imposing economic damage on the citizens of a nation because we think that their leaders might maybe perhaps be considering the possibility of perchance acquiring nuclear weapons, despite our only evidence being our own paranoia and the fervent wishes of our Warmonger and Oil lobbies, is NOT "perfectly diplomatic." All it does is make the populace suffer and chills relations between the nations needlessly.

And finally? The Straits of Hormuz are in Iran's territorial waters; they can do whatever the fuck they want to there.

[lark]

96. Total BS

Bombs are just the latest excuse for us to try to invade, take over, and control the oil from another Mid-East country. Or, even if we don't invade, blow up their fields and raise the price of oil. That's all this is, another oil grab. This has zero to do with nuclear weapons, we are totally fine with Israel having them and they are thousands of times more likely to bomb their neighbors than Iran.

[leveymg]

58. You seem to be oblivious to the assassinations and terrorism campaign against Iran.

Somebody's running that show. Now, who could that be?

[DallasNE]

97. Playing The Fear Card

Doesn't forward the discussion. Let's see how the elections in Iran go. Cooking the books in Iran will lead to more Arab Spring activity in Iran and I don't see how that is all bad. This could very well be the beginning of the end of the current regime in Iran so now is not the time to throw in the towel on pressure on Iran.

[DallasNE]

104. Speaking Of Presure On Iran, Check This Out

http://news.yahoo.com/screws-tighten-iran-big-buyers-shun-oil-015919154.html

This is what can happen when adults are in charge of policy.

[Scuba]

61. Um, no. It's us, at the behest of big oil...

[IMG][/IMG]



edited to include map showing how Iran is "threatening" the US.

[on point]

63. WRONG!! It is Israel and the US that is continually threatening Iran

Let's get some facts straight.

1. Iran is in complete LEGAL compliance with the nuclear non proliferation treaty. They have the right to refine nuclear fuel. Wether Israel and the US like it or not is non of their business. End of story.
2. They have attacked no one, but have been attacked by the US (1953), and their surrogate Iraq under Saddam.
3. They have a right to defend themselves against attack and one of the most effective against the US will be closing the straights of Hormuz.

[Doctor_J]

76. Do you really believe Iran wants a war?

Time to smell the coffee.

[Galraedia]

39. Has America gone completely stupid?

Last edited Thu Jan 5, 2012, 01:36 PM - Edit history (1)

How the fuck can you blame Obama for Iran threating to block the oil supply?

[MADem]

47. Please change your subject line.

Go in and edit your post (lower right of the post block). The "R" word is a real no-no here--it is a hurtful and disruptive term about the intellectually disabled.

Has America become completely stupid? might work.

Background material for your edification:

http://www.r-word.org/

[Change has come]

54. Thank You!

The "R" word is a no-no for everybody old enough to know better.

[MADem]

85. I took the attitude that the poster didn't mean to be mean.

And I was correct in my assumption. The term has been popularized in way too many boisterous film comedies and mature cartoons (like South Park) over the past decade or more, and people have become accustomed to using it as a synonym for stupid or foolish, so it is going to take time to walk back the use of the term. The awareness campaign has helped, but it won't happen overnight. A friendly nudge in the right direction, though, usually does the trick, I've found.

Better to educate than excoriate, that's my POV. I didn't want the poster removed from the thread for saying something that has been--though distasteful--a common part of our culture for some time. That would stifle discussion of the topic and be a punitive rather than an informative measure.

It's nice that we're now able to edit our comments at any time; if we all start interacting more positively, maybe we'll reduce use of the ALERT button to a rare occurrence.

[boppers]

56. Ah, the euphemism treadmill strikes again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism_treadmill#Euphemism_treadmill

[MADem]

84. Yes, this is true. I suggest you use one of the "old school" medical definitions, instead.

Moron, imbecile, or feeble-minded, perhaps--they're solidly in the "insult" category now, and are no longer associated with present-day medical descriptors of persons suffering from intellectual disabilities.

