Trump doc says Trump bodyguard, lawyer 'raided' his office, took medical files

[herding cats]

Source: NBC

Dr. Harold Bornstein said he felt "raped" after White House aide Keith Schiller and lawyer Alan Garten showed up unannounced and took Trump's files.


In February 2017, a top White House aide who was Trump's longtime personal bodyguard, along with the top lawyer at the Trump Organization and a third man, showed up at the office of Trump's New York doctor without notice and took all the president's medical records.

The incident, which Dr. Harold Bornstein described as a "raid," took place two days after Bornstein told a newspaper that he had prescribed a hair growth medicine for the president for years.

In an exclusive interview in his Park Avenue office, Bornstein told NBC News that he felt "raped, frightened and sad" when Keith Schiller and another "large man" came to his office to collect the president's records on the morning of Feb. 3, 2017. At the time, Schiller, who had long worked as Trump's bodyguard, was serving as director of Oval Office operations at the White House.

"They must have been here for 25 or 30 minutes. It created a lot of chaos," Bornstein said, who described the incident as frightening.



Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-doc-says-trump-bodyguard-lawyer-raided-his-office-took-n870351

[pnwest]

1. is there anything left to say about this common thug, other than wow. just wow.

[Stuart G]

2. k and r..nt

[leftynyc]

6. What's illegal about a patient

wanting his medical records? I simply don't see why this is even a story.

[bucolic_frolic]

14. There are procedures to obtain medical records

signed consent for one

HIPPA regulations for another

The patient doesn't own his records. They are the property of the medical organization who made them and holds them.

While they might be bought or sold to third parties such as other medical providers in a merger or takeover, one cannot just run in and seize them.

[exboyfil]

16. The doctor should not have revealed confidential patient

Info but without a court order you cannot seize records. While you should always be able to get a copy,the records short of a court order are also the property of the medical clinic. They have an interest in preservation for insurance and lawsuits.If I had been the doctor, I would have called the cops.

[leftynyc]

26. Shrug

Doc should have called the police then. I honestly think this reflects FAR worse on the doctor than for donnie as you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that a patient doesn't have rights to their own records and who should have them. But feel free to make a big deal out of it. I think it's merely an interesting anecdote and ultimately means zero in the scheme of things.

[John Fante]

55. When it comes to normalizing Trump

everyone gets in on the act. SMH.

[Cold War Spook]

75. I'm sorry,

I couldn't find where Trump went into the doctor's office and took his medical records. My wife can not see of take my medical records without written consent. My VA doctors can see my records on HealtheVet but my non-VA doctors have to have my written consent. It is a big deal.

[leftynyc]

79. I think anyone who is counting

on donnie saying Shiller didn't have his permission to get the records is barking up the wrong tree. It's a far bigger deal that the doctor spoke about drugs donnie was taking (although if it was in response to when he wrote that idiotic letter, it could be argued it was part of his medical opinion about donnie's health).

[Cold War Spook]

81. They didn't give a writtern consent form

so what they did was illegal. Even if they show the doctor one now, what they did was still illegal.

[Blackjackdavey]

89. The doctor's practice

does continue to come off as substandard in this story. I run a clinic and this simply would be an impossible scenario given that we run a 21st century clinic a) with electronic records and b) zero possibility of anyone entering the old paper chartroom without being allowed entry. People do have the right to access their records, we give out copies all the time. We also have lawyers, law enforcement and parents court ordered to stay away from their children showing up at the window and summarily turned away nearly as often. People do not under any circumstances have any right to confiscate their records or destroy them completely. To be honest, many people may not realize this -- Trump certainly doesn't, in this day and age it is nearly impossible to destroy your records, especially here in New York, because everyone's records are uploaded electronically to the cloud. Fodder for a whole new thread I imagine.

[True Blue American]

53. As I posted

No one releases records unless a waiver by the patient is signed. Even another Doctor.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

54. This is thuggish mob-style behavior the way I'm reading it.

Could this doctor Bornstein be called before the medical board for allowing this without protest?

Could the attorney Garten be held liable for taking part in this illegal action?

