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alp227

(32,018 posts)
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 05:56 PM Aug 2012

Julian Assange extradition: Ecuador 'willing to co-operate' with Britain

Source: The Guardian

Ecuador is still willing to negotiate with the British government over the fate of Julian Assange, despite the Foreign Office's "threat" to arrest the WikiLeaks founder inside its embassy and the "intimidating" police presence in and around the building, according to a senior Ecuadorean diplomatic source.

The South American country's decision to grant political asylum to the 41-year-old Australian, who faces allegations of sexual assault in Sweden, has provoked a bitter political row between Quito and London.

The source complained that the UK government's written warning that it could use the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987 to arrest Assange inside the embassy had been accompanied by a large increase in the number of police officers at the Knightsbridge building.

...

"In the negotiations with the FCO, Ecuador has been proposing that we would be prepared to accept an undertaking from the UK and Sweden that, once Julian Assange has faced the Swedish investigation, he will not be extradited to a third country: specifically the US. That might be a way out of it and Ecuador has always said it does not want to interfere with the Swedish judicial process; we could facilitate it."

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/aug/17/julian-assange-extradition-ecuador-embassy

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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DearAbby

(12,461 posts)
1. Well the ball has been tossed into their court
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 06:08 PM
Aug 2012

Their answer will prove if Wikileaks founder was correct to fear rendition via US.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
2. Sweden has already rejected that proposal.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 06:10 PM
Aug 2012

Which indicates their intent is to hand Assange over for US rendition, not try him in Swedish court for alleged crimes there.

ikri

(1,127 posts)
3. True, but
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 06:25 PM
Aug 2012

Under EU law if Britain extradites Assange to Sweden (or anywhere else in the EU) Britain has the final word on whether Sweden can extradite him onward to another country. It gives Britain a route out of this clusterfuck and no additional agreements with Sweden are necessary.

It wouldn't stop Sweden from extraditing Assange to the US but they'd be breaching an EU treaty by doing so (it's worth adding that Ecuador has an extradition treaty with the US, so even if Assange was living in the Ecuador he wouldn't be any safer from extradition there than in the UK or Sweden).

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
5. I don't much care for legalities
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 06:47 PM
Aug 2012

but from what I've read the bilateral extradition treaty between Sweden and US is not restricted by EU cautions and provides the easiest legal loophole for getting Assange into US custody. And nobody has claimed so far that Ecuador's governement is using Karl Rove for political advisor. And as for asylum right, once granted, AFAIK it can only be legally cancelled because of serious crime. Or by coup in the granting country, but those are not exactly legal...

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
4. Naomi Wolf
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 06:39 PM
Aug 2012

made quite plausible argument that the Swedish procedure has been so outlandish and out of norm that there has never been any intention to prosecute Assange based on the allegations and "lagföring", but to hand out Assange to US right away.
http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/02/eight-big-problems-with-the-case-against-assange-must-read-by-naomi-wolf/

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
6. I agree that the actions of Sweden and UK
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 06:51 PM
Aug 2012

would seem to indicate the charges (whether true or bogus) are merely a pretext to get Assange on Swedish soil where he would be renditioned by the US. Which, is highly exploiting the alleged victims, and an insult to actual rape victims.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
7. I know. The sheer scale of rape in the US, during our wars
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 06:56 PM
Aug 2012

Hell even Sweden (which has some of the worst rape prosecution stats in Europe)...

... and everyone's getting worked up over THIS case?

My heart just breaks for real rape victims who often wait (forever) for justice.

This political stunt is hideous, especially in its treatment of women. Especially the women involved in the Assange case, who've been told by their paternalistic state that they don't really know that they've been "raped"! And that despite the women's adamant desire to NOT press charges, the paternalistic state believes it can supercede the wishes of its own citizens and advance the case FOR them). I can't even imagine being the women involved - if this ever comes to a resolution in Sweden they will be forced to become hostile witnesses (if they can be found. One of them has fled the country and vows to not return) detailing their sex with Assange?!

Ick. Just completely patriarchal and disgusting. I'd bet a million dollars that virtually all of the posters pressing that this "rape" case go forward are all men - despicable, sexist, voyeuristic men.
 

tama

(9,137 posts)
8. Well
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 07:22 PM
Aug 2012

Sadly most of the Swedish officials pressing this case - from the Minister of Justice to prosecutors and lawyers "representing" the two women and police officers first receiving the case and leaking it to tabloids have been women.

