Pastor Convicted in Parental Kidnapping Case (involving ex-lesbian and daughter)
Source: The New York Times
After only four hours of deliberation, a federal jury in Burlington, Vt., found an Amish-Mennonite pastor guilty of abetting international parental kidnapping in a widely publicized case involving same-sex unions and conservative Christian opposition to homosexuality.
The pastor, Kenneth L. Miller of Stuarts Draft, Va., could face up to three years in prison. He was convicted of helping Lisa A. Miller flee to Nicaragua with her daughter, Isabella Miller-Jenkins, in September 2009 to evade court-ordered visits with Ms. Miller's former partner in a civil union in Vermont.
After the verdict, about 100 of Mr. Miller's supporters from the Beachy Amish-Mennonite sect, the women in traditional long dresses and head scarves, gathered outside the courthouse to sing "Amazing Grace" and other hymns.
After splitting up with the former partner, Janet Jenkins, in 2003, Ms. Miller, who is not related to Mr. Miller, declared herself a born-again Christian, denounced homosexuality, soon began interfering with visits and tried to strip Ms. Jenkins of her legal rights as a parent. Ms. Miller moved to Virginia and, in 2009, as a frustrated Family Court judge in Vermont threatened to transfer custody of the girl, disappeared with her daughter.
Read more: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/us/pastor-kenneth-l-miller-convicted-in-parental-kidnapping-case.xml
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Archae
(46,297 posts)and better article - NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/us/trial-for-kenneth-miller-accused-of-aiding-in-a-kidnapping.html
Another article from the NY Times - Read this one first -
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/us/a-civil-union-ends-in-an-abduction-and-questions.html?pagewanted=all
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that maintained close relations with the mennonite church ... I'd say no (very few) observant Mennonites would be involved in aiding the kidnapping of a child BECAUSE of the same-sex relationship. I found the Mennonite Church to be among the most tolerant of all orders.
However, if there was evidence of abuse ... maybe.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)I strongly resent your implication.
The abuse is from the church and the runaway mother.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/us/trial-for-kenneth-miller-accused-of-aiding-in-a-kidnapping.html
Start here -
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/us/a-civil-union-ends-in-an-abduction-and-questions.html?pagewanted=all
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I am not attributing the actions to the church; but rather to the pastor. As I indicated, the Mennonite doctrine is tolerant on GLBT and Same-Sex matters. Though individual pastors may not be.
My statement regarding abuse, was meant to offer an instance were a doctrinal Mennonite pastor would act.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)they are "tolerant" of gays only if they are and remain celibate.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)MY experience has me witness the Mennonite church's out-reach to the GBLT community in the provision of social services and supportive services.
While the church might not be as accepting of the orientation within it's ranks, it is tolerate outside of its walls.
But then, again, that his just been my experience; your's may differ.
yardwork
(61,533 posts)The Amish are among the least tolerant people I've ever encountered. Their attitudes toward women are particularly bad. Incestual rape, for instance, is widely tolerated. If the children and women complain, they are the ones who are punished.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the Amish-Mennonite and even traditional Mennonite orders are patriarchal, sexist and, even abusive, within their church; but they tend to be tolerant, or more accurately, unconcerned with the activities of those outside the order.
obamanut2012
(26,041 posts)yardwork
(61,533 posts)The romanticism around the Amish surprises me. They have a lot in common with the Taliban.
cali
(114,904 posts)It was solely because of the same-sex relationship. No maybe about it. Tons of evidence. I live in Vermont. And Jenkins is a day care provider and there has never been an accusation of abuse- even from the piece of shit Miller.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I did not say, nor mean to imply, that there was any abuse ... I only offered that as an instance where a doctrinal Mennonite pastor would act.
obamanut2012
(26,041 posts)As well as ruining most of the puppy mills in the US (that the Amish don;t run).
dsc
(52,147 posts)make an example of him.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)Is that even a choice in the sentencing laws?
dsc
(52,147 posts)Kidnapping, the crime he made possible here, is punished by life in prison. He should get that very same punishment.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)for your purposes.
dsc
(52,147 posts)but I would feel no compunction about him getting life. sadly apparently he can only get 3 years. It is scandalous that he will be free in 3 years while a person who has 2 rocks of crack can get decades behind bars.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)rebecca_herman
(617 posts)Article says 3 years is the max.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)and Lisa Miller.
What punishment do you think is fair in light of the knowledge that somebody purposefully disappeared your child into a cult, forever?
While I wouldn't go so far as the death penalty, I do believe this crime is so heinous (the child is going to end up brainwashed into a subservient patriarchal cult) it demands something pretty severe. Jenkins must be in terrible pain - knowing her daughter is alive and will be raised in such a hideous situation, never having contact with her again.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)MissMarple
(9,656 posts)We are supposed to be the civilized adults. Perhaps I am mistaken.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)I gather you think the kidnapping by the cult was a reasonable reaction to a lesbian mother who had visiting rights.
Is that the problem - THAT LESBIAN?
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)You are going vigilante. Should we all go out and establish our own form of justice?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I don't think so. The judge will rule but I really hope its life in prison. The cult apparently believes that disappearing children for religious purposes and brainwashing is okay.