The real shame is that most likely, no complaints or charges will ever be filed because they're afraid of tRump.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

62. Oh, and thank you for sharing that expertise.

It's good for us all to be reminded of those rules. Never the originals, just copies after proper request. Every time I've asked for mine, I have to sign a release form and then sometimes must make a second trip to get the copies. A lot of trouble but it is the proper thing to do to protect patient privacy.

......

[True Blue American]

38. It is illegal to take files

From a Hospital or Medical office. Those original files belong to the Doctor or Hospital, not the patient. They stole them.

[kacekwl]

57. You're kidding right ?

[pnwmom]

70. What is LEGAL about the thugs going through the doctor's paper files,

looking for DT's files -- which were hidden in various names DT used?

If the thugs themselves took the files, which is how all the articles sound, then they violated the HIPPA rights of every other person in the office.

[angrychair]

94. They didn't ask for them, they took them

They came “behind the counter” as it were...your doctor’s office manager let’s you go through their files? Mine would not in a million years...likely get arrested.

[DownFromTheMountain]

102. *

*

[Volaris]

49. Ya that's NOT how you do request for release of medical information...

If anybody else pulled that kinda HIPAA violation, HHS would put that anybody in prison.

[leftynyc]

5. So what?

Donnie is entitled to his own medical records and sent these guys to get them. What's the story?

[GusBob]

9. By law, by federal law, medical records may not be released without a signed consent

You cant have people just come and seize them.

It is privileged information, and private.

The Dr, on the other hand, should never have told what meds he gave the patient. He was in violation too

[leftynyc]

10. I don't see where they didn't have

the authority and if they didn't, wouldn't we have heard about it LONG before now? And yes, the doctor screwed up big and I would have dumped him also for that very reason.

[GusBob]

15. Without a signed record release, signed by the patient, there is no authority

it must be documented. I worked in the medical field for decades, this is a huge thing

Think about it, otherwise cops, lawyers, someone's family, insurance companies, could claim the authority to seize medical records.

[leftynyc]

20. Not exactly

This guy had been working with donnie for years already so it's not the same as the police or anyone else just turning up and demanding the records. Honestly, this is nothing and we shouldn't let it distract us.

[GusBob]

31. Let me try a different approach, from my personal experience

This is a true story.

A 18 y.o patient got stoned at work and injured himself. He told this to our Dr while being treated for the injury. He didnt want to file for workmans comp because he knew he would be drug tested.

His mother, on the other hand, hit the roof for the bill, and wanted to file a claim.

His mother, who had known the patient for his entire life, not just for years, demanded his records.

so by your view she should get them?

[leftynyc]

34. No - they weren't HER records

and her son was of age.

[GusBob]

41. Yay! you get it!

Keith Schiller is not the patient. is he?

Glad we cleared that up

[leftynyc]

76. You don't think he

ha donnie's permission to get the records? You think he took it upon himself to raid that doctor's office. Sorry, the son already denied the request in your example which makes them NOT THE SAME AT ALL.

[GusBob]

90. Good lord dude

What part of a signed consent form for records release, signed by the patient, don't you understand?

Its required by law, HIPAA, to release a patients records. You don't just "give permission", its a legal document that must be placed in the patients chart indicating that the records have been transferred.

You have been told this like 5 different times in this thread. What is your problem in understanding this?

[leftynyc]

106. I'm assuming he did have the proper forms

Which I've stated before so I don't give a crap he wanted his records. It's the taking of the pictures off the wall which is the real problem. That's theft. I also don't think the average person is going to give a crap. And no biggie but it's dudette.