The bottom line is that the phrase is hurtful to many people, to the point where famous television stars are making PSAs about it. No amount of railing about political correctness or euphemism treadmills will change this simple fact. It's like some old codger insisting that the term "colored" is just fine because he used it routinely as a child.

Times change, and we need to change with them.

[BobbyBoring]

87. What is the "R" word?

I must be retarded or something as I haven't a clue~

[MADem]

94. Does behaving in a hurtful, disruptive and uncivil manner give you a thrill?

Try clicking on the link I provided in my "Please change your subject line" post, and you will be edified.

You might think you're funny, but you're alone in that opinion.

[Doctor_J]

98. I'd much rather be called retarded than republican

so i guess it depends on your reference frame.

[leveymg]

59. From all appearances, it has. Hope you like your newer, bigger, wider wars.

[fujiyama]

46. What "threats" are those?

Sanctions aren't threats. Iran should come into compliance with the NPT.

[onehandle]

2. Please. Like the recess appointments today didn't repaint the target on his back.

Like the target ever went away.

Screw you jerks.

[JDPriestly]

9. To whom are you referring as jerks, onehandle?

I don't understand your post.

Thanks.

[onehandle]

15. The oil industry. Who else? nt

[JDPriestly]

102. Thanks. It wasn't clear.

[ixion]

3. Making threats like that really ought to be illegal

Allowing a corporation, or industry, to threaten an elected official is wrong.

[movonne]

14. I agree with you...and who knows how far the threats have gone.....

[Jackpine Radical]

19. Well, ya gotta know that the threats will be made in private in any case.

Might aas well have them in the open, I'd think.

Anyway, what's worse--big carrots or big sticks, when it comes to subverting the public interst?

[leftyohiolib]

37. 1st admendment, "corporations are people, my friend " willard romney

[usrname]

38. If the goals and desires of the oil companies do not mesh with the best interests of the USA

then, their actions are treasonous and they should be tried for treason. If Obama says, "The XL pipeline is not in the best interest of the United States." And the oil companies try to play politics against that, then the administration has the right and duty to try them for conspiracy (since it's an association of oil companies) to commit treason. There's a specific penalty for treason: death by execution, the only crime and penalty enumerated in the constitution. Then, after hanging all those goobers, nationalize the oil companies and put all the profits into the treasury.

[whathehell]

71. Yes..It seems a blatant, brazen admission that the country is an oligarchy. n/t

[BobbyBoring]

88. unfortunately

This shows how our government is run and has been for the past 50 years. We are officially the corporate states of America.

[bemildred]

4. Bring it. nt

[lunatica]

5. I hope that threat gets his dander up

Fucking bullies!

[sad sally]

7. The House GPO joins in and former inspector tells of impending environmental disaster

Knowing how whistleblowers usually are on the losing end, wonder who the administration will listen to?
###

HOUSE GOP SETS COUNTDOWN CLOCK FOR KEYSTONE PIPELINE DECISION, IGNORING PROJECT’S ACTUAL JOB CREATION POTENTIAL | To pressure President Obama on deciding about the Keystone XL pipeline, House Republicans unveiled a clock counting how long it has been since Obama signed legislation requiring him to make a decision about the pipeline in 60 days. “Will President Obama choose jobs and energy security for America?” says the countdown clock unveiled Wednesday by GOP members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. “America is waiting for President Obama’s decision.” But the potential jobs created will hardly have an impact for a massive pipeline that could severely damage the environment. The only independent analysis conducted of the American job-creation potential of the Keystone XL pipeline finds that between 500 and 1,400 temporary local construction jobs will be created, and even the State Department’s more generous estimate, compiled by a TransCanada contractor, was for 5,000 temporary jobs.

http://thinkprogress.org/green/2012/01/04/397499/keystone-xl-countdown-clock/?du

January 4, 2012 4:03 PM EST

Just as House Republicans introduce their newest stunt aimed at pressuring President Barack Obama into making a decision on the Keystone XL pipeline, a former TransCanada whistleblower has penned a scathing op-ed warning readers that the company has a track record of sacrificing quality at the expense of the environment, a pattern he predicted will be reflected in the construction of the controversial new pipeline.

