Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

[Bosonic]

Source: BBC

Pakistani police have arrested a mentally disabled 11-year-old girl after a mob accused her of desecrating pages of the Koran.

The mob demanded the Christian girl's arrest and threatened to burn down Christian homes outside the capital Islamabad, local media say.

Officials said the girl could not properly answer police questions.

...

It is thought that the girl has Down's syndrome.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19311098

[a geek named Bob]

1. another place not to visit

[movonne]

2. Well this is religion for you....and the Christians here are

getting about as bad...

[whathehell]

11. Nice try.

But it's not "religion", In this case, it's Islam coupled with incredible ignorance.

[The Wielding Truth]

21. ???? Islam is a religion and we have our fill of ignorant people.

[whathehell]

29. Yes, but we have laws and a culture that prohibits executing people for "blasphemy"

Big difference.

[The Wielding Truth]

50. We have R/R running for president/vp with loads of radical Teabaggers in Congress. We are looking

down the road and with this crowd a legal religious stoning could already in their vocabulary. When they are blind enough to put person-hood on the table and legislate vaginal probes, You really think anything is out of bounds.They are fanatics and they cannot be trusted to do the best thing for the people of our country.

[whathehell]

55. You and I are in complete agreement on that,

but the true test of this society's "willingness" to go down that road

is for the most conservative state in the union to vote down "personhood" for fertilized eggs,

not to mention arresting children for religious "blasphemy'.

That sort of thing comes out of a VERY different sort of culture.

[Ash_F]

63. Stow your race-baiting

Note that what is now the Islamic third world used to be a lot more moderate, more moderate than the West...before it became the third world. The United States was radically socially conservative prior to the reforms of the 30's and then the 60's. Today, Germany and Japan are much more centrist than their war-time and early post-war days. We can go back to the far-right just as Pakistan can go to the center.


"That sort of thing comes out of a VERY different sort of culture." This statement smacks of ethnic prejudice. Everyone can see the sense of superiority and the people you would want to move to your side would instead be repelled by that kind of language.


What is happening in Pakistan right now is, in fact, a fight to move to the center. That is what the civil war is about, ultra-rightists not being able to accept that change and resisting it violently. Americans, DUers and the rest of the world would do well to understand this fact and avoid attacking their religion and culture. People identify with those two things much more strongly than the simple question of whether this girl did anything wrong. Attack someones' identity and they stop listening to everything else you might say. The hope for changing their mind goes out the window.

[whathehell]

66. Stow your bullshit.

First of all, I don't look at people in the middle east as a particular "race".

Secondly, pointing out distinctions, even strong distinctions, is mandatory if we're interested in being factual.

Not being not a diplomat charged with trying to change the charming "religion" and/or "culture" that's ready

to kill a mentally disabled young girl for "blasphemy", I don't feel the need to mince words.

Sorry if you're offended, but my values tell me to be more "offended" by the above actions.

[Ash_F]

69. Reads like a post from Stormfront. nt/

[christx30]

60. WE also have people

on sites that free republic that are prefectly ok with cases like Madonna being sued in Russia for supporting gay rights. "I hope they nail that #$%#$" and crap like that. You don't think it could happen here? Put those people and their supporters in charge for 4 years and things will get uncomfortable in this country for people like you and me.

[oldsarge54]

57. Well, maybe

No, we have do seems to have a lot of organizations that are very well armed and willing to execute for blasphemy. They are called militias.

[whathehell]

58. Nah.

Last edited Tue Aug 21, 2012, 12:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Those "militias" would have a snowball's chance in hell against the Armed Forces of the USA.

[panzerfaust]

26. ? not religion ?!? The girl may be executed for 'desecrating' a 'holy' book

under the blasphemy laws of her religious nation.

If that ain't pure ole-time religion, then nothing is.

[whathehell]

28. Sure, because you see Protestants executing kids every day for blasphemy, Right?

Sorry, bro, but condemning "religion" for that sort of behavior is like condemning "government"

for the actions of Stalin.

[sarcasmo]

18. +1

[whathehell]

30. In your pc dreams, bro.

I've yet to hear of any Christian, however, extreme, advocating

arrest or execution of a child for blaphemy. .

[hifiguy]

35. The dominionists would have no problem with this.

None whatsoever.

I suggest you google R.J. Rushdoony, who is their "patron saint."