[GusBob]

107. Oh it gets worse than the average person could ever imagine

There was actually no permission at all from the patient. The story as it is being presented:
1. The Dr blabbed to the press about the hair drug
2. Someone from the WH called and said you're fired
3. The WH Dr. Jackson wrote and said he was taking over the care of the patient. No consent form was provided. This Dr apparently was a drunk and a pill pusher, even so he should have known better about a records release ( in the military they are not needed often, perhaps he didn't know. Or was high)
4. The WH goons showed up and stole the original records. The original records belong to the Dr and the clinic. The pt is entitled to copies with a signed consent. (I checked with our old office, our form was printed name, signed name dated and witnessed by a third person who also signed). I diont think they took the ptcure they asked hime to take it off the wall
5. Now-get this- the drunken WH Dr claimed in his press conference that he didn't have access to the previous medical records. They may have been lost, or even worse, destroyed

at no time during this was there any indication at all from the patient to the Dr that he wanted the old records

There are reasons they have these privacy laws

[uppityperson]

98. Did he have a signed consent? If not, it was illegal.

If they did have a signed consent from trump, they needed to wait to be given copies. Taking them without permission of the doctor was illegal.

[leftynyc]

105. Perhaps

It was illegal. I simply don't give a crap about this in light of the hundreds of other offenses and don't think your average American will either. I

[uppityperson]

109. Being a healthcare professional, I do give a crap. Beyond potential HIPAA violation, state law requi

health care providers to keep records for a # of yrs. In NY, the original record is the property of the provider for 6 yrs. Even the president cannot simply take the originals. They certainly can get a copy, but who can get or see that copy is limited by HIPAA.

Do you remember when employers could call drs offices to get info on their employees? I do. I worked in a clinic and denied such requests because it's not ok to tell an employer who had gotten an abortion or what someone's medications were without their permission. However, it was within the clinic's legal right to share it. It's not legal now.

HIPAA also set legalities about sharing info about someone between different health care people, places, saying what needed to be shared, could be shared, and was limited.

It's not perfect but but better than it was. It might seem small potatoes compared to all the other stuff gong on, but many of us do give a crap.

[procon]

30. That 'authority' still requires a legal stipulation, a general power of attorney

that gives broad powers to a person designated to act on someone's behalf. Trump didn't do that because re didn't want anyone -- like a lawyer -- to know he was planning to commit a crime. He never wanted his medical records, he wanted to purge the evidence health, to eliminate everything, so he robbed his doctor's office and stole the whole file.

[get the red out]

61. EXACTLY to purge the records

Trump could have easily, and legally obtained a copy of his records, but operation appears to be about taking the records from the Doctor and making sure they never see the light of day under any circumstances.

[Thekaspervote]

80. Beat me to it! Dotard ordered them to do it..

[True Blue American]

39. You are right on the hair

Growth medicine. The Doctor was wrong but those records belong to the Doctor..

Wonder what they had to hide? Trump did not escape his personal Vietnam? He had a Venetian disease?

[GusBob]

46. Trump is obsessed with his hair. He views baldness as a weakness

It is an over-the-top obsession. His Dr should have known better than to blab about it

what they were trying to hide is his bald spot, his weakness

[True Blue American]

51. I think there is much more to hide

Pill popping,etc!

[Kali]

52. bald SPOT?

more like bald head and a spot of hair he grows out to swirl over his MOSTLY BALD head.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

78. A Venetian disease?

Is that where your canals overflow and flood your town square?

[Orange Free State]

99. It also can leave you blind! N/T

[herding cats]

12. The story is the how and why of the retrieval.

There's also the supposed lack of HIPAA release forms required by law, but I don't see that as a big deal unless the files weren't delivered to Trump.

It also shows how things work in the Trump WH.

The story also quotes Bornstein recalling that he had told Rhona Graff, Trump's longtime assistant, "You know, I should be the White House physician."

After the story ran on February 1, 2017, Bornstein said Graff called him and said, "So you wanted to be the White House doctor? Forget it, you're out.' "

It's a glimpse of how people are treated by Trump and dismissed (even after 35 years) without a glance back if you dare offend him.

[leftynyc]

17. Any NYer could have told you

that about donnie - he has no friends and is loyal only to himself and Ivanka. All it would have taken was one phone call (and as far as either of us know, it was made) to donnie saying it was okay for his employees to pick up the records. The doctor screwed up the HIPAA laws himself by divulging the drug he took (for hair loss I think). Years ago, I walked into a doctor's office and demanded my records (I saw they were overcharging insurance company for treatment) - they turned them right over (perhaps dad being a malpractice lawyer had something to do with that).