In a column published by The Lincoln Journal Star, Mike Klink, a former civil engineer and inspector for Bechtel -- one of the major contractors employed during the construction of TransCanada's first Keystone pipeline -- wrote that TransCanada's ultimate focus is money, not safety, explaining that he had "an uncomfortable front-row seat to the disaster Keystone XL" could potentially have on the U.S. environment.

"Despite its boosters' advertising, this project is not about jobs or energy security. It is about money. And whenever my former employer Bechtel, working on behalf of TransCanada, had to choose between safety and saving money, they chose to save money," Klink wrote, adding that he witnessed the use of "cheap foreign steel that cracked when workers tried to weld it, foundations for pump stations that you would never consider using in your own home, fudged safety tests" and a surplus of other seemingly unethical safety hazards.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/276559/20120104/pipeline-inspector-calls-keystone-xl-potential-disaster.htm?du

[xtraxritical]

42. Is putting all those resources (Keystone $) into tarsands more efficient than, say, renewables?

Of course, in the short run. USA USA...

[roguevalley]

95. my uncle quit bechtel after fourty years over this stuff. fear bechtel

[wordpix]

109. very surprised the oil industry would resort to saving money over safety. NOT

[jpak]

8. Obama should make them agree to sell all the oil sent down that pipeline in the US - no exports

AND they should sell it at 10% BELOW Nymex crude.

yup

[JDPriestly]

11. Agreed, jpak.

Because the externalities of this deal could cost the American people an enormous amount of money and the loss of irreplaceable farmlands and water.

The risks in this are enormous considering how often pipelines leak.

[LarryNM]

81. +1 n/t

[BobbyBoring]

89. Amen to that

It's hard to believe, but we are now a net oil exporter. WTF.

[wordpix]

100. +1 Time to explode the fallacious "independence from foreign oil" meme

and make it happen if that pipeline is approved

[Vincardog]

10. Since the oil will cost jobs and raise gas prices; Obama should lift the free trade

status of the refinery and TAX the SHIT out of it if he allows it, which he SHOULD not DO.

[cstanleytech]

12. I think Obama is already aware that regardless which way he votes that

one side or the other will roast him.

[JJW]

13. Threatening the President sure sounds like a belligernet act

Therefore, Jack Gerard should be indefinitely detained without trial.

[Doctor_J]

69. Yup. An enemy of the state

Clear and present danger - certainly much more so than a pot smoker.

[OmahaBlueDog]

16. The pipeline will go through

Barack Obama doesn't really have a vested interest in opposing a pipeline that sends oil from a friendly neighbor to the US, and travels through a series of very red states. While there has been some opposition in Nebraska on environmental grounds, most of the objections have been Sandhills ranchers screaming "NIMBY" to the Governor. Opposition has died down since the announcement that the pipeline will be rerouted.

Jack Gerard is just trying to sound tough.

[patrice]

17. Can the royalty who run this country make themselves any more obvious?

[Trajan]

18. I have an idea - We will do it IF

The pipeline and refineries are nationalized, with the entire refinement process coming under control of the EPA and the Sierra Club, and with all profits going first into EXCELLENT wages for the workers, and the rest going directly into coffers to provide college education for the good citizens of the United States of America ....

[Jackpine Radical]

20. You some kinda Goddam socialist or sumpin?

Commie pinko anarchist nazis like you is roonin diskuntry.

[comipinko]

64. Hey!!!

Why are you pickin' on me?

