Harvard proposal would ban fraternities and sororities

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press


Collin Binkley, Associated Press
Updated 5:14 pm, Wednesday, July 12, 2017


BOSTON (AP) — A proposal at Harvard University would ban all fraternities, sororities and single-gender clubs starting in fall 2018, a measure that's largely aimed at the school's exclusive, all-male social clubs that have been blamed for problems with sexual assault and alcohol abuse.

The recommendation was announced Wednesday by a faculty committee that was created in March to examine the school's rules surrounding single-gender clubs and suggest improvements. The final decision on any change now falls to Harvard President Drew Faust.
 
In its 22-page report, the committee said it hopes to create an environment where clubs "cease to have a pernicious influence on undergraduate life."

"In order to move beyond the gendered and exclusive club system that has persisted — and even expanded — over time, a new paradigm is needed," the committee wrote, "one that is rooted in an appreciation of diversity, commitment to inclusivity and positive contributions to the social experience for all students."

Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/education/article/Harvard-proposal-would-ban-fraternities-and-11283924.php

[sandensea]

1. Good.

They do nothing but create an atmosphere of patronage and abuse - and worse yet, impunity.

[roamer65]

8. A REAL president.

Not a fake one like the one currently squatting in the WH.

[sandensea]

11. Hear, hear.

What I find the most galling is that, while the CIA saw fit to remove JFK by "executive action" merely because he sought to reform the war-spy complex, they are refusing to lift even a finger to simply expose Cheeto for what he is: a PAID ASSET of the Putin regime.

That latter task, suffice it to say, is THE VERY REASON they were created in the first place!

[Drunken Irishman]

17. lol JFK belonged to Phi Kappa Theta.

[lastlib]

33. Donald tRump belongs to "I Felta Thigh".......

[gilbert sullivan]

44. Also Eta Byta Pi

heh

[3catwoman3]

53. You have a...

...quick wit, just like the poster to whom you replied.

[3catwoman3]

52. Oh, very good.

And very clever!

[flibbitygiblets]

2. About time

[gilbert sullivan]

3. Oh, FFS

Enough of this idiotic push to force every human to be equal in every conceivable way. If we're all the same, what value do we have? This is just stupid concession to insanity.

[Wednesdays]

15. You think equality is idiotic.

Very telling.

[paleotn]

24. your apparent definition of equality is interesting

shallow, inaccurate, but interesting.

[gilbert sullivan]

42. I obviously think equality under the law is proper. The apparent effort to run every goddamn human

on the planet through a cultural, intellectual and moral meat grinder so they all come out identical is what I object to. It's just
way beyond batshit nuts.

[kwassa]

45. I've got a little list

As some day it may happen that a victim must be found
I've got a little list - I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground
And who never would be missed - who never would be missed!
There's the pestilential nuisances who write for autographs
All people who have flabby hands and irritating laughs
All children who are up in dates, and floor you with 'em flat
All persons who in shaking hands, shake hands with you like that
And all third persons who on spoiling tête-à-têtes insist
They'd none of 'em be missed - they'd none of 'em be missed!

[gilbert sullivan]

49. Mikado, Yourkado, mox nix

I imagine everyone has a little list.

Even that Runaround Robot in Asimov's story.

[Judi Lynn]

25. Real value comes from within. n/t

[Duppers]

35. FFS to you.

We're not all the same but there's no use to create barriers. You probably also like discriminating country clubs.

This is indeed telling, as someone above said, since we Dems are usually more inclusive.

Bye bye now.

[obamanut2012]

40. " If we're all the same, what value do we have?"

lul wut

[gilbert sullivan]

43. er, would you really want to live in a world where everyone was identical?

That sounds like an elegant definition of hell to me.

[LanternWaste]

55. I imagine it takes an astounding amount if irrational thought to believe the absence of frats

I imagine it takes an astounding amount if irrational thought to believe the absence of frats leads directly to "everyone is identical...".

No doubt, you'll further explain how the one leads specifically to the other using objective evidence, yes? Or is your little outburst merely an unsupported and emotional allegation predicated on bias rather than evidence?