And from what I've read the term "despicable" and "sexist" describe many of those Swedish women very well. For example Swedish minister of Justice has suggested that subpeanas to male suspects of rape/sexual misconduct should be posted in pink envelopes to be recognizable for public humiliation. Swedish law associations have considered this suggestion "barbaric" and "mediaval".

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
9. Yes, the women are being used as political pawns,
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 07:29 PM
Aug 2012

which appears to be far worse than what Assange possibly did.

rootProbiscus

(38 posts)
10. exactly the consular assistance that should have been provided by the weaselly warts in Australia
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 08:04 PM
Aug 2012

The complaining would have been minimal if the threat of extradition to the US was removed
The consular assistance that should have been provided was precisely what Ecuador is asking for.
The weaselly warts in Canberra simply consider Julian to be a criminal and believe that he should face trial in the US
In Australia he would not be found guilty of anything.
The time Mr Carr says he has spent on the Assange case was simply because he will not support proper process, it would have taken about two seconds for him to say f*** off and the matter would have been closed.
And as for the silence from Turnbull, it is one of the more disgusting cop outs ever. This man defended Peter Wright for the same principles. He is now in a position of influence, a senior member of the opposition. And we have - silence. No money in it?, new masters?, whatever, a cop out.

Swagman

(1,934 posts)
11. One has to respect Naomi Wolf's assessment of this affair
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
Aug 2012

she is a highly credible writer who investigates her reports and she presents facts that make this case appear completely bizarre in the way the alleged victims have been treated against all convention.

Sexual assault victims are never ever treated like this in most civilized countries where these days where even the most hardened police are trained to be sensitive.
They have been used as pawns. Whatever went on, the process has been a disgrace and to read that Karl Rove's sticky fingers are involved disgusts me.

All evidence points to a concerted effort by the Swedes and the USA with co-operation of Australia and the UK to get Assange to the USA by any means possible

I've been shocked and rather saddened to read comments by a handful of DUers who laugh at the idea of a conspiracy, who seem to hate Assange and are blinded to so many separate actions that give every indication Assange is in genuine fear.

the video released by Manning via Assange of a gunship murdering Iraqis would infuriate any powerful force. To simply believe that Assange is some publicity 'freak' and so on is either wilful ignorance or a delibertaly denial that our governments are perfectly capable of breaking their own laws in murderous ways.

It's as though the years 2000-2008 never happened. But as a private message to me pointed out :not all DUers may be what they seem even those with extraordinary large post counts.

But the treatment of Bradley Manning should be more than enough to convince everyone that authorities would relentlessly pursue anyone associated with Assange,

You do not have to like Manning or Assange, you can disagree with what they have done but when you accept the way Manning has been incarcerated for years (as so many have in Cuba) without trial and mentally tortured : when you do night fight that then you give covert support.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
14. The extraordinary large post counts are perplexing.
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:41 AM
Aug 2012

If you have any insight as to how "not all DUers may be what they seem even those with extraordinary large post counts," it would be appreciated if you could share that.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
12. I hope that Ecuador is not fooled by Sweden's promise not to extradite to the U.S.
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:17 AM
Aug 2012

The U.K.'s Corporate Rulers have been ruthless in the joint pursuit of dominion over the world's oil with the U.S. They helped slaughter a hundred thousand innocent people for that goal and also colluded on rendition and torture. They will do--are obviously are doing--whatever the U.S.'s Corporate Rulers ask them to do. They have been clearly contemplating violating an embassy in defiance of the bottom line of international law.

It won't matter what Sweden promises Ecuador. I hope Ecuador realizes this and I hope also that they don't use such a "crocodile promise" as cover to get out of the confrontation. I don't think they will but you never know with governments, even good governments (and Ecuador has a very good government--the best, most stable and most social justice-minded in their history).

There are two quite big issues here. One of them is oil--the oil between the British colony called the Falklands and the Argentine coast and the oil in Ecuador (a member of OPEC) and in countries allied with Ecuador, chiefly Brazil and Venezuela. The Corporate Rulers of the U.S. and the U.K. want control of all this oil, just as they want it in the Middle East, but the new and historic leftist democracy movement in South America (and in parts of Central America and the Caribbean) is determined that this and other resources be used for the benefit of the people who live there, at long last. They reject their previous status as the U.S. "back yard." They seek sovereignty and independence and, what is more, have forged historic unity on this and other matters.