[cstanleytech]

25. Or an alternative if we are going to talk fantasy is

remove all deductions for those who earn more than $1,000,000.00 per year, implement a 60% inheritance tax on estates worth more than 1 million dollars, raise the taxes on those earning more than 1 million a year to say 40% and make it so the taxes cannot be repealed nor reduced until 90% or higher energy needs come from renewable sources.

[Trajan]

34. Oh I see .... a kind of ad hominem counterpoint ....

IF we are going to talk fantasy ....

FREE BIG MACS FOR EVERYONE ! ....

[cstanleytech]

41. Well we "both" have our fantasies though I left off the

part where my fantasy includes me having the powers and abilities of a god hehe

[xtraxritical]

43. beer?

[BobbyBoring]

90. Will we also get

Free triple bypass surgery when we eat Big Macs? If so I'm in.

[whathehell]

72. Sounds good to me. n/t

[Octafish]

21. It IS in the national interest.

If the national interest is defined as the current petroleum based pyramid scheme that serves to benefit the ownership class and their platinum trousers.

[AlbertCat]

22. Great

Just what we need. A tube of sludge running down the entire country like a crude Mississippi. That'll improve the quality of life. They won't be satisfied until the whole country looks like TX.



How about corporate consequences from government over this thing for a change. It might be different if anyone thought they would build the thing right without lying and circumventing regulations, doing it on the cheap.

Remember walruses in the Gulf? Hello?

[xtraxritical]

44. Looks pretty much the same around Long Beach Ca.

ewe

[Trajan]

103. More precisely ..... Wilmington CA

Some of this in Long Beach (particularly the ever present rocking pumps), but most of the refineries in So Cal are in Wilmington, in what is known as the 'Watson Refinery District' ...... I used to work as a 'shutdown bum', AKA Day Laborer out of the OCAW union hall as a teen ..... The filthiest, most dangerous job a 16 year old could have in So Cal ....

[ronnie624]

24. I long for the day when corporate money no longer defiles our political system. n/t

[wordpix]

110. I long for the day when corporate money no longer defiles our natural heritage

[ronnie624]

116. *

[riderinthestorm]

26. Huge political consequences, like what?? Run Romney? Obama only has $8 gazillion dollars vs $9g?

He loses out on SOME lucrative post-presidential speaking engagements? His book run is limited to 1 million copies vs 1.2 mil?

Honestly, what do they mean? Assassination of him, his wife, his girls?

[lonestarnot]

27. Welp buster you bastard Gerard, I think we have something to say to your money,

FUCK YOU! And fuck your threats you oily bastard!

[alfredo]

28. They have made a threat against Obama and the American people.

Scum

[Bragi]

29. If he approves XL, then the Koch bros will support him?

Oh, look here, the Koch bros are members of API:

WASHINGTON, April 13, 2011 – Today API awarded its 2010 Distinguished Award for Outstanding Safety and Environmental Performance to Koch Pipeline Company, L.P. This is API’s highest safety and environmental performance award for pipeline operators...

http://api.org/Newsroom/koch-pipeline-award.cfm

[unkachuck]

30. "huge political consequences.”

....clearly blackmail....

....clearly a threat of high oil prices, economic calamity, extended depression, joblessness and poverty....in other words, unelectable economic numbers....

....do you like an economic system operated by organized crime? For 30 years these corrupt criminals have betrayed Americans and their trust with traitorous decisions sending our jobs abroad and purposely crashing our economy.

....these people and their puke puppets create wealth only for themselves while destroying our jobs and lives. How much more must we take?

[wordpix]

112. the exec. needs to order 10,000,000 solar roofs program immediately

and then we should all laugh in these bullies' faces.

[Robb]

31. Heh. They know he's going to say no.

He's now required by Congress to decide by January 30 whether the project is in the national interest. He has 18 months worth of environmental review to do, minimum.

Bookmark this post: not going to happen. It's the only reason to make a threat like this public -- they know he's going to say no, and are preparing the political capital for when it happens.

