Trumps lawyers seek to undercut Muellers Russia investigation

[Stonepounder]

Source: Washington Post

Some of President Trump’s lawyers are exploring ways to limit or undercut special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s Russia investigation, building a case against what they allege are his conflicts of interest and discussing the president’s authority to grant pardons, according to people familiar with the effort.

Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself in connection with the probe, according to one of those people. A second person said Trump’s lawyers have been discussing the president’s pardoning powers among themselves.

Trump’s legal team declined to comment on the issue. But one adviser said the president has simply expressed a curiosity in understanding the reach of his pardoning authority, as well as the limits of Mueller’s investigation.

“This is not in the context of, ‘I can’t wait to pardon myself,” a close adviser said.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-lawyers-seek-to-undercut-muellers-russia-investigation/2017/07/20/232ebf2c-6d71-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.51275cebb2d3

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

He has to be brought down.

Sooner rather than later.

[truthisfreedom]

2. Well, pardon me, but if that isn't s conflict of interest

Then the phrase has no definition.

[Leghorn21]

3. Pardon whom of what, LOSER 45? DO TELL!! nt

[herding cats]

9. It's a family thing.

You know they all thought they'd get away with anything now... maybe they were wrong?

Hi, Leghorn!

[Leghorn21]

17. Maybe just MAYbe, cats!? Then again - nah!

Hi cats!

[FakeNoose]

54. Well they can't be pardoned unless they're GUILTY

So which is it Cheeto?

Are your kids (and friends and co-workers) all guilty?
Last week you said this is a witch-hunt and fake news.

It can't be a witch-hunt if you're planning to pardon them.

[TeamPooka]

4. Oligarchy or Bust! is Trump's motto now.

[Thinkingabout]

5. BUT BUT BUT, Trump hasn't done anything wrong, it is fake news.

[SergeStorms]

20. He sure is trying.....

to hide a lot of things for someone who hasn't done anything wrong. Right?

We know he's guilty as all hell, 65+% of the country knows he's guilty as all hell, but those.........those..........OTHERS! Well, they

couldn't tell you if it's day or night, most likely.

[Leghorn21]

6. Hmmm, from link: "team spokesman, Mark Corallo, resigned on Thursday...":

Further adding to the challenges facing Trump’s outside lawyers, the team’s spokesman, Mark Corallo, resigned on Thursday, according to two people familiar with his departure. Corallo did not respond to immediate requests for comment.

Well well- who will take his thankless job now??

[herding cats]

7. Imagine if Mueller some how magically heard this and knew who to indict first?

I mean, geewiz, maybe his team is smart enough to start from the head down, rather than the knees up? That would leave Pence the only person with the power of pardon, and he'd have all that political mud on him he'd be trying to scrape off already. 🤔

[SergeStorms]

21. IF........

he isn't sent "up the river" himself. Then it would fall on Ryan, then Hatch then........who the hell cares! They're ALL complicit in this mess!

[GoCubsGo]

28. He probably needs to get them all at once.

One big mass indictment. There is no honor among thieves, and it would be so fun to watch them turn on each , in order to try to save their own asses.

[DesertRat]

8. k&r

[byronius]

10. Every argument they make borders on total lunacy.

Why not throw in 'how do we know reality is real?'

Criminal criminal criminal. Period. End of story.

[PJMcK]

11. An old joke my father claims to have created

It's August 1974 and Nixon has resigned the presidency. In the single panel cartoon, Vice President Ford is walking into the White House as Nixon is walking out. They bump into one another and Nixon says, "Pardon me."

Yuck, yuck, yuck.

[still_one]

12. The Congressional republicans keep giving trump and company a free pass, and 2018 keeps

getting closer and closer

[elmac]

13. I wonder if this is why Mark Corallo resigned? nt

[Nwgirl503]

16. How'd I miss that news?

[Honeycombe8]

36. Yep. That's what I think. Corallo is a big Mueller fan, & apparently thought that T was not guilty.

But when T starts asking who he can pardon, incl. himself, that sort of says it all.

Corallo would want nothing to do with attacking Mueller.

Trump lost a valuable member of his team in Corallo, seems like. One of the few who has years of political experience, and experience in big Presidential and political criminal defense handling.

[elmac]

14. Per Madow

tRump seeking ways to pardon himself and everyone else. If so, this will make Water Gate look like nothing.

[Hieronymus]

15. Rachel is on it.

[ouija]

19. Shocked

Shocking development...yawn.

[MarinCoUSA]

18. Traitor Tyrant Pig's Sat Night Massacre may be a Thursday Night Massacre

Traitor Tyrant Pig. Sieg Heil Orange Pustule Hitler. King of the Birther Racists.

Impeach the MOFO now!

[janx]

22. Headline is now: "Trump team seeks to control, block Muellers Russia investigation"

Wow.

[riversedge]

23. New WaPost headline: Trump team seeks to control, block Muellers Russia investigation

More forceful I think.

[janx]

27. Bing!

We must have noticed it around the same time.

[Mr.Bill]

24. I'm no legal expert,

but a little googling turned this up:

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/2/essays/89/pardon-power

Isn't there currently an active impeachment bill in the House of Representatives? I believe it was introduced by a congressman from Texas. Of course, no one thought it would go anywhere, but wouldn't it put a freeze on any pardon that would affect the impeachment?

[Stonepounder]

30. IANAL, but... I don't think so. Impeachment is not a criminal proceeding.

Lawrence is talking about it now. Accepting a pardon implies an admission of guilt. If Trump pardons, say, Kushner, it would pretty much destroy him not testifying using the 5th, since, having been pardoned, there would be no jeopardy attached to incriminating himself.