[herding cats]

35. Oh, I'm sure the state of New York knew how he rolls...

Sadly, not enough of the rest of the country did before he was elected, though. Which makes these types of revelations pertinent information as just who is in the WH.

[procon]

13. Yes, any patient can get COPIES of their medical records, but they are not

entitled to take the originals. As a matter of permanent record for medical, financial, insurance and legal evidence, all those primary documents belong to the provider of record.

What Trump's thugs did was a robbery.

[herding cats]

22. That's interesting.

I didn't know you couldn't take the originals, but now that I think about it I've only ever been given copies of my records when I've requested them.

[procon]

37. Patients can also physically examine and look at their original files.

Some reports just don't lend themselves to copying, or the quality might make the copy illegible, so the patient may want to make notes or even take photos. Or they just want to double check that they got everything.

The copying service also comes with a cost, and that can got a bit pricey if the patient also wants copies of xrays or imaging scans.

[Sunlei]

32. Thugs invaded Doctors office and took (stole!) the original records. eviction from 'free' 5th st is

next.

[niyad]

7. this is the doc who wrote that phony bs report on him last year?

hey, doc, quit using words (rape) that you do not understand.

[Cracklin Charlie]

8. After installation as "president"?

Do those records belong to the patient?

Isn’t that a violation of some law? Oh, right...

I wonder what would happen if today, out of office, Barack Obama sent some thugs to his doctor’s office to grab his records?

Fox would run it as breaking news for a month.

[leftynyc]

11. WTF are you talking about?

ANY patient is entitled to the own medical records from ANY of their doctors.

[exboyfil]

19. A copy not the office owned paperwork short of a Court Order

[True Blue American]

42. Right!

Copy.

[bucolic_frolic]

21. Entitled to a COPY of their own medical records

The health care provider owns the records, notes, documentation that was made in treating the patient.

Yes patients are entitled to them, to copies of them. But not to the originals.

You keep posting the same idea that patients can seize their records. Why don't you try it?

[leftynyc]

24. I did

and they handed them right over. Of course, they knew dad was a malpractice lawyer (they were, I felt, fraudulently making charges to my and of course, my insurance company) and I told them I would never let them touch me again and demanded my records.

[atreides1]

36. Uh huh

And the fact that they knew your father was a malpractice lawyer, had nothing to do with their compliance with your demand?

[erronis]

25. LeftyNY: you seem obsessed by this. I work with EHR/EMR, HIPAA, PHI/PII

There are a ton of reasons someone can't open a file drawer and start hauling out paper copies. Besides the folders/papers aren't the only versions of these documents.

Edited to refer to LeftyNY

[leftynyc]

29. Obsessed?

I'm answering people who responded to my post. If that equals obsession in your eyes, it would explain why this nothing story nobody is going to give a crap about has your hair on fire.

[Cracklin Charlie]

43. Why the thugs, then?

No need for profanity...I was just asking a question.

[Sunlei]

27. trumps hiding some addiction problem. No worries for him Americans have to pay for his healthcare

even if he's addicted to something the WH Doctor will take best care of anything.

[True Blue American]

56. Yes

Addiction.he has Doctor Feelgood, AKA as Ronny Jackson.

[Happyhippychick]

28. How lucky for him that this is the most "raped" feeling he's ever had

How dare he make that kind of comparison.

Fucking asshole.

[TNLib]

33. Weird, I doubt it was about his hair.

Makes you wonder what they're trying to hide.

[Kittycow]

40. This reminds me of the Mccain campaign thugs

swarming into the family home of Levi Johnston, Bristol Palin's boyfriend and (alleged to some) Baby Daddy.

The way I remember Mercedes Johnston's account, the workers seized their computers or wiped the files or something like that, to eliminate any trace of the Palins. They lost all their own family pictures, etc.

It's been a while, so I may be misremembering the details but that was the gist of it.

[True Blue American]

45. Most records

Are online now. I can sign in,read my own, but that does not mean I can steal them.