Here are a few links illustrating the degree to which these nihilistic psychotics have infiltrated the highest levels of government:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/09/13/100913fa_fact_boyer

http://www.amazon.com/The-Family-Secret-Fundamentalism-American/dp/0060560053

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

www.yuricareport.com/

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-show-c-street-familys-uganda

They do walk among us, openly. And they are deadly dangerous; they constitute a grave threat to democracy and any form of rationalism and modernity.

[whathehell]

59. I know something about the Dominionists and yes, they are VERY scary, so much so

that even your standard religious nuts like Ralph Reed and company, have disavowed them.

But thank you for these links. I haven't read much about them lately, so I will definitely read them.

[Macoy51]

38. What Have You Done to Make the World a Better Place?

Two weeks ago, over 100 people from my church got together and passed out 1,500 backpacks full of schools supplies for poor children. We also fed them and offered a host of other fun activities for the kids. This week end we are doing it again (this time aimed at the homeless) and we hope to make it a weekly event…all in the name of religion.

We also meet every Thursday night to provide meals for everyone from homeless, drug/alcohol abusers to people just down on their luck.....……again, all in the name of religion.

So tell me, O wise basher of religions…what have YOU done?


Macoy

[Dr. Strange]

40. It looks to me...

like movonne has tried to protect us by sending out a warning of you and your ilk, what with your giving out backpacks of school supplies and feeding kids. We're onto you!

Welcome to DU!

[hamsterjill]

47. Welcome to DU.

Thank you for your efforts with the backpacks and the meals, etc.

I hope you will continue to participate in acts of kindness such as these. That said, I hope you would agree that there are also other groups who do these types of things that are not connected with any specific religion.

I spent the weekend adopting out animals. And while I'm a Christian myself, I was standing alongside several atheists and agnostics who were working just as hard as I was.

In my opinion, religion doesn't have a monopoly on either good nor evil. But it's unfortunate when people use religion to promote hate and harm (as with the young Pakistani girl) when it should be used to promote compassion and understanding.

[Macoy51]

56. You are correct

You are correct, religion does not have a monopoly on good, but several people will post as if religion has, if not a monopoly on evil, at least is strongly predisposed to evil.



Macoy

[The Wielding Truth]

54. I know you and I are not comfortable in bosting our givings. You can not call out the good deeds of

the generous atheists or organized religion critics who share our mission of political democracy. We celebrate your good deeds and the good deeds of all who come here to DU.



I get your point. But really, a fight to prove who is the best giver. Let's see who can give the most to keep a nation giving to it's needy and not it's wealthy 1%.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

45. Sorry, I disagree with that....

....but like Islam, it's a vocal minority who are being allowed to tell everyone else what the quiet majority should do.

[4th law of robotics]

64. Every single time

every time a religion piece comes up that puts muslims in a bad light some tries out the stock response of "well christians are just as bad!".

[hifiguy]

3. More barbarism and idiocy in the name of

an imaginary sky daddy. I really am beginning to doubt that the human race deserves to survive if it can't transcend base stupidity of this sort.

[whathehell]

34. Except this kind of "idiocy and barbarism" in modern times tends

to confine itself to Fundamentalist Islam in underdeveloped third world countries.

But keep trying, bro...Someday you may be brave enough to actually say it.

[hifiguy]

36. See my post #35.

There are plenty of powerful people in this country who desire nothing more than to walk down the same road. This is a dangerous phenomenon about which one cannot afford to be compacent. Educate yourself.

[whathehell]

37. See the Constitution

and what it says about separation of church and state, and while you're at it,

you might want to check a dictionary too, because if you think there is any consensus in this country

for executing children for "blasphemy", you may need to educate yourself

on "paranoia" as well.

[hifiguy]

39. There is a sizable cadre of people in this country

who view the Constitution as toilet paper - a sinful document which should be rejected in all its parts. Read the links. The dominionists believe in establishing "Old Testament" law as the law of the land. The differences between this "law" and the Shari'a law that has them so worked up is, fundamentally, zero. They believe in the death penalty for GLBT people and have been actively involved in proposing such a law in Uganda. Yes, American politicians have been a part of this. It's not an opinion, it is a FACT.

The Repuke party is now comprised, in significant part, of people with these truly psychotic delusions. Harper's and The Atlantic are not fringe publications, in case you hadn't noticed. and Rachel Maddow has done some exemplary work in exposing these lunatics.

Is it happening now? No. Are there those who wish it to be? Damn skippy there are. And they are, to repeat, influential in the Repuke party and are constantly seeking to expand their influence. That is how this country winds up with cretinous, bible-thumping morons like Todd Akin being elected to congress.

Wise up.