A pardon would not stop Impeachment, since getting fired from a job is not the same as a trial for breaking a law.

[Mr.Bill]

32. Good point about

someone not being able to use the fifth if they have been pardoned.

[Honeycombe8]

34. I think you first have to be convicted, or plead guilty, to be pardoned. Oops. No, you don't.

Just heard lawyer on O'Donnell state that you can pardon before conviction.

But pardoning Jr. or Kushner would make it harder for them to plead the 5th, the lawyer said.

Lawyer said it's not decided whether a Prez can pardon himself. He can try. Some think he could, but a better argument against being able to do that.

[luvtheGWN]

44. let's consider that Mueller and his team are basically doing the legwork

and if they get fired by Trump, then they can simply pass all their findings on to New York's AG Schneiderman. As some have mentioned, Trump is not immune from being indicted for racketeering or other felonies by a state AG.

[Honeycombe8]

46. If Mueller is fired, Schiff has already said they'd just appoint an independent counsel. nt

[Honeycombe8]

25. They're going after Mueller to limit him. Bet they sue & take it to the (friendly) S.Ct.

Then ultimately (next year?), when he's found guilty, and his aides and family members, he's wanting to know who all he can pardon, including himself.

[Honeycombe8]

26. Yep. The answers are in the financial records. Maddow says if T gets new A.G., AG can fire Mueller.

That is, the AG can then fire Mueller. Sessions can't, because he recused himself. And there's the plan regarding this strange thing with Sessions.

I'm gonna guess that Congress would step in, if Mueller is fired.

[central scrutinizer]

29. Step in with a strongly worded letter of concern

If even that

[Honeycombe8]

31. I hope that's not the case. Schiff seemed pretty definite that if Mueller is fired...

they'll just name an independent counsel. Trump would not be able to fire an independent counsel. And they could name MUELLER as the independent counsel.

Trump is guilty as all hell, or he wouldn't be fighting so hard.

[Mr.Bill]

35. Schiff is in the minority.

Unless republicans stand with him, he can't do a damn thing.

[Honeycombe8]

37. He was so sure and said "we," so I'm guessing that it's been discussed. That's a line T can't cross.

That's the impression I got.

[Cosmocat]

51. Lets not be naive

Schiff is saying what SHOULD happen ...

Chances that he had any discussion with R leadership where they committed to this if Mueller was fired is less than 0%.

[Honeycombe8]

52. No. As I said, it was more than that, what I heard on tv. What I saw in print was softened a bit.

But it was clear that it had been discussed. Maybe not by many, but by some, incl those in power.

[Cosmocat]

53. Nope

I have heard and read him say this, too.

He is just saying what SHOULD happen.

There is less than 0% chance any republican in any leadership position would have committed to that to any democrat.

None.

[Stonepounder]

33. But it he fires Sessions,

Rosenstein would become 'acting AG'. So he would then have to either get Rosenstein fire Mueller or fire Rosenstein or get a new AG. Saturday night massacre might finally get the GOP's attention. A new AG would have to get approved by the Senate and the Dems would filibuster it forever and could probably get 2+ GOP Senators to vote no as well. There are still one of two Senators who are willing to put country ahead of party.

[Honeycombe8]

38. Trump would appoint a new AG. Rosenstein would act as AG, but not long. nt

[Stonepounder]

41. But, as stated above,

the 'new' AG couldn't take on the job until he got confirmed by the Senate, and that could take quite a while.

[Nevernose]

55. And a strongly worded donation letter

Some of these guys, I think (D and R) are probably far more concerned with the fundraising potential this mess has.

Too cynical?

[Ftrump]

39. What kind of idiot do you have to be...

If one has committed questionable activities in the past (or present), what kind of a STUPID FUCK does one have to be to accept a position associated with unrelenting scrutiny, not only professional scrutiny but personal scrutny. How could trump possibly think that shit in his pasted wouldn't re-surface. If it were you, would you not want to fly under the radar?? Why run for President? WHAT AN IDIOT!

[rzemanfl]

40. Welcome to DU. You have a spare "ed" I think. Ed could use it.

[Ftrump]

43. Thanks!

You are quite right, I noticed the extra "ed" after my post posted. I think I'll keep it there for a rainy day; I am sure I'll omit to include an "ed" at the end of some word, in a future post. I'll point to my previous post then

[rzemanfl]

45. That's fine, but you can edit a post. I find myself having to do it all the time. n/t

[Stonepounder]

42. Simple, Ftrump. He thought that 'President' was same as 'Total Dictator'.

He doesn't have a clue how government works, that he can't dictate laws, overrule the courts, or govern by Executive Order. And he has no desire (or ability) to learn.

[flibbitygiblets]

47. On Lawrence O: Mueller probably aready has Trump's tax returns

Apparently it's a pretty easy process: A special prosecutor just shows up in a court and asks for them as long as he can show he has a reasonable belief a crime has been committed.

Get this part: Neither Trump nor his lawyers would get notified if that happened. So Trump knows there's a very real probability that Mueller has his tax returns already.

Think about what he's afraid of everyone finding out...and it's out there! Explains a lot.

[bucolic_frolic]

48. It's all very simple

'i pardon me, and everyone who's ever worked for me, publicly or privately,
and order the arrest of the legal system that is persecuting me on this
Witch Hunt to nowhere.'

So THERE!

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. Kick (nt)

[Control-Z]

56. Simply, a curiosity.

Riiiiight.