Loughner found competent, pleads guilty in mass shooting

[Ptah]

Source: Arizona Republic {Phoenix}

TUCSON -- - The final chapter of the deadly Tucson shooting saga played out in a federal courtroom Tuesday when suspect Jared Loughner was found competent by a judge to stand trial and immediately pleaded guilty to 19 charges, including the wounding of former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Prosecutors agreed in exchange not to seek the death penalty.

Loughner pleaded guilty to 19 total charges, with 30 others dismissed.

Loughner's plea included guilty pleas for the murders of U.S. District Judge John Roll and Giffords staffer Gabe Zimmerman. It also included guilty pleas for the attempted assassination of Giffords and the attempted murders of Giffords employees Pam Simon and Ron Barber. Barber succeeded Giffords as U.S. representative from Tucson.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/08/07/20120807tucson-shooting-loughner-court-hearing.html

[4th law of robotics]

1. I'm not sure what the defense is left with

[Ptah]

3. defense is done. He's guilty

[Warpy]

7. Defense probably agreed to this in order to get him medicated

to the point he'd be competent enough to enter a guilty plea. Defense managed to get him life in prison rather than the DP. They did a good job.

When you've got a guilty client facing an airtight case, you just try to get him the best deal possible.

[kestrel91316]

28. Now he will be in the general prison population and won't take his meds and

will be vulnerable to being killed. This is cruel and unusual punishment, should it happen.

He has not been given, and WILL not be given the DP by the courts, and so he should not be at risk of it in prison.

Compassion/consideration for the mentally ill FAIL.

[Warpy]

41. Institutions for the criminally insane

where they are forcibly medicated, aren't a hell of a lot better than prison and that would be his alternative.

Prison culture can confer a certain amount of distance to legitimately crazy people. They tend to leave those and the ones who find Jesus alone.

[happyslug]

11. Appeal the decision of the Judge.

You must understand in a Criminal trial, any decision of Law (Such as what is the standard to determine someone is competent to stand trial) to be appealed has to wait till the end of the Trial. Only at the end of the Trial can an appeal be taken. By having the Defendant plead guilty, the trial is over so an an appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals can take place.

Now, the Judge decides if the Defendant is competent to stand trial, but such decision must be based on evidence after a hearing, then the Judge makes a ruling based on that evidence AND what the Judge says it the law. The ruling of the Judge as to the law can be appealed.

In this case is the Defendant competent to stand trial? What is the meant by the term "Competent"? Can he be forced to take drugs to make his competent (an earlier argument in regard to the Defendant)? Is the refusal to take such medication indication of incompetency?

I do NOT have the Trial Judge's decision as to the above, but it is possible that the Defense believes what the Judge has ruled in this case as a matter of law is wrong. As such the Defense may have decided it was better to get this heard by the Ninth Circuit court of appeals then go through a trial and then appeal.

[Ptah]

12. What decision do you imagine them appealing?

[happyslug]

14. That the Defendant is Competent, and the legal test for competency

That is the only real defense the Defendant has, and I was just giving that it was an option. From what I have read, this was agreed to by all parities, but no comment that no appeal be taken (when the American who served in Afghanistan for Al Queda plead guilty for serving in an armed force against the US, he also agreed to drop all appeals, a statement missing in the reports on this plea deal).

Such a comment that it appears an appeal is possible and may be viewed by the Defense as the best way to get their client some lesser sentence. Please note if the Plea Agreement includes a no appeal clause, then no appeal will occur.

Remember in our system of law, the issue of his innocent or guilt is NOT appeal-able, you can only appeal on "Legal Technicalities". i.e did the Judge do the right thing when he ordered the Defendant to undo psychological treatment when the Defendant refused to give his own permission to undergo such treatment? Did the Judge use the "Right test" to determine the Defendant was "Competent"? Those are appeal-able legal technicalities, that he is innocent or not is NOT a legal technicality and thus NOT appeal-able.

This case revolves around the mental state of the Defendant, not that he did or did not do the shooting. His mental state, while a question of fact is reserved to the Jury (or in this case the Trial Judge sitting as the Fact-finder), what is competency is a legal determination reserved to the Judge and as a legal issue appeal-able.

[Ptah]

15. There is nothing left to appeal.

. . . i.e did the Judge do the right thing when he ordered the Defendant to undo psychological treatment. . .

That appeal has already been denied.

[former9thward]

13. The Ninth Circuit already ruled he could be drugged.

The defense had opposed it. Now he has plead guilty and it is over.