There is still paperwork. My Doctor retired. Found a new Doctor, but they could not read my records until I signed a release.

[fleur-de-lisa]

47. Quick! Someone show Dr Bornstein the artist's rendering of the thug who threatened

Stormy Daniels! Prolly the same guy!

Seriously, can this shit show get any weirder? JFC! We are now a third world country.

[avebury]

48. He should have asked them to produce a Power of Attorney signed by Trump

or a medical release from Trump authorizing them to take the records. If they could not produce them I would have told them to go away and not return until they have the proper documents. If they refused to leave I would have called the police on them and asked that they be escorted out or arrested for trespassing.

[greymattermom]

50. My guess is that he takes a few things

Viagra
Antivirals for Herpes and HPV
Prescription stimulants, maybe diet pills

and a few other things.

[Jose Garcia]

64. If he is taking diet pills they are not working

[Marie Marie]

91. And, if he is taking Propecia - it is not working either.

[get the red out]

67. NO

If he's on diet pills those are the most ineffective damned things anyone ever took!

[They_Live]

58. Did he call the police? n/t

[Mr. Sparkle]

60. Well not only does Donald think hes above the law, but he also acts like it.

smh

[FailureToCommunicate]

63. So, having some files taken...is like 'being raped'?

Last edited Tue May 1, 2018, 04:58 PM - Edit history (2)

(Edited to remove a reference to Obama's comment to Mitt Romney that suggested Mitt would get into more trouble if he kept talking, but reference seemed to be being taken wrongly)

[procon]

73. When someone broke into my house, I felt that way too.

Don't mock what you don't understand. I am a rape survivor and I felt the same way when my home was burglarized. I felt just as violated and vulnerable, scared and nervous, it was like reliving everything again. I wasn't home when it happened -- I can't even go there! -- but my home felt invaded, strange, unclean and creepy, and if I didn't own it, I would have moved. I slept at my dad's house for a long time, tossed a lot of things that were touched by the robbers and the cops, repainted, basically started over. Robbery has a terrible effect on people and I wouldn't wish that feeling on anyone.

[FailureToCommunicate]

77. Never been raped, but I've been robbed numerous times. It was bad, but i really doubt it's as

horrible as being raped.

I was merely trying to point out that the doctor was probably overblowing the awfulness of the office break in. It wasn't his home, and they only took some files.

Sorry that what happened to was so distressing.

[procon]

82. Why would you doubt my experience and imply that I'm lying!?

You're trying to normalize a robbery and you're mocking the victim's fear as "overblown". Maybe the doctor has never been raped either, but as he said, he felt just as violated, vulnerable and frightened by what happened to him. Sure, it's his office and not his home and the stuff they stole maybe wasn't as important as a TV, so you're saying the crime doesn't count the same as a home invasion robbery, yeah? WTF is wrong with you?

[FailureToCommunicate]

93. I did not imply anything of the sort.

I'm not doubting YOUR experience at all. I was commenting, as others have on this thread, that it seems way overblown of the doctor to try to equate an office break in with sexual violation.
Sheesh.

[mainer]

86. the privacy of other patients was violated too

What if your medical records were also taken by those goons? Do you want to be blackmailed because your medical secrets are out there in the hands of Trump thugs? We simply don't know what else they got their hands on.

[Still In Wisconsin]

65. I wonder what they say? Probably that TRUMP weighs about 310# and is on amphetamines...

er, I mean DIET PILLS.

[duforsure]

71. Exactly what I was thinking

And desperately trying to hide his possible drug use, and addiction. Didn't Hitler also have a drug problem?

[Still In Wisconsin]

83. Yes, Hitler is said to have used cocaine, opiates, and methamphetamine.

In Nazi Germany methamphetamine was passed out like candy, especially to military personnel, under the trade name "Pervitin."

See:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/crystal-meth-origins-link-back-to-nazi-germany-and-world-war-ii-a-901755.html

[Jose Garcia]

66. Are there still doctors who aren't using electronic med records?

[Firestorm49]

68. Huh?

Why didn’t he call the police? No warrant for the material? Sounds fishy.