[whathehell]

41. There is a sizable cadre of people in this country who believe in alien abductions.

but damn, skippy, we need to stop getting all worked up about what people "wish" things

to be and concentrate on what things ARE, and as I said, we need to be VIGILANT,

extremely so, about SEPARATION of Church and State!


The Repuke Party DOES contain a lot of nuts, and I AM very concerned about

their influence...My spouse and I talk about it a LOT. The thing is, though,

I believe we have a MUCH better chance of containing their influence

by concentrating on the law, and standing FIRM on separation of church than

we would on trying to get them to give up any and all religion

Whatever you think of religion, that's NOT going to work -- Seventy years of communism didn't work,

As you can see by the many in Russia that have gone back to their traditional religion.

[whathehell]

73. I saw it and answered it.

Read your own posts before ordering others to "educate" themselves.

[cpwm17]

70. And often in countries being brutalized by evil MF'ers from Western countries

This time by the US. We only make the situation in Pakistan much worse.

Some Pakistanis blame Christians for US bad behavior. It's more to do with plain old greed, selfishness, and bigotry in the US.

[whathehell]

71. Sure, because no one does a bad thing on their own..It's always the "evil MF'ers" from the West.

Please -- can't you see how patronizing that sounds?

"Some Pakistanis blame Christians for US bad behavior. It's more to do with plain old greed, selfishness, and bigotry in the US".

As it often is in other countries as well. The third world is not all starry eyed innocents being corrupted

by the Big Bad West.

[cpwm17]

76. People are responsible for their own behavior - including us

I was pointing out that the US is engaging in brutal behavior itself, which can't be ignored. And inevitably some in brutalized societies will turn to extremism. It's human nature. The West shouldn't ignore its own bad behavior. That's selective memory.

It's easier for some to demonize the other. You wrote:

Except this kind of "idiocy and barbarism" in modern times tends to confine itself to Fundamentalist Islam in underdeveloped third world countries.

I have a hard time with this attitude when it's directed against countries that we are brutalizing. It's stereotypical imperial bigotry to demonize such victims.

[whathehell]

78. No kidding.

and I think everyone here accepts that responsibility.

As for the "idiocy and barbarism" statement, you will note that I was QUOTING someone

else, and the thread, thus far, had been confining itself to RELIGIOUS violence, not political.

The violence being perpetrated upon this young girl was the direct result of some perceived

religious "blasphemy" and not anything being done by the West....Got it?

[Arugula Latte]

4. Ahh, religion. If only we could eradicate you like the pox you are.

[whathehell]

12. Sure, because you could find the same thing happening at a Methodist Church in Iowa, right?

Try again.

[Arugula Latte]

14. Oh, yeah, 'cuz Midwestern Christians are never extremists, huh?

"Legitimate rape" -- and that was just one small example from today.

Fuck religion.

[whathehell]

16. Oh yeah...'cuz you think anyone who's not atheist is a right wing Christian "extremist", duh.

and "legitimate rape" is not a tenet of ANY religion, it's a tenet of

an ignorant, misogynistic individual.

Fuck atheism.

[Skittles]

22. spoken like a true Christian

[whathehell]

31. Spoken like an atheist whose combined PC and "over reach" has cost them their credibility.

[JoeyT]

25. And you apparently think

all of Islam are fundamentalist lunatics.

Fuck bigots.

[whathehell]

32. No, and I'd say it's "apparent" only to the type of non-discerning

ignorant atheist who try and paint all "religion" as being the same.

Fuck morons.

[Arugula Latte]

42. Here we are...yet another tidbit of Christian extremism in this country. Akin's pal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021166192

3. Kennedy held that the Bible should set our laws about rape and abortion. Kennedy is very explicit on this point, saying “In the Bible, the child of rape was allowed to live and the rapist was put to death. Today, we find that the penalties against rape have become more and more lenient, whereas the child is now the subject of capital punishment. Justice has been totally destroyed and perverted in that the guilty are practically allowed to go free and the innocent are killed.” This fits with Kennedy’s general view that we should “rebuild America based on the Bible.”

This is just one example of lunacy among tens of thousands of examples. Millions of Christians think the Bible is the literal truth, and a slew of ugly consequences flow from that. I repeat, religion is a pox upon our land.

[whathehell]

46. No one doubts there are plenty of extremist "thoughts" here, the point is

that, unlike Pakistan, for instance, the laws and overall culture of this country won't ALLOW them to be acted out,

at least not with impunity or without penalty of law.