[Occulus]

32. Nationalizing your industry is in the national interest, fuckhead

Jesus. Jesus Christ, the arrogance of these wastes of perfectly good human bones.

[ErikJ]

35. +1

[freshwest]

52. +1,000!

[handmade34]

33. 'Huge "environmental" consequences' if pipeline allowed

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/03/canadian-oil-sands/essick-photography

[ErikJ]

36. Eerily similar to Carter's October Surprise

after he started the solar bank program in summer 1979. Big Oil went to war for Reagan and planned the Iran Contra scandal.

[russspeakeasy]

50. You and I may be the only ones that know that.

[freshwest]

53. I fully expect an October surprise. It's worked for them again and again.

Yeah, I remember those days. And Bush and his 'new product.'

[Kahuna]

66. Yep! Lower gas for a repuke re-election, higher for Dems. nt

[wordpix]

113. it's a disaster

[Historic NY]

48. Wow this must be where the $6.00 + dollar a gallon memo is coming from..

He should call there bluff and nationalize them...even if its short term should they begin a price rise.

[freshwest]

51. What 'National' interest? Fracking the nation into oblivion?

Last edited Thu Jan 5, 2012, 07:53 PM - Edit history (2)

[OxQQme]

55. Less we overlook

the NEED for a small army to patrol said pipeline.
These are the same assholes that Chavez booted out of his country.

Nationalize and rebuild THIS country's slave quarters.

[tridim]

57. As if the Oil Industry wasn't going to "Citizen's United" Obama anyway.

Stay on target Mr. President. Don't give in to corporate threats.

[PhoenixAbove]

60. I hope the President will just ignore these jackasses and let it die. n/t

[Doctor_J]

73. I disagree. Don't ignore them - that allows them to create their own narrative

He needs to take them on. See my post down thread.

[stonecutter357]

62. get the money out of politics.

Nationalize the oil companies.

[Kahuna]

65. Read: How would you like to have $4 gas by election time...

Not as if they weren't planning to raise it just in time for the election anyway.

[AngryAmish]

67. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=s0gNga6v9EY

[Doctor_J]

68. Another excellent opportunity for the president

"As you have probably read, Big Oil is threatening me over the keystone pipeline. If your gas prices shoot up between now and election, you now know that it will be because of price fixing and political payback, not supply and demand. I would like to remind you that the Gulf Coast is still suffering due to their criminal negligence, and the thought of the Western Plain being destroyed by an inland repeat of Deepwater Horizon will not be ignored by me and my administration. It is the people, not the corporations, of this country that I serve. I am also aware of, and will take into account, the economics of the proposal. Due consideration will be made and a decision rendered as such. But I will not be terrorized by Big Oil or anyone else."

[Nihil]

78. Agreed ... wonder if he'll take it?

I think it would be absolutely superb to hear/read Obama giving your "speech".

We'll see what actually happens.

[Doctor_J]

82. He is going to have to at least pay lip service to the 99% if he wants to get re-elected

These corpoterrorists have presented him with a political lob pitch right over the plate. All he has to do to score lots of political points is talk trash right back to them. AS you say, we'll see.

[wordpix]

111. +1, would like to hear him give this speech, would be remembered forever

[Doctor_J]

118. The moment has already passed, another colossal missed chance for Obama

he is as tone-deaf as any politician in my life time. If he had given that speech, he could then deliberate and even approve the pipe line, but would have shown the American people that he will at least pretend to stand up to terrorists. His political cowardice is depressing, and will probably cost him a second term.

[proverbialwisdom]

70. K&R. Watch http://www.tarsandsaction.org/ for related info.

[JJW]

74. American Terrorist?

NASA scientist James Hansen states; the oil sands could mean "game over" for the planet when combined with greenhouse gases from coal.

So what it comes down to is that American Petroleum Institute President Jack Gerard, is threatening to kill us all for short term petro profits.