[Equinox Moon]

4. It is overdue to clean-up our educational institutions sub-cultures that are harmful.

I trust there will be new ways for college attendees to bond and develop lasting supportive relationships.

[AngryAmish]

5. Kappa Alpha Psi is harmful?

Interesting. What about ZBT?

[MyUncle]

9. Most will not "get" the significance of those fraternities.

I, a Hapa man, roomed with a Kappa Alpha Psi pledge as a freshman. His stories about his fraternity and what it meant to him and the black community were just about one of the most important things I learned that year. It certainly was the most real world example of organizational pride that I saw that year.

I get the Frat and Sorority hate. But, when it comes down to it, the schools are making rules about what kind of organizations can exist or not exist. It is imposing their will on who can associate with who and where they live.

I do not think is great when the only group living options get whittled down to dorms or other living arrangements that are controlled by the university.

I think that is too much control by the University Administrators.

[AngryAmish]

18. Puritanism brooks no dissent.

Harvard was founded to train Puritan ministers. Still does.

[bettyellen]

28. I think going coed would reduce a lot of the problems.

[RobinA]

29. Do You Hear Yourself?

Ban subcultures. That never turns out badly.

[Equinox Moon]

31. I did not say/write "ban". I said clean-up.

I thought it was a mild comment to post. I was not intending to offend or ruffle anyone.

I don't understand why my comment would be considered provoking in any way.

Have a good night.

[mahannah]

6. Good idea. Why not fall 2017?

[Phoenix61]

7. Excellent idea

I grew up in a college town and the frat parties were a problem then and I'm sure that hasn't changed. Putting a group of young men in one building without adult supervision is a recipe for disaster as has been proven over and over.

[Moostache]

10. Kids are gonna party...frats just make it visible

Anyone who believes "banning" them will do anything is delusional. The party will move and the secret societies will flourish...banning ANYTHING that people want ....sex, parties, drugs, music, etc is a dead end.

You would have better luck with programs that got young people involved in other activities than you will banning frats...

[Not Ruth]

12. Great idea, those places seem to result in a lot of kids getting hurt

[Honeycombe8]

13. It's long overdue. nt

[bucolic_frolic]

14. Penn State might have other ideas

[broadcaster90210]

16. Good

nt

[AngryAmish]

19. Why? People with similar interests should not live together?

Crazy.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

20. I have mixed feelings

I find Greek life generally repulsive and wanted nothing to do with it, however I went to college more or less locally. I didn't go to college looking for or needing a new circle of friends, if I at the age of 18 had been flung across the country and was lonely and disoriented I just might have felt differently.

My attitude to the fraternities and sororities from day one was just "fuck these guys", but I don't think official banishment for ostensibly progressive reasons is really a positive thing either, it's an overreach.

[yurbud]

22. You can make friends in the dorms or interest based clubs. Greeks continue worst of high school

and are rape factories.

[paleotn]

27. Unfortunately, I agree with you

From my own experience as an undergrad in the early 80's and that of my old friends both in the greek system and out, drunken rape factory pretty well sums it up. Such sentiments weren't exclusive to frats then by any means, but within that system it was far, far more pervasive....on steroids to be precise. I went to their parties on occasion, since I had contacts in a couple of frats, but secret handshake clubs just never appealed to me. Still don't.

[lastlib]

34. I visited a friend's frat house at the Univ. of Missouri...

...biggest room in the house wasn't the library--it was the room where they stored the kegs of beer for parties.

Fraternity houses are THE locus for social life at MU. Playboy magazine once did a survey ranking the top ten party schools in the country; at the end of the article was a footnote: "We didn't include UCLA or the University of Missouri in this survey, because we felt it would be unfair to have the PROS competing with the amateurs."

[Duppers]

36. Cliques, drunken parties, and rape factories.

And kids have died at hazing parties - there's a Penn State hazing death in the news now.

All and all disgusting.

[surrealAmerican]

21. Where will all the alcoholics go then?

Fraternities were a good way of keeping them all in one place - easier for the rest of the students to avoid them that way.