[kag]

69. "and another 'large man'"

Hmm. I wonder if that third man looked anything like this...



What are the odds?

[Dave Starsky]

72. What would happen if I went to my doctor's office...

And went and helped myself to my medical records? Anyone? I see Cindy raising her hand. Yes, Cindy.

Why, they'd call the cops, and you'd be arrested, Detective Starsky!

That's right, Cindy. They'd call the cops, and I'd be arrested.

[Ilsa]

74. No, "feeling raped" carries with it fear of STDs, pregnancy,

fear of trying to end pregnancy, fear of rapist returning, hypervigilance, etc. If he's feeling all of that, then they took more than medical files.

[HopeAgain]

84. No Question here - This was an illegal seizure

This is my area of training - the actual record BELONGS TO THE DOCTOR. Trump has some control over who the information in the chart is released to, but the actual paper record is not Trump's property. This doctor can, and should, sue for a civil rights violation because I am sure they purported to be officially acting on behalf of the POTUS.

[Dave Starsky]

96. You are absolutely right about this.

The medical record is the property of the caregiver. As a patient, you have the right to inspect your information and request amendments or corrections, but you do NOT have the right to physically carry your records away. It is crazy that they did this.

[Corgigal]

97. Should consult NYPD

for a burglary. We're getting closer to watergate daily. Except this doctor wasn't a psychiatrist.

NY doctor better be able to prove this allegation, could lose his license.

[mainer]

85. Dr. Bornstein not guilty of violating patient/doc confidentiality

because Trump supposedly gave him permission to publicly certify his health. Doesn't that give Dr. Bornstein the right to disclose Trump's use of Propecia to the public?

[uppityperson]

100. There is a huge difference between certifying someone's health and stealing records.

[mainer]

108. I'm not arguing that. Bornstein's being accused of violation of HIPAA

merely because he revealed Trump's use of Propecia.

(Confiscating the doctor's records is another thing entirely, and the violation there would be by Trump's goons.)

[uppityperson]

110. If Bornstein revealed Trump's use of any med without Trump's approval, it violates HIPAA

I remember working in a clinic pre-HIPAA and getting requests from employers, and people wanting to check out potential romantic interests (seriously) as to meds and other health info on someone without their permission.

HIPAA limits what info can, cannot, and should, be shared with whom.

[mainer]

111. Right, but Bornstein was authorized BY TRUMP to issue a "candidate's health" report to the public

Medications are usually included in a Presidential health assessment.

When Obama's health was reported to the public (ironically enough, by Dr. Ronnie Jackson), it included medications.

[uppityperson]

112. The person gets to decide what to be allowed to be shared. If he didn't say that med, it's a

a violation.

[MineralMan]

87. Nice office you got here, Doc.

It would be a shame should something, you know, happen to it...

[red dog 1]

88. He felt "raped, frightened and sad"?

K&R

[procon]

95. When my home was robbed, that's exactly how I felt too.

Sad. Why is this so hard to understand... is it a guy thing?

[briv1016]

92. They where probably records from a mental health assessment.

Can't risk those getting out.

[Orange Free State]

101. Given Trump's proclivity for barebacking porn stars

I speculate that he is covering up treatment for HSV. Also, with his incoherent tweets late at night and paranoia, he may have been speeding his ass off in a futile attempt to lose weight. He seemed to quit the late night stuff about the same time he began to pack on more pounds, so maybe he was cut off for his own good about that time. I have seen all this before, classic pattern.
This doctor may be a bad person for Trump to turn on. He knows a lot and could start leaking things. Actually I hope he does.

[rocktivity]

103. To hell with all that legal stuff

Did the hair growth medicine work?


rocktivity

[riversedge]

104. More examples of Trump thugery.

Link to tweet

[lanlady]

113. Where does Trump find these people?

Quack doctors like Bornstein; mobster lawyers like Cohen; dirt bags (literally and figuratively) like Bannon; clownish politicians like Devin Nunez... the list is never-ending. I guess if you’re a bottom-feeder like Trump, your closest neighbors are the pond scum.