[bhikkhu]

75. If you want a line in the sand, I'd put it on the consumption side rather than the transport side

...as in, stopping a pipeline doesn't reduce overall consumption, or reduce production, or raise prices (which would also reduce consumption) or do anything whatsoever that is material to the problem of fossil fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions.
A pipeline just moves oil from one place to another, which is hardly rocket science and a sideshow to the real issues.
Beating Obama up over this in the run-up to a big election is just bone-headed, misdirected energy.

[Nihil]

80. I don't think that the anti-pipeline people are against reducing consumption either.

It is a safe assumption that anyone who is opposing the pipeline on environmental grounds
is also opposing the drive for endless consumption of all resources that is supported by
the pro-pipeline parties.




> A pipeline just moves oil from one place to another, which is hardly rocket science and
> a sideshow to the real issues.

If the pipeline is required to move oil from A to B and the pipeline is blocked (or not built)
then both the consumption at B and the production at A are reduced over the volumes
if the pipeline wasn't blocked. This will - as you note - lead to increased prices, demand
destruction and activation of alternative solutions.

Mind you, if the pipeline *is* built but then breaks, not only do you get all of the perceived
penalties of a non-existent pipeline but you get the major bonus of all of the pollution on
top of everything else.




> Beating Obama up over this in the run-up to a big election is just bone-headed,
> misdirected energy.

You're entitled to your own opinion, even when it is in total agreement with the profiteering
oil companies and their puppets. FWIW, I completely disagree with your comment.

[freedom fighter jh]

83. Stopping the pipeline will reduce production if the pipeline is the only way to get the oil out

of Canada.

My understanding is that the oil is destined for China. TransCanada is trying to build a pipeline west across Canada to the west coast so that the oil can be shipped from there -- but they're meeting with heavy resistance from indigenous people. It's gotta go west or south, and if both those routes are blocked then it can't get to where it can be used.

[freedom fighter jh]

105. What are the real issues?

The biggest threat to the future of the human race is climate change. It doesn't get much more real than that.

The tar sands pipeline represents a move to a new fuel that is more carbon-polluting than most fuels we (and by "we" I mean the human race) use now. If we use a lot of it, that's a massive addition of carbon to the atmosphere, meaning an acceleration of global warming. At some point the fossil fuels, including tar sands, will run out and we will have to learn to live without them. We can forgo tar sands and start that process now. Or we can mine tar sands oil and transfer a whole lot of CO2 to the atmosphere and we can inject a lot of toxic chemicals into the ground to coax the natural gas out of rocks, and we can dig ever deeper into the ocean to find oil that just might leak enough to destroy all life in large sections of the Gulf of Mexico, and through all those efforts we can get that last BTU of fossil fuel energy that is accessible to the human race, and in doing so we can make this planet much less hospitable to future generations -- and the fossil fuel will *still* run out, just a few decades later than it otherwise would have.

It seems to me that tar sands are a good place to draw the line.

The decision is on Obama's desk; right now Obama's denial of the permit is the only thing that can stop it. If "beating Obama up over this" is not the way to deal with it, then what do you suggest?

[bhikkhu]

106. Fossil fuel consumption and climate change are the issues

Stopping a pipeline to transport canadian oil to a particular US distribution center is a sideshow. As long as consumption is unchanged, it just heads to the same markets by another route. Perhaps it would be symbolic, which can be important, but (similar to the drug problem) as long as demand is untouched there will be supply. And if you ask anyone how much of the world's supply of fossil fuels we are going to burn - "all of it" is the realistic answer. And how fast? "As fast as we can". I see very few people choosing to live otherwise, and it is a real choice that must be made about how we live; the choice about whether we re-elect a president who approved a pipeline (or not) is a distraction, however it works out.