No fucking way if you ask me. Slap that shit down and impose a maximum sentence.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)I, in no way, defend this person. If you want to change the law advocate for that. I might join you. An "off with head" gesture, no.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)with your lame off-point comments.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I have no idea what your point is other than you appear to be horrified(?) that the rest of us are horrified(!) at this crime, and that we're advocating for the full measure of justice.
Mosby
(16,252 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)every day in this country people get life for tiny amounts of drugs and small violent crimes. This person made possible a kidnapping of a child, who still hasn't been found BTW. Kidnapping in this country is punished by life in prison.
cali
(114,904 posts)And it's clear you know jack shit about the case or the law governing it. that couldn't be more clear.
but I think since we as a society evidently decided that such sentences are fair then I think a life sentence for making a kidnapping possible is perfectly in order. This child is likely gone forever and being raised by a hate filled cult.
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)Lesbian Mom Of Kidnapped Daughter Files Organized Crime Suit Against Multiple Christian Organizations
http://www.joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/08/lesbian-mom-of-kidnapped-daughter-files.html
Janet Jenkins is a brave woman.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)Jesus, Mary, and Joseph...give me patience.
Not you, alp227.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)will someone please ready the fainting couch?
yardwork
(61,533 posts)in which the character Piggy is murdered by a gang of children.
I have no idea why that would come up in reference to this kidnapping case.
yardwork
(61,533 posts)Would you care to clarify?
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)perhaps there is a god...
Edit: And perhaps the Feds will bring the appropriate charges.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)I believed the "make an example if him" was way over the top. That isn't justice. But, I suppose it was a very emtional response to a tragic event. We have sentencing laws to insulate us from arbitrary punishments. Devolving into vigilantism and vengence is something we have seen too much of, especially since September 11, 2001. Are the sentencing laws fair, just, and consistent? No, and neither is our tax code and ahost of other things.
I was reacting to the extreme demands of the other poster. I expect better from DUers, not calling for life imprisonment on the basis of newspaper articles. "The Lord of the Flies" illustrated how close we are to savagery.
dsc
(52,147 posts)it is called deterrence. The fact is a famous conservative has called for an underground railroad to do what was done in this case. Deterrence is necessary.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)Certainty of being caught and certainty of being convicted are imperative elements. And the individual must be rational and able to be influenced by these for deterrance to work. Ideologues, religious or otherwise, may not view the deterrent as a more rational person would. This guy is on a mission from "god", ideology will find a way. Consistently catching and sentencing these is individuals is key far above alife sentence. The other thing to consider is if a sentence is viewed to be too punitive, as more people are beginning to understand about our drug sentencing laws. Things went pretty wacko in the '80s with "get tough on crime" and "third strike" laws. Things like that don't modify or deter behaviors.
You touched on a deeply held pet peeve of mine and I was seeing torches and pitchforks. I just think we have had enough of that. But, just to be clear, the guy should be charged, tried and if convicted, sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. I certainly hope this turns out well for the child.
dsc
(52,147 posts)yes swift certainty is good too.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)if this shit stands, next up: kidnapping pregnant women to save their fetuses
yardwork
(61,533 posts)Nobody on DU has the power to affect this person's sentencing. Venting from people tired of the constant abuse that is heaped on gay people is to be expected from empathetic people. It seems to me that some posters in this thread are showing a lot more empathy for the perpetrator of a crime than they are for people who are directly affected every day by homophobia. A kind comment or two would go a long way toward getting everybody back on the same page.
Food for thought.
MissMarple
(9,656 posts)I am sorry for the pain caused by the homophobic and the bigoted. Kidnapping a child from a loving parent for any reason is unforgivable. This happens all too often for religious, cultural and selfish reasons.
I have no empathy at all for the persons responsible in the kidnapping of Isabella. It is good to see that a RICO suit has been filed. I wish Janet Jenkins great success. The RICO suit may be the best way to address this. They need to go after them all, not just the pastor. These people make a mockery of the Christian faith.
Galations 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And, I didn't call or accuse DUers of being savages. The veneer of civilization can be all too thin. Also, as another poster claimed, I don't clutch at pearls, although I do wear them. Putting that guy in jail for life would make a martyr of him, then you would see some real pearl clutching from the "christian" ladies.
Peace
trayfoot
(1,568 posts)in the national news!!! I know who the preacher is, but did not know all this was going on. It really has not been covered much at all in the local press!
DURHAM D
(32,603 posts)At least joemygod has it.
Veritas Omnia Vincit
(13 posts)I don't know enough about this case but some sources have reported that when the couple decided to become parents Ms. Jenkins decided against being named as a parent on the birth certificate.
Is that accurate?
I ask because I am curious to understand how a couple can have a child together gay or straight, and then when one of them isn't listed on the birth certificate how that affects parental rights.
Was there an adoption in place?
It's clear she violated the law, and is now an FBI fugitive and I hope she is caught and prosecuted.
I just want to wrap my head around all of this. How does it work with straight couples when in a second marriage the non biological parent has bonded with the step children but the couple divorces? Is the non-biological step parent also entitled to visitation rights? And could that parent be granted custody in the event the other biological ex was dead?
Thanks for any attempt to clarify, I appreciate the assistance. This all gets murky in my head at times.