When even Mississippi votes down the "personhood law" that makes a fertilized egg

a "person", you know you're a long way from executing kids for blasphemy.

[Arugula Latte]

51. My point is that religion brings all societies down & the world would be much better off without it.

[whathehell]

53. Fine, but intellectual honesty should keep you from saying "theyre all same"

as it's simply, and really quite obviously, untrue.

[sarcasmo]

19. +1

[amuse bouche]

20. Can't

find a word to disagree with

[Politicub]

5. It's just a book. The people who arrested or called for the arrest sicken me.

Fundamentalism is a social disease.

What a hellhole.

[whathehell]

33. You're getting close..

but you're stil not quite brave enough to discern the "fundamentalism" of

every western religion you know from fundamentalist Islam, right?

I understand.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

44. Why don't you get close enough to admit....

....that there are those on the Christian right who admire this sort of "law", and would gladly engage in it here if they could?

[whathehell]

48. Read my posts.

[Politicub]

68. Let me be clear, then

I detest any sort of fundamentalism that brutalises people or impedes free thinking.

And as much as I would like to know about all of the world's religions, there are tons of other subjects that interest me, too.

But from what little knowledge I have, it's clear that religious fundamentalism holds humanity back rather than propelling it forward.

[whathehell]

72. We'll both be clear.

I also oppose "any Fundamentalism that brutalizes people or impedes free thinking", although I think

most would agree that "brutalizing" people is on a somewhat higher scale of evil than impeding free thought.


So where is our argument?

[Politicub]

79. I'm not sure

But at least we both know where we stand .

[virgogal]

6. The poor little girl.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

7. Maybe they need to read this.

Maybe we all should.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

[Proletariatprincess]

9. Thank you for posting this link.

I have never read the entire declaration until now.
The US Constitution is not as good and progressive as is this document. Clearly, the USA is in violation of several provisions although it still prides itself on its freedom and liberty.
This would be a better world if the worlds only(for now) existing superpower embraced this Declaration of Human Rights and stopped undermining the United Nations at every oportunity. In fact, I have come to believe that the world may be better off without the undue influence of the USA.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

10. We have been conditioned to believe that we are a kind and peaceful nation.

[whathehell]

13. Well, at least we're not inclined to arrest developmentally disabled children for blaphemy.

.

[Ashgrey77]

62. No we just burn people for being witches,

or hang them for being black.

[whathehell]

67. I think you want to use the PAST tense there, bro

Hideous as it was, the last "lynching" was more than a half century ago

and "witch burning" ?...Try three centuries plus.

[LeftishBrit]

8. Horrifying

[red dog 1]

15. "She was carrying a waste bag which also had pages of the Koran"???

According to the BBC, Pakistan's Minister For National Harmony told the BBC that the girl was known to have a mental disorder and that it seemed "unlikely she purposefully desecrated the Koran."
Yet, the mob demanded the girl's arrest and threatened to burn down Christian homes....Her parents have been taken into protective custody following threats and other Christian families have fled, according to the article.


"Between 2002-2010, Pakistan received approximately $18 billion in military and economic aid from the United States.
Western officials have claimed nearly 70% (roughly $3.4 billion) of the aid given to the military has been misspent.in 2002-2007 and used to cover the civilian deficit."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Pakistan

[SoapBox]

17. Sick...and this is what no education looks like.

And the Party of Thug, Bully and Bagger was more religion in our education system?

Me thinks not!

[iamthebandfanman]

23. its instances like this that i point too

when christians here say they are oh so oppressed

[limpyhobbler]

24. It's nice to think one of these mobs together with some Taliban could take over some Pakistani nukes

[bananas]

27. I'm so glad that Pakistan has nuclear weapons.

[christx30]

61. I agree with you

And it's abso-fing-lutely wonderful that they get billions in aid from us. That aid goes a long way to stopping religious extreamism.

again

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

43. It's the culture....

.....you just don't understand!

[whathehell]

49. And what I think we all do "understand"

is it's not the culture OR the religion of the majority in the western world.

No sarcasm needed.

[get the red out]

52. Makes you wonder

Makes you wonder who actually has the mental disorder, the poor girl with Down's syndrome or the mob that demanded she be arrested? Personally, I think I know the answer to that.

[4th law of robotics]

65. Don't forget "epilepsy" is just sciencey speak for demon-possessed

Sheesh.

What a bunch of savages.

[Odin2005]

75. I have no words!

[liberallibral]

77. So Sick, Twisted, and Backwards...

Poor girl...