[freedom fighter jh]

107. We seem to agree on the main point: that fossil fuel . . . what you said

But as you say, people are not choosing to live otherwise. Seems to me "as fast as we can" will be faster if the pipeline is built. How is the pipeline only symbolic? What other route? If the pipeline is stopped i'm sure someone will come up with some other route, but then that's where the next battle will be fought.

What other way is there to stop it? If it has to be on the demand side, then how can that be done?

BTW, I thought this thread was dead and my reply (because it was so late) out in cyber oblivion, so I'm real glad you replied.

[bhikkhu]

108. The Enbridge Gateway is the other route, west through Canada

http://oilsandstruth.org/projects-region/enbridge-gateway-pipeline-bc

It has its issues and opponents too, but it also has its proponents - as it would keep all the jobs and transit fees and so forth in Canada.

As to how to slow or reduce demand, its pretty easy to spend years looking at the issue (I first joined the Sierra Club and the Audubon Society as a kid in the mid '70's) and come up with little positive to say. I bicycle and conserve and recycle and so forth myself, and I can say it makes my life better, richer, and more affordable. But I'm certainly an outlier, and human nature defeats most good arguments. i think.

[freedom fighter jh]

117. We seem to agree on everything except the conclusion.

Seems to me the Enbridge Gateway could end up going either way; it may or may not get approved. If both pipelines are defeated, the oil can't get out of Canada. Of course the producers will seek another route, and most likely they will find one. (Is trucking out of the question?) But every battle we win -- say by stopping one pipeline or another -- delays the producers and raises societal consciousness, and it could get to the point where mining tarsands is just not worth the effort.

I also bicycle and recycle. Most everyone recycles, but people still look at me funny for traveling on a bicycle instead of in a car.

[L0oniX]

77. Obama's overlords speak out. Who da thunk it. They don't even care who knows.

[LiberalAndProud]

79. Industry vs. citizenry

The public is overwhelming against the transcontinental pipeline. And when the pipeline is obsolete, there are no provisions for removal.

I am hoping that Obama sees this challenge as the opportunity that it is. We need to make the decision that Big Oil will not have the power to choose our politicians. Not now. Not ever. Fuck Big Oil.

[DirkGently]

86. Pretty naked threat. What's next, horse head in the bed?

[Bozita]

93. +1

[katty]

91. geez, the oil mafia & friends making blatant threats...no surprise,they are desperate

to shove tar sands up our ass. it costs more energy to to produce oil from tar sands then the finished 'product' delivers to the customer, it's ridiculous. they just want their upfront $$ - the usual.

[Taverner]

92. Funny, I don't remember big oil being much of a contributor to his 2008 campaign

Big Finance, yes. Big oil - no

[rawbean]

99. Powers of Discrimination?

Big Finance, Big Oil, Big Military Industrial Complex, Big Agribiz, Methinks you're trying to make distinctions that functionally just don't exist.

[Catherina]

101. AFL-CIO, Teamsters, Laborers' International Union leadership did the same

There's been a lot of friction in the Occupy movement over issues like this because union leadership isn't always on the same sheet of music as the 99%. My emphasis is on leadership, not members. For the most part, union members have been great. Their leadership, not so much.

On this particular issue, I understand they're shortsighted over jobs but damn. Get with the music fellas.

Labor Agreement For Keystone XL Pipeline To Create 13,000 American Jobs

TransCanada Corporation announced a Project Labor Agreement for a significant portion of U.S. construction of the proposed US$7 billion Keystone Gulf Coast Expansion Pipeline Project (Keystone XL). The agreement will provide TransCanada with a capable, well-trained and ready workforce in the U.S. to construct Keystone XL. During construction, the project is expected to create over seven million hours of labor and over 13,000 new jobs for American workers.

The Project Labor Agreement is with the Laborers International Union of North America, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, the United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipefitting Industry of the United States and Canada, AFL-CIO, the International Union of Operating Engineers and the Pipeline Contractors Association.

