UPDATED Poland offers US up to $2B for permanent military base

[DonViejo]

Source: Politico



Warsaw wants American boots on ground as protection against Russia.

By EDYTA ŻEMŁA AND KAMIL TURECKI 5/27/18, 10:05 PM CET Updated 5/27/18, 11:16 PM CET

Poland wants a permanent U.S. military presence — and is willing to pony up as much as $2 billion to get it, according to a defense ministry proposal obtained by Polish news portal Onet.

The Polish offer reflects a long-standing desire in Warsaw to build closer security relations with the U.S. and put American boots on the ground. The push dates back to Poland’s entry into NATO in 1999, but has taken on added urgency in the wake of Russia’s annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea region four years ago and aggressive posture toward the alliance.

Coming just over a month before NATO leaders gather in Brussels for a summit, the Polish initiative is bound to anger Russia, and will be looked at with skepticism by European allies that want to improve relations with Moscow, such as Italy and at times Germany.

‘Clear and present need’

“This proposal outlines the clear and present need for a permanent U.S. armored division deployed in Poland, Poland’s commitment to provide significant support that may reach $1.5-2 billion by establishing joint military installations and provide for more flexible movement of U.S. forces,” the defense ministry document states.

Read more: https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-poland-offers-us-up-to-2-billion-for-permanent-american-military-base/

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UPDATE

Russia knocks reports of Poland seeking permanent US military presence inside its borders

BY KYLE BALLUCK - 05/28/18 08:25 AM EDT

Russia on Monday reportedly knocked reports that Poland wants to secure a permanent U.S. military presence inside its borders.

“When we see the gradual expansion of NATO military structures towards our borders..., this of course in no way creates security and stability on the continent,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, according to Reuters.

Poland's defense minister said earlier Monday that he discussed permanently stationing thousands of U.S. troops in Poland that are currently there on a temporary mission with American officials, The Associated Press reported. Defense Minister Mariusz Blaszczak said the U.S. Senate has been in touch with the Pentagon on the issue, the news service added.

It also pointed to a report in Poland that said as much as $2 billion is being pledged to support the permanent U.S. troops.

more
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/389604-russia-knocks-reports-of-poland-seeking-permanent-us-military-presence-in-its

[Glorfindel]

1. That's not nearly enough. Why, Wisconsin offered Foxconn $3 billion to come to their state

and all they do is make stuff. If the Poles want American soldiers to fight and die for them, they need to up the ante considerably. We're not in "business" for our health, after all.

[TomVilmer]

2. Problem has normally not been how to get a US military base...

... problem is how to get rid of it again.
http://sciencenordic.com/denmark%E2%80%99s-cold-war-struggle-scientific-control-greenland

[Jake Stern]

3. Not just no but hell no

The US doesn't need to post even more troops overseas.

[groundloop]

4. US troops in over 150 countries and bases in over 70 countries - WHY?

Our 'military presence' in all those countries all over the world is costing US taxpayers far too much, and what good is it?

[Jake Stern]

5. Bu. . bu. . Russia!!!!!!

Sarcasm aside I totally agree.

With certain exceptions, such as Korea, we need to bring our troops home.

Bloated military with a bloated budget needs something to justify itself.

[fountainofyouth]

8. Withdraw our troops from Germany and South Korea and then you'll see what good it is! n/t

[Jake Stern]

9. I can see Korea but not Germany

Yeah, I forgot Russia is gonna roll into Berlin any day now.

[fountainofyouth]

10. Of course Russia would not invade

Invasion is the costliest and least practical option and was done in Ukraine only as a last resort after other means had failed.

The effect on Germany is just as important as the effect on Russia if we withdraw. Germany's national security policy since the end of the Cold War (and West Germany's since 1945) has been founded on the assumption that the U.S. would have an immediate ability to deter and, if necessary, repel military action locally. Take that away and you have a country with shockingly little defense infrastructure.

Germany would have two options to fill this gap in their policy: rearm, or ally with Russia. The first option would defeat the whole achievement of post-WWII European peace. The second would give Russia greater influence in Europe without needing to invade.

[Jake Stern]

13. An EU unified force could be formed to fill the gap

But Germany remains committed to shouldering none of the burden of defending themselves.

You may enjoy blowing big taxpayer bucks to ensure that we keep thousands of American troops in Germany but I say BRING THEM HOME.

[blkyank1]

17. Then why not ....

Take up Poland on its basing offer and move our guys out of Germany.