[yurbud]

23. Frat boys 3x likely to rape. Sorority girls 74% more likely than others to be raped

If I was sending my kid off to college, that's all I would need to know. I wouldn't want my son to be a rapist or my daughter to be a victim.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/rape-sexual-assault-ban-frats

[applegrove]

26. Boys behave better around girls. But usually that is a grade seven thing.

[liberal N proud]

30. Cut down the tree because of one bad branch.

Me experience in college was nothing but positive. I probably would not have graduated if it had not been for the support from the brotherhood.

I am still connected to those people and still support my chapter financially and by volunteering.

[Lifelong Protester]

32. One of the reasons

I picked the college I did was that it had NO Greek life.
That said, my niece was as part of a sorority and felt it was a good choice. For her, yes,

[Duppers]

37. And, not surprisingly...

A study from the University of Iowa found that **politically conservative students** are more likely to join fraternities and sororities on college campuses.

https://now.uiowa.edu/2012/11/ui-study-explores-greek-membership-political-orientation-activism


Wise new policy for Harvard.

[Igel]

56. Most of the progressives I knew that hated frats

Mostly just hated the frat boys.

They made exceptions for organizations with real people.

[hughee99]

38. Did I misread this part from the article?

"The proposal would forbid students from joining final clubs, fraternities or sororities — even those that are co-ed — starting with incoming students in fall 2018. Students found to have violated the rule would face disciplinary action from the university."

"Even those that are co-ed"?

I wonder what the members of "The Bee", "The Sablière Society", "La Vie", "The Seneca" and "ISIS" (the Harvard club, not the religious nutjobs) will think of this.

[Not Ruth]

41. They have plenty of time to choose a school that supports rape factories

[Igel]

57. Yes.

The reasons most here assume is the reason don't apply.

Integration of all-male groups by sex was based on money, to be crass. You make connections, do business, socially climb and advance in society.

These organizations are banned for the same reason. Frat connections help after college. We know humans are social and form groups, and the self-appointed noted wisest insist that we ignore that and treat those we know and strangest the same.

Just go to a conference and see how that works, or apply for a job across discipline-clique boundaries.

[hughee99]

58. So in order to combat this, they're getting rid of CO-ED organizations too?

It would seem that if gender discrimination was the issue they're trying to address, getting rid of co-ed organizations too doesn't really further that cause.

And as far as the general social organization and making connections go, keep in mind we're talking about Harvard here, which is essentially the same sort of thing. The same people who might be inclined to give you a leg up because you were in the same club as they were are going to give you a leg up because you went to the same school they did.

[obamanut2012]

39. Good -- I went to a university that banned him

We managed to bond, have fun, and make lifelong friends that even today help with networking.

They are elitist and isolationist.

bah blah blah to everyone who tells me I'm wrong, and Greeks are just graet, and this is a travesty.

[Sunlei]

46. probably a good idea to trashcan that old school Frat stuff.

[GulfCoast66]

47. Funny how opposed to choices they dislike

Even people on the left can become.

I was in a frat and made lifelong friends. News to me that our house was a rape factory.

Do not like them, do not join. And if seem very regressive for a university to dictate which organizations its students can join.

As a private school Harvard certainly can. State schools not so much. Our house was off campus as were many others. The University could have refused to support Greeks with athletic and artistic competitions and so forth. They would have had no way to keep us from functioning.

[Blue_Tires]

48. Haven't they tried this before? Or am I thinking another university?

[MosheFeingold]

50. Well the freemasons

Were very helpful in helping my family flee Europe prior to WWII. They are a male only organization with which I am quite fond as I owe them my life.

There is a time and place for sex segregation, especially if voluntary.

A fundamental feature of the first amendment right of free association is refusing to associate.

Now Harvard is not a state actor, but given what Harvard is it should probably consider this principle.

[no_hypocrisy]

51. There will be serious pushback on this proposal.

Fraternities in particular are used for future business and professional advancement. Brothers taking care of brothers.

[Casprings]

54. You guys are basically saying that a private institution should be able to tell you what..

organizations you can and cannot join simply because you go to their school. This seems like a pretty shitty standard to set that will could have huge consequences for how people organize themselves and the general idea could easily be connected to ones employment, etc.