“The proposed Keystone XL pipeline will have a significant impact on the North American economy through the thousands of manufacturing and construction jobs it is creating,” says Russ Girling, TransCanada president and chief executive officer. “This project is entirely paid for
with private sector dollars and is shovel ready.”

http://www.pipeline-news.com/feature/labor-agreement-keystone-xl-pipeline-create-13000-american-jobs

AFL-CIO:
For the 99% of Americans, Keystone = JOBS

For America's skilled craft construction professionals, any discussion of the Keystone XL project begins and ends with one word: JOBS. Today, roughly 14% of the American construction workforce is unemployed -- which is significantly higher than the overall national unemployment rate of 9%.

...

The Building & Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO, along with its thirteen affiliated unions, recognizes the need to plan for the future and design a functional and reasonable approach to developing a national energy policy designed to ensure the availability of affordable energy for both U.S. businesses and consumers. These objectives can be met only through the development, installation and continued operation of energy technologies from a broad range of energy resources which will have the added social benefits of contributing to the sustained creation of solid, well-paying middle class jobs and careers, and will encourage the efficient use of all energy resources to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and lessen our dependence upon unstable energy sources.

By constructing a safe, reliable method for transporting crude oil through the American Midwest, this initiative not only fulfills sound U.S. energy policy goals, but will spur employment opportunities for American workers in the construction industry, as well as many other industries.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-h-ayers/for-the-99-of-americans-k_b_1073705.html

INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS:

"The Keystone Pipeline project will offer working men and women a real chance to earn a good wage and support their families in this difficult economic climate," said International Brotherhood of Teamsters James P. Hoffa. "Our country was built by the hard-working men and women of the middle class - when they prosper so does America. Investment projects like Keystone Pipeline will go a long way toward helping our country down the road to economic recovery."

An independent study estimates that during the life of the project, the Keystone XL project is expected to stimulate:

More than $20 billion in new spending for the U.S. economy
More than 118,000 person-years of employment
An increase of $6.5 billion in the personal income of Americans
Increased gross output (product) of $9.6 billion
More than $585 million in state and local taxes in the states along the pipeline route

http://www.transcanada.com/5493.html

LABORERS' INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH AMERICA:

Statement of Terry O’Sullivan,
General President of LIUNA,
On Delay of Keystone XL Pipeline Construction

Washington, D.C. (November 10, 2011) – Terry O’Sullivan, General President of LIUNA – the Laborers’ International Union of North America – made the following statement today in response to the U.S. State Department delay of the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline:

Environmentalists formed a circle around the White House and within days the Obama Administration chose to inflict a potentially fatal delay to a project that is not just a pipeline, but is a lifeline for thousands of desperate working men and women. The Administration chose to support environmentalists over jobs – job-killers win, American workers lose.

Environmental groups from the Natural Resources Defense Council to the Sierra Club may be dancing in the streets, having delayed and possibly stopped yet another project that would put men and women back to work. While they celebrate, pipeline workers will continue to lose their homes and livelihoods.

We had hoped the decision would have been made on the basis of economics, facts and the best interests of the nation, not on the basis of a political calculation.

The State Department should have been freed to make its decision, and then allowed the state and people of Nebraska to proceed with their concerns through the many avenues available to them. That would have been a sign of the Administration’s support for jobs and a recognition that workers can’t wait until after the next election for a job.

We are extremely disappointed.

http://nation.foxnews.com/keystone-pipeline/2011/11/10/unions-furious-obama-killing-pipeline-jobs#ixzz1idgMAVAe

[wordpix]

114. "This project is entirely paid for with private sector dollars and is shovel ready.”

Shovel ready? The route is not even approved!

Project entirely paid for with private sector dollars? How about the land the pipeline will go through? Who owns the land?

No one really knows unless/until a route is approved, but I'm sure some of the land will be publicly owned.

Such BS coming out of these people.

[Bozita]

115. +1