[CBGLuthier]

2. Plead Guilty or Die.

If it really is a DP case then they should never plea bargain. Coercing a plea by threatening the DP should be wrong. This is not in any way justice.

[leftyohiolib]

5. "This is not in any way justice." un-fucking-real

[flpoljunkie]

8. Mark Kelly and Gabby Giffords are satisfied with the proposed plea deal.

Earlier, Giffords’ husband said he and his wife are satisfied with the proposed plea deal with Loughner.

"Gabby and I have been in contact with the U.S. Attorneys' Office throughout this process. We don't speak for all of the victims or their families, but Gabby and I are satisfied with this plea agreement,” Kelly, a retired astronaut, said in the statement.

“The pain and loss caused by the events of January 8, 2011 are incalculable. Avoiding a trial will allow us - and we hope the whole Southern Arizona community - to continue with our recovery and move forward with our lives."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/07/13163448-loughner-agrees-to-plead-guilty-to-tucson-shootings?lite

[Auntie Bush]

4. Actually it's more punishment to get life rather than death.

With life he'll have a long, long time to suffer. With death he's out of here and can receive no more pain or suffering. His goose is cooked. He's done! Plunge in the fork.

[nichomachus]

17. Exactly.

He gets to spend the rest of his miserable life in a crappy jail with gang bangers and white supremacists who would just as soon kill him as look at him. Crappy medical care. Abusive guards. Not a good prospect for spending the next 40 years or so. Then, he'll get to die in jail.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. A high profile guy like this is usually put into protective custody.

PC or as it's called by the other convicts "Punk City".

[SoCalMusicLover]

26. Everybody Always Says Life Is Worse...

Yet the vast majority would still rather live their lives in jail, than be put to death.

Not much of a deterrent if you ask me. Otherwise you would have criminals begging....."Please oh please, whatever you do, don't send me to prison for life."

[kestrel91316]

29. Yes. Because we should force people who commit crimes while severely mentally to suffer as much

as possible.

You people are unfuckingbelievable. The hatred of schizophrenics is unfathomable to me. THESE PEOPLE RE UNABLE TO CONTROL THEIR BEHAVIOR BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK.

The proper place for him, and others like him, is permanent custody in a mental health facility with forced medication.

[Lisa0825]

6. And CNN gets it wrong again...

I got this CNN Breaking News Alert:

CNN Breaking News via ema3lsv06.turner.com

2:36 PM (18 minutes ago)

to textbreakingne.

Jared Lee Loughner, accused of shooting Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others in 2011, has been found competent to stand trial.

Loughner, 23, is accused of killing six and wounding 13 in January during a meet-and-greet event for Giffords outside a Tucson, Arizona, shopping center. Among those killed was Arizona's chief federal judge, John Roll.

Loughner has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him, including murder and attempted murder.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. Yeah, but were they first?

We all know that's what really matters in cable news.

[Enrique]

21. they were close

just three letters off

[AlphaCentauri]

10. Another social specimen to study

why our society is producing this personalities and mind sets.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

19. It's partly due to population growth

A certain percentage of the population is going to be a certain way. Say it's .0001%. With a population of 350,000,000 that's 350 people out there ready to do the same if triggered.

[AlphaCentauri]

46. 1 in 6 kids now have a developmental disability in the USA

so probably there are many more than we think just the triggers have not been activated

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. Scary,...ain't it....

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

16. I ask you, is that the action of a sane person? Hmm.

Maybe institutionalized for life, but not in prison.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. You say that as if prison doesn't have counselling.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

24. It also has inmates practically running the place.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

25. Only on TV. They have those guys in a solid schedule with bells.

Everything they do is monitored and it's all about taking away your individuality.

Gee,....almost like school....

[kestrel91316]

30. No schizophrenic has ever been helped by counseling, because it is

ORGANIC BRAIN DISEASE, and not a character defect or personality flaw.

They need antipsychotic meds, and supervision, because the nasty side effects can often make them unwilling to continue treatment.

[coalition_unwilling]

31. Remembering my Mom's experiences (since passed), I remember a mixed

regimen of talk therapies, anti-psychotic medications (like Thorazine and Stelazine) and infrequent hospitalizations where electro-shock was administered (with mixed results).

I can tell the pain and suffering you have experienced with your Mom. Please understand that you are not alone.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. Has his pathology been diagnosed as schizophrenic?