The other is human rights, about which the U.S. and the U.K. are so insufferably hypocritical. They won't prosecute Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld for torturing prisoners, and Blair for colluding with it, or for murdering tens of thousands with "shock and awe" bombing, but they will go after a journalist, Assange, who has done nothing more than the New York Times did with the Pentagon Papers--publish them.

This is only the latest in a vast, bloody panorama of U.S./U.K. violations of human rights throughout the modern era, both internally and externally. Hell, the U.S. just paid out over $7 BILLION to the Colombian military and its death squads to murder thousands of trade unionists and other advocates of the poor, in prep for U.S. "free trade for the rich," and now is doing the same thing in Honduras after helping overturn Honduras' democracy. The list is VERY LONG of direct U.S. human rights atrocities, past and current, and proxy atrocities. The U.K. has not been so overt about it (except in Ireland, and, of course, in Iraq) but, at least since Thatcher, it has been the enthusiastic ally of the U.S. as it has committed horrendous atrocities, such as the 200,000 Mayan villagers slaughtered in Guatemala and the illegal war on Nicaragua in the 1980s.

And both countries, or rather, both countries' Corporate Rulers and the political establishments that serve them have created police states within our once progressive countries, with ever decreasing human and civil rights and ever decreasing democratic governance. Latin America, which is undergoing a leftist democracy revolution--with great advances in human and civil rights, and honest transparent elections and "New Deal"-type governments with policies of social justice--is quite justified in its outrage at being lectured by the U.S., for instance, on human rights. The U.S. couldn't care less about human rights. It violates human rights all over the planet.

What the U.S. doesn't like is truly democratically elected leaders telling corporations what they can and can't do in their countries. The U.S. don't like real democracy. It doesn't like fairness in the marketplace or the media. When a leader like Hugo Chavez tries to create balance in the broadcast media--as we once had here, with the "Fairness Doctrine," wherein private corporations were not allowed to use the public airwaves for self-serving political propaganda (a ban ended by the Reaganites)--our Corporate Rulers scream bloody murder. 'He's violating human rights!' (They mean corporate 'rights.') "He's against free speech!' (They mean corporate speech.) He's a "dictator"! (Who are the dictators, really?) Chavez has combined new licensing requirements for corporate broadcasters with an infusion of resources into public broadcasting, especially community broadcasting. They don't like that. They think it's tyrannical. Har-har!

So, it is with withering irony, I'm sure, that Ecuador (its president being one of these leftist "tyrants&quot has accused the U.S. of plotting to violate Julan Assange's human and civil rights. I think their charge is quite true and it is great to see it coming from a government that the U.S. has grievously slandered and has mounted several plots against. Ecuador is speaking and acting for most of Latin America which is sick and tired of U.S. domination and interference and U.S.-sponsored horrors.

This "sex crimes" allegation against Assange has been absurd, on its details, from the beginning, and is such a nothing case that the Swedish prosecutors haven't brought charges, and, when Assange made himself available for questioning, they refused to do so. This is the sort of thing that the Nixonites were seeking when they burglarized Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office--something to smear him with. It is, a) a smear, and b) the way Swedish authorities have devised to get Assange into custody in order to render him to the U.S.

So if Sweden promises not to do that--not to extradite him to the U.S.--and Ecuador buys into it and gives up this persecuted journalist, to whom they have granted political asylum, to Swedish authorities--look out! He will be "rendered" so fast it will make our heads spin and he will never be heard from again. The U.S. has ZERO basis on which to try him, so they won't--or at least not in public. He will probably be suicided. At the least, he will be dumped into the deepest dungeon they can find and completely silenced. And the whole story will slip into the Corporate News "river of forgetfulness."

Does Ecuador want that on their heads? I'm sure they do not. Once they give up Assange, they will have absolutely no power to save him, and they will have lost their point about the U.S. and human rights and their point about Latin American sovereignty will be muddied.

The U.K.'s Corporate Rulers are in a devil's alliance with the U.S. based on greed. It's not so obvious what's in it for Sweden but very probably it is also greed and may have something to do with games Sweden has played as to the Iraq War and other matters. What a dirty game Sweden is playing now! It hints at hidden dirt. I've just recently read that Karl Rove is advising them. How appropriate. Rove goes free after all the crap he did here, and gets in on the kill for Assange, if they succeed. One shudders for Swedish democracy.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
13. Can Assange be safe in any country? The Brits are undoubtedly considering all options, including
Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:38 AM
Aug 2012

bribing Ecuador officials with whatever they want.

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