Taking US troops out of Europe is only putting at risk the very peace the Europeans
failed to secure for themselves in 1914 and 1939. The fact we have not had a major
European war ( A fairly regular thing for 300 years until the aftermath of the Napoleonic Wars)
in 75 years, mostly due to the presence of US troops and our nuclear umbrella simply can't be
denied. Nobody wants to BLOW TAXPAYER BUCKS to shoulder Germany's burden of defending
itself, but even fewer Americans want to pay the cost in American lives that would be spent if we had to send yet another American Army "Over there" to prevent a land grab from a would-be hegemon.

[Jake Stern]

18. If Europe can't defend themselves

Then shame on them.

You betcha the second American troops are pulled out of Europe the tanks will be rolling in.



Let's assure our children have what they need by letting Europeans man up and take care of their own defense. That money is needed HERE not making it so Gunter doesn't have to get his hands dirty or to prevent the boogeyman aka the New Nee Hitler from invading.

[LanternWaste]

19. As opposed to the sovereignty as practiced today by the Crimea and Georgia.

"I forgot Russia is gonna roll into Berlin any day now...."

As opposed to the full, free and fair sovereignty as practiced today by the Crimea and Georgia. And potentially the Ukraine soon.

Else... we are forced to realize that every instance is different, and stop pretending A=B simply because false equivalencies may support our own biases.

With or without sarcasm, wedding yourself to an absolutism of result eventually leads to more, rather than fewer, flawed premises.

[DBoon]

6. Poland is vey familiar with invasions and occupations

I trust their experience on this one

[Cold War Spook]

7. I got that Poland wants an American base there.

When I read the headline, I was trying to figure out why Poland wants a military base in America.

[dembotoz]

11. Just b careful trump doesn't swindle Poland with a 2 billion dollar trump hotel

Look the doorman is in uniform...same thing

[TomVilmer]

12. Nobody cares about promises anymore...

... but NATO told Russia in 1997, that there would be no permanent stationing of substantial combat forces in that area: "NATO reiterates that in the current and foreseeable security environment, the Alliance will carry out its collective defence ... by ensuring the necessary ... capability for reinforcement rather than by additional permanent stationing of substantial combat forces. ... Russia will exercise similar restraint."
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_25468.htm

Since then everybody f*cked up and went back to fighting by proxy armies even in Europe, starting with the first borders changed by military means on Balkan, and latest with the continuing civil war in Ukraine. Here Russia invaded Crimea with anonymous soldiers to protect their naval base - in the same pattern USA used against Cuba in 1961. The big powers are still happily fighting on the land of somebody else outside their own borders...

[blue-wave]

14. Well Ummmm...

A country that is reinventing itself as a totalitarian state? Really? They are attempting to muzzle the free media and free speech.

Most recently they passed an "anti-defamation" law "making it a criminal offense for anyone (inside or outside of Poland) to accuse the Polish nation of complying or assisting the Nazis with their rampage of terror during the Second World War, despite overwhelming evidence...." This has caused quite a stir in the Jewish community.

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/poland-radical-right-alt-right-nationalism-europe-news-13241/

Then there is the ethnic cleansing (Operation Vistula, Akcja Wisla in Polish) of these people, forced from their ancestral, indigenous land and almost no one in the world knows of this, why? FYI, the link states that the ethnically cleansed people are Ukrainian. Indeed some do identify as such, but others claim a separate ethnicity and culture known as Lemko. Still others identify as Polish. Throughout the centuries, they have been referred to as White Croats, Ruthenians, Carpathian Rus, Rusnaks and Lemko. There are also Boykos, Dolinyans and Hutsuls in their ethnic group. It's a complicated story, but one that should be told none the less. Read the "final thoughts" in the link below.

http://www.lemko-olk.com/akcjawisla.php



All the above marching in step with a new nationalism.

I can't help but look at Poland today and think that Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin would be proud of the heavy handed tactics being used. Heck, even Stalin and Hitler are likely smiling from the grave. We need to think about this military base stuff very carefully.

[keithbvadu2]

15. Donald:::: 'You mean paid directly to me, right?'

[Xolodno]

16. Every dime we spend on a foreign military base...

...is one less dime here. Put a base in overseas, cut social services at home.

Poland want's the base because US personal will be spending money in their country, buying local resources to support the base, etc. They'll make that 2 billion back in no time.

All because of what? Russia? Yeah that's smart, lets throw in a base, so Russia can beef up its military on its border even more. If Russia put a military base in Mexico, I can almost guarantee you we will not have just a wall on the border, but ICE employee's would be out of jobs as they would be replaced by military.