I admit a lot of the signs were there in that video he did. Especially the way he flipped from topic to topic and was stressed from trying to keep up as if his mind was going a million miles an hour. Then there was that laugh that sounded like it was covering up for crying. His sense of injustice in the world was profound mixed with a sense of persecution. It's like if someone is says, "It's not fair!" and you say, "Life isn't fair" and they want to punch you out for not having any sensitivity to their suffering. Or if a little boy is crying because the family dog died and the father smacks him saying, "Boys don't cry." He was holding back a LOT of stuff and picked up the idea that you had to be cold hearted in the world to make it and not feel anything and not care.

That's more of a sociopath but I'm sure if they study him they'll find a smorgasbord of mental disorders caused by both external and internal conflicts.

It's like I've always said, there's nothing wrong with talking to yourself. It's when you argue with yourself and then lose the argument that you have a problem.

[kestrel91316]

34. He has been diagnosed and is receiving antipsychotic meds.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. I read they gave him Thorazine.

But that stuff is pretty standard to calm anyone. It'll even calm someone who wants to bite off their own fingers. I haven't been keeping track of his treatment since his arrest.

[kestrel91316]

38. Standard treatment for newly diagnosed schizophrenics.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

40. I have no idea what that is since they have a wide selection of drugs now.

I knew someone on Lithium back in the 80s.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

33. I totally understand, adult schizophrenic son living with us on SSI for 20 + yrs.

[kestrel91316]

35. I am appalled by how many otherwise intelligent, educated people simply don't "get it"

about paranoid schizophrenics. I feel for you, living with your son.

And their lives are ALWAYS such a pathetic waste - you simply can't function or hold down a job or maintain normal social relationships at all with this disease. Even on meds most of them are considered too weird to associate with.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

39. That is rough.

Is he okay enough to have hobbies or interests to help him focus?

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

42. Very intelligent with logic problems, unbelievable memory,

great line artist, self taught musician and afraid to go outside or meet people.
We live in Oregon on 10 acres in the Forrest, with a 5 minute walk to the beach, so that helps keep him mellower than he would be in the city.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

43. Nice environment for introspection.

Any pets?

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

44. 1 cat, 1 dog, we have always had dogs and cats, lizards, mice and hamsters.

He was raised on and around the beaches of La Jolla and San Diego and is as much at home in the water, as most people are on dry land, the same holds true for myself.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

45. That's good to hear. Floating weightless in water is very relaxing.

And makes you very aware of your own body. I used to do that in the pool to unwind after a hard day.

[flamingdem]

48. My aunt was brilliant, had a scholarship to Oxford

could speak fluent French at age 17, and then she became schizophrenic.

[The_Casual_Observer]

22. I don't what's worse, assassinating the bastard or letting him live gratis on the system like Richard

Speck did for the rest of his worthless life.

[kestrel91316]

36. Assassinating him aka the death penalty should, IMHO, be considered a crime against humanity.

Schizophrenics are UNABLE to go against their deluded thoughts. Their minds are controlled by their diseased brain.

People like you disgust me.

[Sick of the GOP]

23. There's been so many shootings lately I nearly forgot which one was he was involved in...

.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. What's sad is the gun nuts know these guys by their choice of weapons.

They don't give a damn about the names of the victims, this event is remembered as a threat to their "freedom" to have large clips.

In that vein:

The Dead:
Christina Taylor Green - 9 Years old
Dorothy "Dot" Morris - Retired
John Roll - U.S. District Court Chief Judge for Arizona
Phyllis Schneck - Retired
Dorwan Stoddard - Retired
Gabriel "Gabe" Zimmerman - 30 years old - 1st Congressional staffer ever killed in the line of duty

The Survivors:
Pamela Simon - 63 - Shot twice
Mavanell Stoddard - Retired - Shot three times - Was saved by her husband who died in her arms.
George Morris - Retired - Shot twice - Tried to save his wife the same way but she died.
Randy Gardner - 60 - Shot once - Was at Kent State shooting
James Eric Fuller - 63 - Shot twice
Bill Badger - Retired - Was grazed in the head but assisted in the take down
Ronald Barber - Retired - Shot twice
Susan Hileman - 58 - Shot three times - Was holding 9 year old Christina Taylor Green's hand when the shooting stated.
Mary Reed - 52 - Shot three times as she protected her 17 year old daughter.
Kenneth Dorushka - 63 - Shot once while shielding his wife
Kenneth Veeder - Retired - Ex-Vietnam Vet grazed in the leg and released the same day.